How far away is IUBB from being elite again?

[JSHoosier 20,428]

6 minutes ago, tkbbn said:

Yes but PU has swag, sponsored by Carhartt and Muck boots. That is why they are ranked #1.

Well the cattle, I mean "coeds" aren't a big draw.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,623]

Wisconsin doesn’t have an offensive system anymore. They spread, pnr and kick like everyone else. And Purdue forces it into the paint more than we do, but their objective is awfully close to ours under woody. But they defend and knock sown shots. 

Disagree on Purdue. Offense is designed around personnel.

Last year they ran lots of actions for Stefanovich to run off screens to get shots. Lots of Ivey ISOs.

This year, it’s mostly the Edey show but until somebody stops him why not. They have Loyer taking a lot of 3s and some playmaking.

Ball movement and off ball movement is pretty solid for Purdue but this is Edey’s team and he’s been mostly unstoppable.

Despite all this, the Purdue shooting last few games has been abysmal and they are due for a loss. Seems like @OSU is the most likely time.


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[str8baller 5,514]

2 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Offense is designed around personnel.

Pretty much my point. There’s no system they plug n play every year.  
 

My guess is with TJD gone next season and if JHS stays, you’ll see a lot of perimeter oriented offense from IU. 
 

 

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

9 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Kind of reminds me of a book I read years ago, about how Disney World became Disney World. Short version: it didn't happen by cutting corners or people saying "eh, good enough." 

 

The uniform topic seems to pop up a few times each season, and it always seems to draw the same predictable responses. I wish we'd go back to the Crean-era uniforms. The ones we have now are just...bleh. 

 

The problem here, of course, is that you've got a fanbase that will fight tooth and nail to keep things the way they are. When the Big Ten mandated we put its logo on the court, we had fans who started an online petition to have it removed, saying it "ruined the purity of our sacred court." Then there was the outrage when Assembly Hall added Simon-Skjodt to its name, and another online petition (that went nowhere) for that. I could totally see new uniforms leading to a slew of angry letters (older fans who don't do social media) complaining about the new threads, saying things like "Bobby's teams didn't need fancy uniforms to win games, " etc. 

Thank you, @TheWatShot

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

New UM Volleyball swag?

[IUFAN1976 3,462]

18 hours ago, HoosierX said:

Bates is a marginal shooter who is a walking turnover and has a low IQ on defense. Starting him isn’t going to solve our problems.

Probably not but CMW needs to change it up. Mix up the rotations a little

[rcbowla 7,156]

Was thinking and have done zero fact checking or research so I could be way off here but I think Tom Crean was 1 player's decision away from having IU being elite and remaining that way. Victor Oladipo. Had Vic stayed for his 4th year as he had projected to initially and still developed like he had then Crean would possibly still be here. Think about the 13-14 team, that was a massive disappointment, if they would have had NPOY candidate VO. We had Vonleh, So. Yogi, Sheehey and Fr Troy along with some other pieces. Add VO as your alpha to that roster and what do you think happens? The next season would've been tricky at the 5 but you do also add Blackmon and Johnson to that team. So maybe 1 year of let down but then we know what happened the following year. Just a thought that tells possibly just how close we were not too long ago. I'm not suggesting Crean was the answer but had Oladipo stayed could he have made IU elite once again?

 

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[HoosierAloha 30,075]

1 hour ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

So my argument is how you do anything is how you do everything…. IU should take all aspects of the program seriously…. If IU actually ran the swag portion of its program like Ralph Lauren or Aimé Leon Dore and leveraged it to be elite, that implies that they are taking all aspects of its program elite…. It’s like special teams in football, elite teams have great Special teams…. Plus if IU generated $1M more per year in sales, each year that money could be used to get an elite wing, that then could make shots against Kansas. 

You have a point with how programs (companies, organizations, etc.) are run. Everyone should be held to the highest standards regardless if it's the head coach, best player, walk-on, GA, or the person running the varsity shop. (guy that used to run it was top notch) We don't have that standard at IU and it shows. I'm not big on how the unis look but if we need a change let's get it done. This program needs standards and to be held to them. It went out the window many decades ago and we'll defend our mediocre teams against "haters" to protect those who have turned it into a middling program.

Speaking of standards, good luck with the goon or toon squad with your comments. I can see they provided the example already.

[IU - Kaulie 1,891]

4 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

What I have been seeing is JHS is really our only “elite level” player right now. He seems so much faster and a step ahead of everyone else.  He brings the ball up fast and with a purpose.  Problem is he’s frequently waiting on the others to catch up. 

100%.  He is our best player and our only elite player with no question.

[Hovadipo 56,740]

17 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Speaking of standards, good luck with the goon or toon squad with your comments. I can see they provided the example already.

It costs zero dollars to quote us/me!

[tkbbn 504]

You want to be Elite? Win games, that is the bottom line. The rest will take care of itself.  Poking a little fun is all.

[HoosierAloha 30,075]

Just now, tkbbn said:

You want to be Elite? Win games, that is the bottom line. The rest will take care of itself.  Poking a little fun is all.

