IUBB @ Michigan State - 02/12/22 @ 3:30 on Fox-TV

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,289]

How so many of us continue to care so much is truly remarkable.

This isn’t a quick fix. We lose TJD. That’ll hurt despite the discussion it somehow won’t. I could see Race returning but I could just as easily see him transferring for 1 season to a tournament caliber roster. Galloway can’t shoot. It’s bad. He does a lot of other things well, but basketball is a lot about shooting and when you are 6’4” you better be able to shoot.

As you all have noticed, I’ve thrown in the towel on this group a while ago. They aren’t good. What’s it really matter? Sure, maybe we slip into the tournament. For our programs sake, I hope we do, we need it. But we don’t deserve it. We all know it. We watch the games. Next year needs a miracle. A rebuild of sorts. What a mess.


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[go iu bb 7,246]

28 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Yes, actually for about 3/4ths of the game.

My wife and have hike a lot in Arizona, Southern Nevada and Southeastern California areas.  We love hiking in those areas, like Sedona, Joshua Trees NP, Death Valley NP, Havasu Falls And Grand Canyon NP.

You should try to win the pass lottery to home to The Wave. It's amazing. They've increased the number of passes per day given since I went so it might not be too bad now. 

Antelope Canyon is also worth a visit.

[Southside 1,914]

3 hours ago, Hovadipo said:

Geronimo probably leads the country in fouls per minute, if that’s tracked. It’s really hard to play him extended minutes, as much as I’d like to. 

I know not great in that area, but I've seen worse lol. 

I'll take his fouls in place of Kopp's zero production/minute... 

[cthomas 6,534]

4 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

How so many of us continue to care so much is truly remarkable.

This isn’t a quick fix. We lose TJD. That’ll hurt despite the discussion it somehow won’t. I could see Race returning but I could just as easily see him transferring for 1 season to a tournament caliber roster. Galloway can’t shoot. It’s bad. He does a lot of other things well, but basketball is a lot about shooting and when you are 6’4” you better be able to shoot.

As you all have noticed, I’ve thrown in the towel on this group a while ago. They aren’t good. What’s it really matter? Sure, maybe we slip into the tournament. For our programs sake, I hope we do, we need it. But we don’t deserve it. We all know it. We watch the games. Next year needs a miracle. A rebuild of sorts. What a mess.


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Of course, you are right about where we are. But I really don't understand why we would think that this would be different given that we have essentially the same players. Look, I support these guys because they committed to suit up for my team. We haven't been really good for a long time. That's not on the kids. It's on the program. I will believe that we are headed in the right direction until I'm proven wrong. Until then, I'm all in with these kids.

[HoosierTrav 7,991]

3 hours ago, Hovadipo said:

Need this take explained to me. It’s been said a lot and no one has ever responded in a way that makes any sense or is based in reality. Thanks in advance. 

Them offering Brad Stevens 10 M’s per year debunked this for me. 

[HoosierAloha 30,087]

4 minutes ago, Whoozhers said:

“Similar to how we did today” I agree. However, it’s been this same funk the last couple years of Crean, all 4 years of Archie and continues today. It’s a curse of the worst magnitude.

I do believe Coach Woodson is the right man for the job. I was hoping for better his first year but we still got one wheel in the ditch. Leaves a terrible taste in your mouth.

We need a breakthrough and be consistent ASAP!

We need to shut our mouths, we need to work hard, we need to play hard, we need to develop, we need to have gym rats, we need to have leaders, we need talent, we need a system that puts our players in the best position to succeed.

Remember when we all talked about Wiscy finishing low in the Big 1.o this season? Crazy how they worked and got better, had a kid develop out of nowhere to be in the talk for Big 1.o POY. They have leaders that step up when needed.

Remember how we were concerned where we would finish? One of our players even posted on social media about showing out. Has our All Big 1.o center played up to the hype this season? Have our players made noticeable jumps in development? Do we have a leader?

One of those two programs is fighting for another Big 1.o conference title and the other is sinking fast, trying to hold on for their first NCAA tourney appearance in forever. I don't think that's a coincidence.

[Southside 1,914]

11 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

How so many of us continue to care so much is truly remarkable.

This isn’t a quick fix. We lose TJD. That’ll hurt despite the discussion it somehow won’t. I could see Race returning but I could just as easily see him transferring for 1 season to a tournament caliber roster. Galloway can’t shoot. It’s bad. He does a lot of other things well, but basketball is a lot about shooting and when you are 6’4” you better be able to shoot.

As you all have noticed, I’ve thrown in the towel on this group a while ago. They aren’t good. What’s it really matter? Sure, maybe we slip into the tournament. For our programs sake, I hope we do, we need it. But we don’t deserve it. We all know it. We watch the games. Next year needs a miracle. A rebuild of sorts. What a mess.


