How far away is IUBB from being elite again?

[southernindianahoosier2 1,056]

4 hours ago, rcs29 said:

Was thinking and have done zero fact checking or research so I could be way off here but I think Tom Crean was 1 player's decision away from having IU being elite and remaining that way. Victor Oladipo. Had Vic stayed for his 4th year as he had projected to initially and still developed like he had then Crean would possibly still be here. Think about the 13-14 team, that was a massive disappointment, if they would have had NPOY candidate VO. We had Vonleh, So. Yogi, Sheehey and Fr Troy along with some other pieces. Add VO as your alpha to that roster and what do you think happens? The next season would've been tricky at the 5 but you do also add Blackmon and Johnson to that team. So maybe 1 year of let down but then we know what happened the following year. Just a thought that tells possibly just how close we were not too long ago. I'm not suggesting Crean was the answer but had Oladipo stayed could he have made IU elite once again?

 

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I don't think VO staying would have changed much. Crean's ceiling seems to be the S16. And now he's out of coaching entirely. Also heard rumors about Crean making comments about Oladipo's dad and losing the locker room because of it. 

[southernindianahoosier2 1,056]

4 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

You have a point with how programs (companies, organizations, etc.) are run. Everyone should be held to the highest standards regardless if it's the head coach, best player, walk-on, GA, or the person running the varsity shop. (guy that used to run it was top notch) We don't have that standard at IU and it shows. I'm not big on how the unis look but if we need a change let's get it done. This program needs standards and to be held to them. It went out the window many decades ago and we'll defend our mediocre teams against "haters" to protect those who have turned it into a middling program.

Speaking of standards, good luck with the goon or toon squad with your comments. I can see they provided the example already.

To TheWatShots point... Do you think Disney built the castle, and then went out and got crappy hot dog vendors and said "eh, this is good enough"? No they took a look at EVERYTHING, even the paint in their parks, EVERYTHING is held to a very high standard. Thats why people pay top $ to take their families there. IU Admin is the best at claiming their "Elite" and then cutting every conceivable corner to get there. 

[cthomas 6,618]

As much as I hate Purdue, Matt Painter is a top ten coach in the nation. He takes kids that usually we don't want and turns them into a team that is very successful. We can joke about them not having won a national championship, but if he keeps putting the type of teams he has the last few years on the floor, the championship is coming. We think we can't be elite until we have elite talent. Who on Purdue's roster was considered elite coming out of high school? It can be done without five star kids. I'm sick of seeing Purdue do it when we can't.

[HoosierAloha 30,102]

2 hours ago, HoosierTrav said:

maybe in Europe… he’s not an NBA player. Arizona’s bigs played a lot like how he would expect them to play in the NBA and he was completely outclassed. I love Trayce but he’s a great college player and a G-League/European prospect. I’ll be shocked if he ends up on an NBA roster for more than a 2day. 

Point being he's comfortable, the NIL money is icing. He's good with being the big fish in the small pond because it's what he knows. If he was at an elite program that forced development I could see him getting some run in the NBA. He would absolutely be a pro at some level.

[southernindianahoosier2 1,056]

3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I don't mind change if it makes things better. I actually think it would have been best to put money on a new arena instead of renovating AH. I think we need to have the student section all together going all the way around the first 10 rows. I just found it odd people thinking uniforms are a reason for us not being elite

 

Agree with you on New Arena at a minimum we should at least update the student seating... How many more games could IU have won with the student section covering the lower bowl in the last 5-10 years? 

I'm saying we're not elite because we don't hold the "Program" and "Program meaning all aspects (including uniforms) to the highest standard. If you want to win a championship take a look at all of the best programs of the last 10-15 years. How many of those programs are saying "okay uniforms don't matter", "Practice facility doesn't matter", "We don't need a practice schedule" (which Crean didn't have), "We don't need to update our student section". What was the first thing Michigan football did when they wanted to become elite? Hired Harbaugh, and what was one of the first things after that? The moved from Adidas to JumpMan. Everything matters when the difference between "Elite" and "good" are separated by the smallest things. 

