IU Basketball News and Notes

[DChoosier]

8 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Also if you want to actually discuss the possibility let’s do it. 
 

The landscape has changed completely. College coaching is NBA-lite nowadays with “payrolls”. Everything has changed.  I don’t expect it or even think we need it. Just get a respected basketball mind and keep NIL at the tippy top. The formula is different. 

One could argue that the NBA coaching is College-lite these days. NBA coaches have it relatively easy with rookie salary cap, signing /tying up guys up for 2-5 years vs. no cap in college and guys moving freely at any time. 
Any NBA coach/executive (Donavon/Brad etc) would be NUTS to consider moving to the college ranks

[HoosierHoopster]

9 hours ago, DChoosier said:

One could argue that the NBA coaching is College-lite these days. NBA coaches have it relatively easy with rookie salary cap, signing /tying up guys up for 2-5 years vs. no cap in college and guys moving freely at any time. 
Any NBA coach/executive (Donavon/Brad etc) would be NUTS to consider moving to the college ranks

There’s a pretty significant difference in job security college vs NBA. NBA coaches are expected to deliver immediately, doesn’t matter what the contract term is, win now or you’re fired. College coaches generally get 4-5 years to win. And that’s one reason guys at the NBA level consider the move

[go iu bb]

An NBA coach coaches the players the GM gets him. He might have some feedback on who he does or doesn't want, but that's it. The GM does  all the work in regards to obtaining the players and contracts. They have a collective  bargaining agreement which makes the contracts binding and has rules regarding free agency. There is a draft so the only recruiting is done on free agents and that is probably only a little wining and dining along with a dollar figure. The coaches get breaks in the summer to go on vacations and spend time with their families. 

College coaches are the coach and GM in one so they have to do both jobs. Recruiting HS players is a long and labor intensive practice which involves watching them play (usually many times), in home visits, unofficial visits, official visits, regular texts/calls, etc. Some of this the assistants do but a good HC still puts in plenty of the work. Recruiting from the portal is probably the closest thing to NBA free agency but it's still work the coach and not a GM has to do. There is no collective bargaining agreement so contracts aren't binding and the transfer portal means players can suddenly decide to leave. The coach has to be constantly recruiting both new and current players. The summer is spent recruiting and coaching.

I'm not sure "NBA-lite" is the right term.

[Demo]

10 hours ago, DChoosier said:

One could argue that the NBA coaching is College-lite these days. NBA coaches have it relatively easy with rookie salary cap, signing /tying up guys up for 2-5 years vs. no cap in college and guys moving freely at any time. 
Any NBA coach/executive (Donavon/Brad etc) would be NUTS to consider moving to the college ranks

Can’t imagine why any NBA HC with real long term prospects would seriously consider the move. As much as everyone likes to throw around the  “IU is Woody’s dream job” thing like it’s gospel, if IU had approached Woody after Sampson when the program was a smoking crater and he was in solidly with the Hawks that guy would’ve laughed out loud. What might be interesting to watch is what happens with a guy like Kevin Young at BYU. Going after a young Asst before they’re established might be an interesting tack. Suppose IU has a good enough year next year that Woody can rationalize riding into the sunset. Would they consider a guy like Ron Nored? He’s something like 35 and he’s gonna be an NBA HC in the not too distant future. Carlisle gushed about him and you watch video of him, dude’s got it. Probably not, though I think it’s a thought, but now that you can win anywhere getting a youngish longterm guy who’s already having college success is no gimme. 

[HoosierHoopster]

Getting lost in this convo, along with lack of job security in the NBA, is that the star players, not the coach, have all the power. How many HC’s have the Lakers had only just recently? Or pick any other strong franchise with star players, if they don’t like the coach he’s out, simple as that. There sre only a select few who are untouchable- Pop being the best example - but he earned it, best coach in the game.

[Stuhoo]

2 hours ago, Demo said:

Can’t imagine why any NBA HC with real long term prospects would seriously consider the move. As much as everyone likes to throw around the  “IU is Woody’s dream job” thing like it’s gospel, if IU had approached Woody after Sampson when the program was a smoking crater and he was in solidly with the Hawks that guy would’ve laughed out loud. What might be interesting to watch is what happens with a guy like Kevin Young at BYU. Going after a young Asst before they’re established might be an interesting tack. Suppose IU has a good enough year next year that Woody can rationalize riding into the sunset. Would they consider a guy like Ron Nored? He’s something like 35 and he’s gonna be an NBA HC in the not too distant future. Carlisle gushed about him and you watch video of him, dude’s got it. Probably not, though I think it’s a thought, but now that you can win anywhere getting a youngish longterm guy who’s already having college success is no gimme. 

