IUBB @ Northwestern - 02/08/22 @ 9:00 ET on BTN

[Stuhoo 80,550]

15 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

So I think this is a catching point between my posts and those reading the posts. Please show me where in any of my posts about games that we won or lost I said we shouldn't have won or the loss should count double. I'm placing text on a website and you're interpreting that text. I can't determine how you're interpreting that text, that's something you can control. Let's walk through this

Was O$U the same after returning from their COVID break? Did you miss the word handily?

Where is Minny in the standings? Are they a good team?

Did we not lose our mind in the second half at Iowa? Go read the game thread, a lot of people saw that happening. Is 20+ turnovers not losing your mind?

For the Nebrasketball game, what happened? Are they not THE cellar dweller? They finally won a conference game to their fellow cellar dwellers.

Did Rob not have the game of his career? Remember him finally getting over his confidence issues?

Again, this is how you're interpreting what I'm posting. These things actually happened. The bigger issue is how we've played this season. Many want to overlook that hoping it's not true. We have intelligent fans that can see it. Instead of recognizing it and discussing it we want to go after fellow posters who are talking about it. The signs have been there for a long time. (they even show in wins!!)

 

President Lincoln and his wife attended a show at Ford's theater. Here's my takeaways -- all are absolutely true!

1. The seats were excellent
2. The performance was world class
3. There was a food and beverage reception before the show. Everything was delicious.
4. The nation's top doctors were on call and when needed gave exceptional attention to all who needed it.

In other words, the only (accurate) takeaways you attached to a long in-conference stretch of excellent results were out of line with the context of what ultimately happened.

 

[RaceToTheTop 25,623]

Just now, HoosierAloha said:

So you deflect again, what about that 6th game? (bth I'd want to forget that game too) I guess if we don't show up for the game we can excuse it completely as not an e and e issue because we never really "got on the court."

It actually didn't even take that many games. We lost our minds at Iowa. Do you think it's possible that some of the on court issues are reflective of the off court issues..? Maybe the team should have meetings ever 2.5 games to remember they need to play hard and listen to their coach.

talk not action - Where are these developed players? There was a lot of talk, where are the results?

(read that again, we're having to remember to play hard and listen to the coach. That's where we are, needing a reminder to play hard and listen. ouch)

Deflect, schmflect.  It doesn't matter, because according to your post every win comes with an excuse for why we won.  "Ohio State hasn't been the same!"  "Minnesota and Nebraska suck!" and my favorite one "Purdue win doesn't count because we had a player play well!"

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

1 hour ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Bates will take a big step forward next year!  Davis for Wisconsin didn’t have the greatest freshman numbers either and look where he is now.  Not saying Bates will put Davis like numbers, but I think he greatly improve next year.

Culture, Wiscy has shown a track record of individuals and teams developing and improving. Where is the evidence we can do the same? I would love to eat a massive plate of crow on this as Bates plays at an All-Big 1.o level next season. Remember, Bates will be have the responsibility of being a new father on top of being a student-athlete next season. He obviously has talent but there is a ton of time and e to realize that talent. Will he get there?

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

20 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

So I think this is a catching point between my posts and those reading the posts. Please show me where in any of my posts about games that we won or lost I said we shouldn't have won or the loss should count double. I'm placing text on a website and you're interpreting that text. I can't determine how you're interpreting that text, that's something you can control. Let's walk through this

Was O$U the same after returning from their COVID break? Did you miss the word handily?

Where is Minny in the standings? Are they a good team?

Did we not lose our mind in the second half at Iowa? Go read the game thread, a lot of people saw that happening. Is 20+ turnovers not losing your mind?

For the Nebrasketball game, what happened? Are they not THE cellar dweller? They finally won a conference game to their fellow cellar dwellers.

Did Rob not have the game of his career? Remember him finally getting over his confidence issues?

Again, this is how you're interpreting what I'm posting. These things actually happened. The bigger issue is how we've played this season. Many want to overlook that hoping it's not true. We have intelligent fans that can see it. Instead of recognizing it and discussing it we want to go after fellow posters who are talking about it. The signs have been there for a long time. (they even show in wins!!)

 

8 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

None of this actually addresses what you said:  'we talk about don't have actions'.  Everything else you posted is just a spin to try to make a point. 

1.  We beat Ohio State.  Your excuse:  'they weren't the same'.  Yet no one has beaten them as bad as we did prior to the break nor after the break.

2.  If you can spin beating Minnesota into a bad performance, more power to you.  They were 10-2 at the time.

3.  Yep, we played absolutely horribly in the second half of the Iowa game.  No one disputes that.

4.  Cool, Nebraska is a cellar dweller.  But that is most certainly a game that we've lost in past seasons and it's also a game that we most certainly could have let slip away when TJD went down.  But I guess that doesn't count either.