If you had physical evidence in front of you that said "If we were sponsored by Nike we'd have had Kyrie Irving, or other Elite level guards" would you still be saying uniforms don't matter? 

[IU Scott 2,375]

8 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

Agree with you on New Arena at a minimum we should at least update the student seating... How many more games could IU have won with the student section covering the lower bowl in the last 5-10 years? 

I'm saying we're not elite because we don't hold the "Program" and "Program meaning all aspects (including uniforms) to the highest standard. If you want to win a championship take a look at all of the best programs of the last 10-15 years. How many of those programs are saying "okay uniforms don't matter", "Practice facility doesn't matter", "We don't need a practice schedule" (which Crean didn't have), "We don't need to update our student section". What was the first thing Michigan football did when they wanted to become elite? Hired Harbaugh, and what was one of the first things after that? The moved from Adidas to JumpMan. Everything matters when the difference between "Elite" and "good" are separated by the smallest things. 

If you had physical evidence in front of you that said "If we were sponsored by Nike we'd have had Kyrie Irving, or other Elite level guards" would you still be saying uniforms don't matter? 

I have been watching sports for over 50 years and I see the top football programs still wearing the same uniforms. Alabama, PSU, Georgia, USC, ND,OSU, Clemson, LSU. A couple of them might have an alternative but they pretty much had the same uniforms. 

Yes most definitely that uniforms doesn't matter

[southernindianahoosier2 1,056]

Just now, IU Scott said:

I have been watching sports for over 50 years and I see the top football programs still wearing the same uniforms. Alabama, PSU, Georgia, USC, ND,OSU, Clemson, LSU. A couple of them might have an alternative but they pretty much had the same uniforms.

And it shows your age. No offense, but you're severely disconnected from the reality of this one. If you don't believe me, go into an open gym with kids under 18, and count how much adidas vs nike vs under armor are represented. You'll find 95% nike/Jordan 4% UA and close to 0% Adidas...  Kids don't want to wear it. This isn't European soccer... As far as the Jerseys not changing.. You do realize how much R&D and technology has been advanced in even the last 5 years in terms of materials, fit, etc. Alabama may not "Change their jerseys" but the materials have advanced. Nike spent $353Million in R&D last year, I could not find R&D expense listed on Adidas 10K.... Plus you're not accounting the Nike bags, sweats, tanks, hoodies, shoes, socks, shirts, that Nike is providing those athletes. Thats what matters to the kids... 

I firmly believe your take is wrong here. 

[IU Scott 2,375]

4 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

And it shows your age. No offense, but you're severely disconnected from the reality of this one. If you don't believe me, go into an open gym with kids under 18, and count how much adidas vs nike vs under armor are represented. You'll find 95% nike/Jordan 4% UA and close to 0% Adidas...  Kids don't want to wear it. This isn't European soccer... As far as the Jerseys not changing.. You do realize how much R&D and technology has been advanced in even the last 5 years in terms of materials, fit, etc. Alabama may not "Change their jerseys" but the materials have advanced. Nike spent $353Million in R&D last year, I could not find R&D expense listed on Adidas 10K.... Plus you're not accounting the Nike bags, sweats, tanks, hoodies, shoes, socks, shirts, that Nike is providing those athletes. Thats what matters to the kids... 

I firmly believe your take is wrong here. 

I don't care how old I am which is 52 and you can never convince me that what uniforms you wear makes an ounce if difference. If a kid chooses a school for their uniforms then those type of kids I don't want near my team.

I am sorry to say this but I think you are pretty much cluess when it comes to what makes a great team or program.  

[southernindianahoosier2 1,056]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I don't care how old I am which is 52 and you can never convince me that what uniforms you wear makes an ounce if difference. If a kid chooses a school for their uniforms then those type of kids I don't want near my team.

[Golfman25 6,760]

12 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

Agree with you on New Arena at a minimum we should at least update the student seating... How many more games could IU have won with the student section covering the lower bowl in the last 5-10 years? 