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Hey, we beat PU this year. That's something Archi couldn't do. Ever. And we did it with 3 guys starting that didn't play for this team last year. 

In short, nothing wrong with caring, or being optimistic. Not saying we should be sunshine pumping. I agree 110% it's not a quick fix. But we've seen some positives out of Woody that we didn't see with Archie. I'll give Woody a few years to get his own guys, and for the guys to learn his system.

Losing TJD will absolutely hurt. But year two with some of the guys like Bates, year one with Hood-Schifino, and whoever walks through the portal.... I'm not totally down on the future. While I agree losing TJD sucks, it also sucks when your offense is 99% reliant on a 5, that really isn't a 5, and doesn't have any other legit scorers. Defense though looks nice in year one..... 

[HoosierAloha 30,087]

16 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

How so many of us continue to care so much is truly remarkable.

This isn’t a quick fix. We lose TJD. That’ll hurt despite the discussion it somehow won’t. I could see Race returning but I could just as easily see him transferring for 1 season to a tournament caliber roster. Galloway can’t shoot. It’s bad. He does a lot of other things well, but basketball is a lot about shooting and when you are 6’4” you better be able to shoot.

As you all have noticed, I’ve thrown in the towel on this group a while ago. They aren’t good. What’s it really matter? Sure, maybe we slip into the tournament. For our programs sake, I hope we do, we need it. But we don’t deserve it. We all know it. We watch the games. Next year needs a miracle. A rebuild of sorts. What a mess.


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Will Woody go all apeshit Crean trying to find a scheme to attack from the perimeter. At least we won't have Hartman trying to play center, right? right?!

It truly is and a helluva play by the university to go with a former player to see how this experiment works out. I know Goodman is a goof but I guess he dug into former players having X number of games played in the NBA who returned to college to coach. I don't know if he released the article but he stated that those situations were bad. Names like Patrick Ewing, Penny, Jerry Stackhouse, Avery Johnson, Chris Mullin, etc.

[IUFAN1976 4,172]

21 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

You should try to win the pass lottery to home to The Wave. It's amazing. They've increased the number of passes per day given since I went so it might not be too bad now. 

Antelope Canyon is also worth a visit.

I think we hiked it.  Isn’t that by Page, AZ and Horse Shoe Bend?  I think we hike the slot canyons there!

[Hovadipo 58,376]

15 minutes ago, HoosierTrav said:

Them offering Brad Stevens 10 M’s per year debunked this for me. 

I could see Fred being scared of Knight Part 2 (which is a goofy, unrealistic thing to be scared of in 2022) but Dolson doesn’t care. He wants to win and will try throwing $10mil a year at doing it. 

[HoosierX 1,725]

After not going to any IU games in years, I happened to go to both of the last two games.

Maybe the sample size is too small, but honestly we don’t play that hard, especially Parker and TJD.

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,289]

Them offering Brad Stevens 10 M’s per year debunked this for me. 

The mystery is we were willing to offer 8-10 million for Stevens, but then almost immediately settle on Woodson for 3.5 mil. Doesn’t compute. Guys were out there for 8 million. I guess, maybe only Stevens is worth it, but I wanted a proven college coach who has systems and understands the landscape.

I like Kenya, Fife as assistants. I like Rosemond, i guess. Assistants should be for recruiting, game planning/scouting, and player development. None of that stuff looks that great. Thad Matta? Sounds great in theory. What’s he doing? Whatever.

I like Woodson, the man. Seems like an awesome dude. The coach? Not impressed. I think the players like/liked him but let’s see how a “underperforming” (their expectations) season changes things.


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[IUFAN1976 4,172]

54 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Played for him

• Trey Galloway
• Jordan Geronimo
• Trayc Jackson-Davis
• Khristian Lander
• Anthony Leal
• Rob Phinisee
• Race Thompson

Didn't play for him

• Tamar Bates
• Logan Duncomb
• Michael Durr
• Xavier Johnson
• Miller Kopp
• Parker Stewart

The majority of the roster played for him 7/13. Woody re-recruited most (all?) of them and they all play for him. Also, we all dogged on Arch and Co. for his turrrlbe offense. He never had an adjusted offense (KenPom) as bad as the one we currently have.

Even though he didn’t play for him, Parker Stewart should go on that list because Miller recruited him and I know he practiced with them last year.

Yes, CMW re-recruited them but it was either that or start from scratch.  I know CMW is responsible for the offense and I do believe it should be better than it is and we should play uptempo more but I still think the offense will get so much faster and better when TJD leaves.  I noticed once the ball goes into him, most everyone stays station around him and when they cut, it’s not sharp/hard cuts.  One of the announcers said something that made since, TJD needs to make his move or decision quicker.  It’s like he can’t pass on the move or he can’t read the defense properly 

[IU - Kaulie 1,930]

3 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

If Galloway starts and plays 31 minutes you know our guard play isn’t up to par. Over the next 2-3 years if Galloway starts and plays 30 minutes you know we didn’t improve guard talent.