5.  Isn't a player actually having the game of his career the embodiment of action, not talk?  We beat the team currently ranked third yet somehow that one doesn't count either.

 

Thank you for making my case. Goodness, we struggle when realities come flying at us and others can take off their crimson colored glasses.

1. I never excused the win. Why would I excuse the win? We won, super happy that we won. It's a great win on our resume for a chance at the NCAA tourney. TJD had an absolutely amazing game. That was kind of my point. Thank you for highlighting that.

2. Where did I spin it into a bad performance? That is YOUR interpretation of me stating they're a cellar dweller (they are, just look at the standings). Awesome they were 10-2 against an almost IU level bad non schedule and losing their two games against the Big 1.o. Thank you for making my point.

3. Glad we agree, should the meeting to remember to play hard and listen to the coach occurred at halftime of that game?

4. Please show me where it shouldn't count. Again, look back to what I originally posted. It says a lot about how you interpret the text.

5. Where are you getting that it doesn't count? Again, you're interpreting this as it's never stated anywhere. That's you, not me. We won our super bowl for the first time in 6 (?) years. That's fantastic!! Progress!!! Remember when Green would go off for a game to get us a win? How'd that work out for us? I'm glad we beat purdoodoo, it was awesome. I'm glad we got back up after stumbling. Phin hit a big shot to put us back on top. Yay!!

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

19 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Deflect, schmflect.  It doesn't matter, because according to your post every win comes with an excuse for why we won.  "Ohio State hasn't been the same!"  "Minnesota and Nebraska suck!" and my favorite one "Purdue win doesn't count because we had a player play well!"

Interpretation, you added so much that wasn't there. I never stated any of the wins don't count. They count and actually mean something towards us hoping to get into the tourney this season. Maybe this is a form of projection? You saw these things as well but don't them to be true so you project them to me?

[RaceToTheTop 25,623]

3 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

Thank you for making my case. Goodness, we struggle when realities come flying at us and others can take off their crimson colored glasses.

1. I never excused the win. Why would I excuse the win? We won, super happy that we won. It's a great win on our resume for a chance at the NCAA tourney. TJD had an absolutely amazing game. That was kind of my point. Thank you for highlighting that.

2. Where did I spin it into a bad performance? That is YOUR interpretation of me stating they're a cellar dweller (they are, just look at the standings). Awesome they were 10-2 against an almost IU level bad non schedule and losing their two games against the Big 1.o. Thank you for making my point.

3. Glad we agree, should the meeting to remember to play hard and listen to the coach occurred at halftime of that game?

4. Please show me where it shouldn't count. Again, look back to what I originally posted. It says a lot about how you interpret the text.

5. Where are you getting that it doesn't count? Again, you're interpreting this as it's never stated anywhere. That's you, not me. We won our super bowl for the first time in 6 (?) years. That's fantastic!! Progress!!! Remember when Green would go off for a game to get us a win? How'd that work out for us? I'm glad we beat purdoodoo, it was awesome. I'm glad we got back up after stumbling. Phin hit a big shot to put us back on top. Yay!!

LOL at the thought that you didn't downplay the streak where we played well.  Self awareness is a gift, brother.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

3 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

LOL at the thought that you didn't downplay the streak where we played well.  Self awareness is a gift, brother.

We did some good things during that 2.5 game win streak with a turd laying second half of the Iowa game and then did some good things, while overcoming a huge obstacle (winning on the road) for another two game win streak. That seems to fit with a lot of what we've done this season. Do you think our on court struggles at times could be reflective of the off court issues?

[Uspshoosier 45,621]

When your inviested in a flawed team and program for that matter these are the kind of ups and downs you are going to get.   Everybody has played somebody when they were coming off a pause or had kids be out.   That’s just part of how this season will play out.    IU has a high 4 star to  5 star fan base that right now in this point in time is emotionally invested in watching a high 3 star to low 4 star program.   It is what it is.   You are going to get great results one day and lay eggs the next.    There was a reason IU was picked to finish between the 6-8 range in the B1G.   Culture, Culture, Culture.   Until IU gets kids in the program that actually want to change this mindset this is what this program is going to be.   Sucks for the older posters that have seen this machine running a maximum output and sucks for the younger poster that have only heard about it.    Unfortunately when most  programs fail with a hired coach they just can’t pick up where he left off and get things rolling but they have to start back to square and IU’s square 1 for along time is middle of the pack B1G.   Expecting a middle of the pack B1G team to win on the road without key players is a hard ask.    The days of seeing Northwesterns and Penn St name on the schedule doesn’t mean automatic win anymore and hasn’t for a while.   15-45 road record for this program before the Northwestern game in the last 6 years.   Program has a long way to go before they are able to absorbed a 5 player suspension and expect to win a road game.    My hope like everyone’s else’s was that a coaching change would get the ball rolling and skip some steps in this long process of getting the program back to solid ground but that hasn’t happened.  The horrible culture  runs deep and probably deeper then any of us thought.     Can’t remember the year but Green got suspended for a 3 game stretch right before some important tournament  implication games and  cost the team.  A couple years later it happens in the program again    Until the culture is changed you are going to get up and down results     Hop on the train and hope for the best     I’m sure most people on here are like me and have no choice but to watch.   It’s in my blood to watch this program either succeed or fail no other option 