We won a few games at the end of last season (ignore the games we were embarrassed in) and brought a few high ranked recruits in = elite status. We did some typical off-season talking about hanging banners and whatnot too. Why can't we be elite this season when we did the things we needed to do to be elite!

Other programs added lower ranked recruits to proven systems and cultures. They're winning at a high level while we're trying to figure out why Rutger punked us again and why we forgot that we had to compete against actual elite teams.

[tkbbn 504]

I think you answered it when you said proven systems and cultures. Unfortunately we aren't there at the moment. I like everyone else here hopes we get there in the future. I'm not against bringing IU up to date at all but that won't make us elite but winning the big games consistently and deep runs in the tournament will. Until that happens we can keep dreaming.

[IU Scott 2,375]

2 hours ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

So my argument is how you do anything is how you do everything…. IU should take all aspects of the program seriously…. If IU actually ran the swag portion of its program like Ralph Lauren or Aimé Leon Dore and leveraged it to be elite, that implies that they are taking all aspects of its program elite…. It’s like special teams in football, elite teams have great Special teams…. Plus if IU generated $1M more per year in sales, each year that money could be used to get an elite wing, that then could make shots against Kansas. 

My god if this is the kind of things that the kids think about when choosing a school no wonder  the product on the court is so much worse today and than it use to be.

[IU Scott 2,375]

2 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Kind of reminds me of a book I read years ago, about how Disney World became Disney World. Short version: it didn't happen by cutting corners or people saying "eh, good enough." 

 

The uniform topic seems to pop up a few times each season, and it always seems to draw the same predictable responses. I wish we'd go back to the Crean-era uniforms. The ones we have now are just...bleh. 

 

The problem here, of course, is that you've got a fanbase that will fight tooth and nail to keep things the way they are. When the Big Ten mandated we put its logo on the court, we had fans who started an online petition to have it removed, saying it "ruined the purity of our sacred court." Then there was the outrage when Assembly Hall added Simon-Skjodt to its name, and another online petition (that went nowhere) for that. I could totally see new uniforms leading to a slew of angry letters (older fans who don't do social media) complaining about the new threads, saying things like "Bobby's teams didn't need fancy uniforms to win games, " etc. 

Tell you the truth I can't tell the difference in our uniforms because they have always looked the same to me . Only difference is the length of the shorts.

[Stuhoo 81,775]

36 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

You have a point with how programs (companies, organizations, etc.) are run. Everyone should be held to the highest standards regardless if it's the head coach, best player, walk-on, GA, or the person running the varsity shop. (guy that used to run it was top notch) We don't have that standard at IU and it shows. I'm not big on how the unis look but if we need a change let's get it done. This program needs standards and to be held to them. It went out the window many decades ago and we'll defend our mediocre teams against "haters" to protect those who have turned it into a middling program.

Speaking of standards, good luck with the goon or toon squad with your comments. I can see they provided the example already.

That’s “Mr. Goon Squad” to you.

All snarky-ness aside, IMO the swag and style matter; barely.

What matters a lot? Getting players to the NBA, team and coach impressions and chemistry, NIL, and effectiveness of sales pitch.

Other, lesser factors that still matter more than gear/swag/style? Proximity to family, basketball as the campus big ticket sport, tv/conference exposure, team style of play.

[IU Scott 2,375]

2 hours ago, str8baller said:

The answer to being elite is the same for IU as everyone else. You’re the right coach away. Very few bad programs can sustain bad coaches for more than a couple years.  
 

A great coach can win anywhere that’s a major or upper mid-major conference.   
 

Put Brad Stevens or Billy Donavan at IU and they’re back among the “elite” in 2-4 years. Nothing in college basketball takes more than 4 years. Bob Knight, Jim Calhoun, Rick Pitino, etc… didn’t need to slowly hit any multi-year steps to become elite. They just came in, built their teams and kicked @$$. 

Coach K, Dean Smith, John Wooden took at least 4 years before they had success. At Duke they almost fired coach K after his third year.

[HoosierAloha 30,075]

7 minutes ago, tkbbn said:

I think you answered it when you said proven systems and cultures. Unfortunately we aren't there at the moment. I like everyone else here hopes we get there in the future. I'm not against bringing IU up to date at all but that won't make us elite but winning the big games consistently and deep runs in the tournament will. Until that happens we can keep dreaming.

If we're "following the steps" we need to compete in the big games before we can hope to win them and we need to consistently be in the tourney before we can hope to have deep tourney runs.

You setup the culture and system to take those steps. When your best and most experienced players are still going through the motions it shows that it's acceptable. When your system is still lacking production you might want to make some changes to get it going. I guess we could wait until season 4 to determine if we can make some progress in these areas.

[kreigh8 2,101]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Coach K, Dean Smith, John Wooden took at least 4 years before they had success. At Duke they almost fired coach K after his third year.

Totally makes sense to compare coaching start from 40-50 years ago to Woodson in 2022. Game is totally the same

[HoosierAloha 30,075]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Coach K, Dean Smith, John Wooden took at least 4 years before they had success. At Duke they almost fired coach K after his third year.

Didn't someone earlier mention about getting into the 2020s instead of living in the 1970s? This is a solid representation of that statement. Goodness.