Not that I always get these right (Gates), but I was pushing for Nored when we hired Archie and Nored was in his late 20’s.

That hasn’t changed—he’d still be a great get. There’s have to be a sense that he wasn’t going to bolt for an NBA he job and then he’d be my #1 choice. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 6/2/2024 at 9:34 AM, HoosierHoopster said:

Getting lost in this convo, along with lack of job security in the NBA, is that the star players, not the coach, have all the power. How many HC’s have the Lakers had only just recently? Or pick any other strong franchise with star players, if they don’t like the coach he’s out, simple as that. There sre only a select few who are untouchable- Pop being the best example - but he earned it, best coach in the game.

Erik Spoelstra also seems untouchable. Pat Riley loves the guy.

[Home Jersey]

[Demo]

2 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

2 things: 1) Before Newton got hurt I would 100% agree. Hopefully X has seen enough and isn’t just talking. 2) In no universe was Hanner the most athletic player to play at IU unless change of direction, body control, hands and short area quickness are suddenly not part of an athletic profile. 

[Home Jersey]

7 minutes ago, Demo said:

2 things: 1) Before Newton got hurt I would 100% agree. Hopefully X has seen enough and isn’t just talking. 2) In no universe was Hanner the most athletic player to play at IU unless change of direction, body control, hands and short area quickness are suddenly not part of an athletic profile. 

Amen, hopefully it's genuine from X... Jakai is definitely a sleeper/dark horse factor. I want it to work out here badly. Hope we get to see him run with the other GA guards at least a little bit, even if only in the preseason. Want to see a team that plays with joy this year. 

As for #2... Lol, so true. Hanner was such a frustrating player and in the end, proved to be more trouble than worthwhile. I'd have to go Oladipo for most athletic, in my time anyway. I'm probably missing a bunch of notables though. Who comes to mind for you? 

[Stuhoo]

Jakai Newton has been cleared and playing full-go one on one.

If our guard rotation is Rice, Carlyle, Galloway, Newton, Cupps, and Leal, and all are starting the season healthy I'm gonna be a happy guy.

[HoosierHoopster]

I am so looking forward to seeing Newton, healthy. He’s so talented. Really getting overlooked because of the injury. The “if” is if he’s really going to be full boar back, but if he is we’ll be a lot better for it - and I always want to see guys overcome injury

[DChoosier]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Jakai Newton has been cleared and playing full-go one on one.

If our guard rotation is Rice, Carlyle, Galloway, Newton, Cupps, and Leal, and all are starting the season healthy I'm gonna be a happy guy.

Me too.

So at guard we have exchanged X and Gunn for Rice, Carlyle and Newton while at the wing we have exchanged Banks and Walker (sort of a wing?) for Goode and 5* Tucker (can’t wait to see what he can do. For some reason he is the least talked about 5* we have landed in 30 years.).  Plus a year older MR, Cupps and MM (looking forward to MM playing as he did the last half of the season as he really improved).

Looking forward to seeing them play together.

And yes as a public service, and to save a few people the time it takes to reply, I will add that this means Woodson better deliver this season and expectations should definitely be high.

[Demo]

16 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Jakai Newton has been cleared and playing full-go one on one.

If our guard rotation is Rice, Carlyle, Galloway, Newton, Cupps, and Leal, and all are starting the season healthy I'm gonna be a happy guy.

https://x.com/GeneralChadwick/status/1797804100979200271
 

Well, this is sort of promising.

[Stuhoo]

18 minutes ago, Demo said:

https://x.com/GeneralChadwick/status/1797804100979200271
 

Well, this is sort of promising.

As someone with one good knee and one bad one, for me the best news from that picture is that he can land on the microfracture knee from that height.

[Hovadipo]

3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

As someone with one good knee and one bad one, for me the best news from that picture is that he can land on the microfracture knee from that height.

Can we get a picture of you attempting the same thing? It isn't to laugh at you, it's for science.

[Stuhoo]

7 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

Can we get a picture of you attempting the same thing? It isn't to laugh at you, it's for science.

[Demo]

17 hours ago, Home Jersey said:

As for #2... Lol, so true. Hanner was such a frustrating player and in the end, proved to be more trouble than worthwhile. I'd have to go Oladipo for most athletic, in my time anyway. I'm probably missing a bunch of notables though. Who comes to mind for you? 