Nope.  He didn’t have his best game but this kid gets it.  Him starting and playing 30 minutes is right where he should be.

[Cliche 118]

It was an ugly game (and being at the game, a terrible sound system). I haven’t lost hope in this team but they seemed snakebit today. For some reason, I think they aren’t experiencing the February-March slide from the past few years. I think they’re in the ‘dark night of the soul’ this week. I suspect we’ll be having a different conversation in a couple weeks. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,289]

Nope.  He didn’t have his best game but this kid gets it.  Him starting and playing 30 minutes is right where he should be.

Getting it versus having the skill set to be a starter on a top 10-15 roster aren’t mutually exclusive.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy him over Kopp and Stewart. But some schools are playing Jaden Ivey types at the 2.


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[DChoosier 9,130]

2 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

Look guys. From an old timer. IUs roots are role players. Guys like Eyl, Nover, Sloan, even Garret to some extent. I’ll never forget sykle was supposed to own Garrett. Fk that chit. Alford was the man but Smart hit the shot. Etc Etc. Guys like Derek Elston and Hulls. Guys that bleed crimson. Doyle knows. Woody knows. We’ll get there


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Agree that role players are extremely important but many of the role players you mention ( Elston, Nover, Sloan, etc) were surrounded by guys that were threats from the three, could drive and hit free throws (Smart, Alford, Calbert, VO, etc). We need dudes that can score. As an example Smart and Alford shot free throws in the high 80’s, Smart hit over 50% of his shots, Alford hit 53% of his threes and they were threats from the perimeter and able to take it to the basket. 
We currently have PLENTY (most of our roster) of role players but need guys that can score in a variety of ways. This team is sorely, sorely missing wings/guards that are a threat from the perimeter, to drive to the bucket and hit free throws. I’m hoping Bates turns into one of those guys (and maybe Galloway if he can fix his outside shot) but we need one more guy like that, or preferably two, next year.

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,289]

Them offering Brad Stevens 10 M’s per year debunked this for me. 

Someone should have asked McRobbie what happens when you go Woke?


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[IUFAN1976 4,172]

25 minutes ago, Southside said:

 

Hey, we beat PU this year. That's something Archi couldn't do. Ever. And we did it with 3 guys starting that didn't play for this team last year. 

In short, nothing wrong with caring, or being optimistic. Not saying we should be sunshine pumping. I agree 110% it's not a quick fix. But we've seen some positives out of Woody that we didn't see with Archie. I'll give Woody a few years to get his own guys, and for the guys to learn his system.

Losing TJD will absolutely hurt. But year two with some of the guys like Bates, year one with Hood-Schifino, and whoever walks through the portal.... I'm not totally down on the future. While I agree losing TJD sucks, it also sucks when your offense is 99% reliant on a 5, that really isn't a 5, and doesn't have any other legit scorers. Defense though looks nice in year one..... 

He isn’t a 4 either.   Most 4’s can hit outside shots, TJD can’t.  He isn’t good up close either, unless he is dunking the ball.  I like TJD, he is a Hoosier but think once he is gone, our offense will be much better and less predictable!

[HoosierAloha 30,087]

3 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Even though he didn’t play for him, Parker Stewart should go on that list because Miller recruited him and I know he practiced with them last year.

Yes, CMW re-recruited them but it was either that or start from scratch.  I know CMW is responsible for the offense and I do believe it should be better than it is and we should play uptempo more but I still think the offense will get so much faster and better when TJD leaves.  I noticed once the ball goes into him, most everyone stays station around him and when they cut, it’s not sharp/hard cuts.  One of the announcers said something that made since, TJD needs to make his move or decision quicker.  It’s like he can’t pass on the move or he can’t read the defense properly 

Wasn't P Stew not even practicing with them for a stretch last season. You want to place him on a list with Archie because he practiced with him and not on a list where he has practiced and played for that coach? That's odd.

Let's not start this twisting the narrative. It's not 2008 all over again. It's 2022 where there were like 600 free agents in college basketball. We were stoked Woody and Co. were able to identify 'talent' and land them quickly. Now that they're not producing we want to blame someone else.

These issues aren't anything new. They've been there all year. The difference is we're facing better competition and it's not working. We had a summer trip with extra practices. We had a noncon in the 300+ range to figure these things out. We were happy that we were winning while not fixing these issues.

What's going to change next season? Will our returners all of a sudden start caring and play with e and e? Who is being groomed to be a leader? Who's going to drag their teammates into the gym over the summer to get better?