I'm saying we're not elite because we don't hold the "Program" and "Program meaning all aspects (including uniforms) to the highest standard. If you want to win a championship take a look at all of the best programs of the last 10-15 years. How many of those programs are saying "okay uniforms don't matter", "Practice facility doesn't matter", "We don't need a practice schedule" (which Crean didn't have), "We don't need to update our student section". What was the first thing Michigan football did when they wanted to become elite? Hired Harbaugh, and what was one of the first things after that? The moved from Adidas to JumpMan. Everything matters when the difference between "Elite" and "good" are separated by the smallest things. 

If you had physical evidence in front of you that said "If we were sponsored by Nike we'd have had Kyrie Irving, or other Elite level guards" would you still be saying uniforms don't matter? 

Dude, Michigan football was elite well before Harbaugh.  They had a few down years in the mid 2000s, but never lost the momentum like IU basketball did with the Sampson debacle.  

And you just can call yourself elite because you hold the program to "elite standards."  If you have to call yourself elite, are you?  

One player doesn't make a team elite.  And you're now not talking about uniforms but sponsors.  Completely different.  The uniform comments where in regard to the look of the uniform, not the sponsor.  

[DChoosier 9,795]

11 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Yes IU has the NIL funds.    I would be worried about the lack of wings in the class then I would have about the no bigs even with losing those 2.    Best teams in college usually have guards or wings as their best player.  In my opinion until IU’s best player is a guard or a wing they will continue to struggle with the upper tier teams 

100% agree.
The lack of a go-to wing in the upcoming class is a concern as it is with the present team. I’m repeating myself, as we all do LOL, but we are limited against top tier teams when virtually our only go-to, when we need a bucket, is feeding a 6’9” left handed only center that doesn’t shoot beyond 4 feet (don’t take that wrong. I’m a big TJD fan but let’s face it…left hand only and shooting within 4 feet is his game).  TJD has been double and triple teamed and stopped from going to his left while teams have dared our other players to beat them. We need a multi dimensional offensive wing as an alternative option, and to relieve defensive pressure in the paint, in the worst way. 

The Big Ten coaches can put together their defensive plans against us in their sleep. 

[IU Scott 2,375]

5 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Dude, Michigan football was elite well before Harbaugh.  They had a few down years in the mid 2000s, but never lost the momentum like IU basketball did with the Sampson debacle.  

And you just can call yourself elite because you hold the program to "elite standards."  If you have to call yourself elite, are you?  

One player doesn't make a team elite.  And you're now not talking about uniforms but sponsors.  Completely different.  The uniform comments where in regard to the look of the uniform, not the sponsor.  

I just think some of these young guys think sports didn't start until they started watching and have no clue about the history of the game.  They think they invented the game and think all changes are good for the sports. In basketball the changes in style  and the overuse of analytics is killing the game of basketball.  Then we have this guy who actually thinks your uniforms make a difference in you being elite or not.

 

[Golfman25 6,760]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I don't care how old I am which is 52 and you can never convince me that what uniforms you wear makes an ounce if difference. If a kid chooses a school for their uniforms then those type of kids I don't want near my team.

I am sorry to say this but I think you are pretty much cluess when it comes to what makes a great team or program.  

Exactly.  Players want to play and win.  They'll do it in shirts vs skins if they have to.  All the "stuff" is nice, but it's not dispositive in determining where someone will play.  And if they are more concerned about the "stuff" then they don't belong.  

[southernindianahoosier2 1,056]

1 minute ago, Golfman25 said:

Dude, Michigan football was elite well before Harbaugh.  They had a few down years in the mid 2000s, but never lost the momentum like IU basketball did with the Sampson debacle.  

And you just can call yourself elite because you hold the program to "elite standards."  If you have to call yourself elite, are you?  

One player doesn't make a team elite.  And you're now not talking about uniforms but sponsors.  Completely different.  The uniform comments where in regard to the look of the uniform, not the sponsor.  

I'm not sure I follow your second point. 