Now you’ve done it. I’m at home with an uncooperative back so I have nothing better to do than think about this. It could go on for a minute. Off the top of my head and in order of when they played:

1) McGinnis- the anti-Perea. Not a great vertical athlete, but everything else was positively ahead of his time. Upper and lower body strength, 1st step quickness, long speed, change of direction, body control and 1 of the best sets of hands I’ve seen in basketball. If a basketball generation is 15 years, Mac may not have been a generation ahead, he might have been 2. At his peak he was Barkley at 6’8” instead of 6’4”. 
2) Wilkerson- In the mid-70’s 6’7” guys who were probably plus-6 or so with effortless change of direction and body control and legit 40 inch verts basically didn’t exist. As a defensive toolkit he was rare to the point of maybe unique for his time. In the F4 against UCLA he took Raymond Townsend, who was a really good college PG, and smothered that guy. 
3) Smart- probably some upper body stiffness and not great hands from being #1 on an IU list. Length, strength at his size, 1 and 2 foot explosiveness, speed end to end, 1st step, change of direction, all elite. 
4) Oladipo- that a 6’4” 205lb dude could beat literally any defender at all with his 1st step, I’ll never get over how easily he could do it. And then he just had the whole toolkit past that. His body breaking down was such a shame. 
 

[AH1971]

5 hours ago, Demo said:

Now you’ve done it. I’m at home with an uncooperative back so I have nothing better to do than think about this. It could go on for a minute. Off the top of my head and in order of when they played:

1) McGinnis- the anti-Perea. Not a great vertical athlete, but everything else was positively ahead of his time. Upper and lower body strength, 1st step quickness, long speed, change of direction, body control and 1 of the best sets of hands I’ve seen in basketball. If a basketball generation is 15 years, Mac may not have been a generation ahead, he might have been 2. At his peak he was Barkley at 6’8” instead of 6’4”. 
2) Wilkerson- In the mid-70’s 6’7” guys who were probably plus-6 or so with effortless change of direction and body control and legit 40 inch verts basically didn’t exist. As a defensive toolkit he was rare to the point of maybe unique for his time. In the F4 against UCLA he took Raymond Townsend, who was a really good college PG, and smothered that guy. 
3) Smart- probably some upper body stiffness and not great hands from being #1 on an IU list. Length, strength at his size, 1 and 2 foot explosiveness, speed end to end, 1st step, change of direction, all elite. 
4) Oladipo- that a 6’4” 205lb dude could beat literally any defender at all with his 1st step, I’ll never get over how easily he could do it. And then he just had the whole toolkit past that. His body breaking down was such a shame. 
 

I'd add Charlie Miller and Troy Williams.

Charlie Miller more so than Troy Williams, but both examples of high level athletes who could never really translate that to production on the court sans Williams junior year. 

[Home Jersey]

1 hour ago, Demo said:

Now you’ve done it. I’m at home with an uncooperative back so I have nothing better to do than think about this. It could go on for a minute. Off the top of my head and in order of when they played:

1) McGinnis- the anti-Perea. Not a great vertical athlete, but everything else was positively ahead of his time. Upper and lower body strength, 1st step quickness, long speed, change of direction, body control and 1 of the best sets of hands I’ve seen in basketball. If a basketball generation is 15 years, Mac may not have been a generation ahead, he might have been 2. At his peak he was Barkley at 6’8” instead of 6’4”. 
2) Wilkerson- In the mid-70’s 6’7” guys who were probably plus-6 or so with effortless change of direction and body control and legit 40 inch verts basically didn’t exist. As a defensive toolkit he was rare to the point of maybe unique for his time. In the F4 against UCLA he took Raymond Townsend, who was a really good college PG, and smothered that guy. 
3) Smart- probably some upper body stiffness and not great hands from being #1 on an IU list. Length, strength at his size, 1 and 2 foot explosiveness, speed end to end, 1st step, change of direction, all elite. 
4) Oladipo- that a 6’4” 205lb dude could beat literally any defender at all with his 1st step, I’ll never get over how easily he could do it. And then he just had the whole toolkit past that. His body breaking down was such a shame. 
 

Hope the back quits acting up on ya soon.

Great list... Albeit he's ahead of my time slightly, but I kinda feel Smart is generally underrated as one of our program legends. As if his iconic shot almost draws so much attention, it's easy to forget just how important/good of a player he was the rest of the time, too. 

Oladipo was too uber athletic for his body to hold up. And he had some awful luck contract wise in the league. I'd love if he came "home" to Bloomington one day, probably unlikely though. His play style and dunks were iconic... he made IU "cool" for a lot of NJ HS students at the time. People literally applied because they thought Assembly Hall looked bad*ss and Kelley is ranked well lol. 

Always felt like Troy Williams had potential to be that same kind of explosive guy, but couldn't put it together consistently. I'm excited to watch the alums play in some of these newer leagues. Never really tuned in before