I'm talking about both the uniforms and the sponsors. Our current uniforms are not great, and our sponsorship is doo doo. 

https://twitter.com/AmandaPavelka3/status/1604678225963139072?s=20&t=OpRLyJkF_7QtkVDySZSSwA

Seems like it may be an issue with IU and not adidas based on this tweet? 

[Hovadipo 61,426]

Just now, southernindianahoosier2 said:

Do you want IU to have more fan gear or player gear? I don’t understand your argument. Do you think IU athletes aren’t getting the same type of on/off-field gear that a kid at a Nike school gets? Because that would be patently false. I like Nike as much as the next guy, but some of the best athletes in the world are Adidas athletes. It isn’t nearly as big of a difference as you’re making it out to be and it isn’t going to change from IU’s standpoint anytime soon. 

IU’s fan gear situation isn’t great, but that doesn’t matter to the product on the floor or recruits we’re getting. Not even a drop in the bucket. 
 

[IU Scott 2,375]

1 minute ago, Golfman25 said:

Exactly.  Players want to play and win.  They'll do it in shirts vs skins if they have to.  All the "stuff" is nice, but it's not dispositive in determining where someone will play.  And if they are more concerned about the "stuff" then they don't belong.  

Exactly 

[IU Scott 2,375]

2 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

I'm not sure I follow your second point. 

I'm talking about both the uniforms and the sponsors. Our current uniforms are not great, and our sponsorship is doo doo. 

https://twitter.com/AmandaPavelka3/status/1604678225963139072?s=20&t=OpRLyJkF_7QtkVDySZSSwA

Seems like it may be an issue with IU and not adidas based on this tweet? 

Not one time in my life I ever worried or thought about what a teams uniforms looked like.  I worry about the product on the court or fis and not worry about frivolous things.

[southernindianahoosier2 1,056]

1 minute ago, Hovadipo said:

Do you want IU to have more fan gear or player gear? I don’t understand your argument. Do you think IU athletes aren’t getting the same type of on/off-field gear that a kid at a Nike school gets? Because that would be patently false. I like Nike as much as the next guy, but some of the best athletes in the world are Adidas athletes. It isn’t nearly as big of a difference as you’re making it out to be and it isn’t going to change from IU’s standpoint anytime soon. 

IU’s fan gear situation isn’t great, but that doesn’t matter to the product on the floor or recruits we’re getting. Not even a drop in the bucket. 
 

I want more fan gear, more player gear, Nike to sponsor IU. and for IU to take the small things about the program seriously. How can you expect to have an elite program if you can't take care of the small things.... Via the tweet, when compared to Kansas (who just won a national championship), we aren't doing the small things and are not on the same level as them. 

[Golfman25 6,760]

4 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

100% agree.
The lack of a go-to wing in the upcoming class is a concern as it is with the present team. I’m repeating myself, as we all do LOL, but we are limited against top tier teams when virtually our only go-to, when we need a bucket, is feeding a 6’9” left handed only center that doesn’t shoot beyond 4 feet (don’t take that wrong. I’m a big TJD fan but let’s face it…left hand only and shooting within 4 feet is his game).  TJD has been double and triple teamed and stopped from going to his left while teams have dared our other players to beat them. We need a multi dimensional offensive wing as an alternative option, and to relieve defensive pressure in the paint, in the worst way. 

The Big Ten coaches can put together their defensive plans against us in their sleep. 

OMG, it's Stacey King.  :) 

[IU Scott 2,375]

3 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

Do you want IU to have more fan gear or player gear? I don’t understand your argument. Do you think IU athletes aren’t getting the same type of on/off-field gear that a kid at a Nike school gets? Because that would be patently false. I like Nike as much as the next guy, but some of the best athletes in the world are Adidas athletes. It isn’t nearly as big of a difference as you’re making it out to be and it isn’t going to change from IU’s standpoint anytime soon. 

IU’s fan gear situation isn’t great, but that doesn’t matter to the product on the floor or recruits we’re getting. Not even a drop in the bucket. 
 

I have some very nice IU gear