 

 

 

 

[RaceToTheTop 25,623]

13 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

We did some good things during that 2.5 game win streak with a turd laying second half of the Iowa game and then did some good things, while overcoming a huge obstacle (winning on the road) for another two game win streak. That seems to fit with a lot of what we've done this season. Do you think our on court struggles at times could be reflective of the off court issues?

My original statement was after you said that we were all talk and no action was a simple 'Didn't we win four of the next five games after that?'

I'm not sure why you are deflecting away from that.  The answer was a simple yes.  I've never argued that this team doesn't have issues.  We all know it does.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

9 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Culture, Culture, Culture.  

Say it louder for the ones in the back and those, like me, who are hard at hearing. Thank you

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

3 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

My original statement was after you said that we were all talk and no action was a simple 'Didn't we win four of the next five games after that?'

I'm not sure why you are deflecting away from that.  The answer was a simple yes.  I've never argued that this team doesn't have issues.  We all know it does.

My reply was asking why 5 games were chosen. What is magical about 5 games? Is there some sports psychologically that states 5 games is the maximum a college basketball player can remember to play hard and listen to their coach?

Yes, we won 4 of 5 games.

I was given reasons for those wins. As my narrative has been ALL season, I'm more concerned about what we are or aren't doing in these games than about W/Ls. W/Ls are fantastic for casual observers and starving fans of a once elite program. Those fundamentals and reasons why we won or lost give better insight to the direction of this team. We cupcaked our way through the noncon (this is not excusing going 9-1, this is factual just look at the noncon SOS). We were gifted a favorable Big 1.o schedule too. We've gotten through quite a bit of that easier schedule and are now getting into more difficult games. Will those glaring issues magically resolve themselves because we had a come to Jesus meeting that resulted in winning 4 of 5 games? We get to find out.

We've been in a position for more than a hot minute where we really need to focus on HOW we're playing the game and not W/Ls. If we're doing the right things on/off the court the W/Ls will take care of themselves and we can build back that once elite program.

[NOLA Hoosier 1,267]

19 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Say it louder for the ones in the back and those, like me, who are hard at hearing. Thank you

Everybody loves Knight until it’s time to do Knight s**t. 
 

To those who don’t want to see accountability, respect for the given rules, and a culture of responsibility to the name on the front of the jersey, go root for Duke, or UNC, or UK, or Kansas, or Auburn. 

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

3 minutes ago, NOLA Hoosier said:

Everybody loves Knight until it’s time to do Knight s**t. 
 

To those who don’t want to see accountability, respect for the given rules, and a culture of responsibility to the name on the front of the jersey, go root for Duke, or UNC, or UK, or Kansas, or Auburn. 

Are you saying everything was on the up and up under Knight? No family members landing jobs around Btown they weren't exactly qualified for?

[NOLA Hoosier 1,267]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Are you saying everything was on the up and up under Knight? No family members landing jobs around Btown they weren't exactly qualified for?

Oh nevermind, totally quoted the wrong person here. MISS ME with that. 

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Just now, NOLA Hoosier said:

Oh nevermind, totally quoted the wrong person here. MISS ME with that. 

I mean I wasn't around Btown at that time so I wouldn't know first hand. I did have the pleasure of having some older golf buddies that were involved with the program and had some interesting stories. I'm sure those stories grew over time and as those individuals aged. If even a portion of those stories were half-truths Knight and the program wasn't as clean as we'd all like to imagine.

Again, just wanting to find out a little more info into that time period. I don't think there is any dispute to his coaching abilities, handling players accountable, or getting the most out of his players.

[IU_FanClub 1,667]

Really just don't understand how people can pick out every single negative with the team and ignore anything positive. There has definitely been player development. Galloway is much much better than he was last year. Race's jumper has been inconsistent but he has still improved a lot. X before the dumb suspension looked like a brand new player. Tamar's shot hasn't been falling but he has looked much more comfortable on the floor. The defense has been much better. Nobody in their right mind thought this team was going to be a perfect championship contender so idk why people are acting like some of these issues weren't expected.

[lillurk 3,738]

3 minutes ago, IU_FanClub said:

There has definitely been player development. Galloway is much much better than he was last year. Race's jumper has been inconsistent but he has still improved a lot. X before the dumb suspension looked like a brand new player. Tamar's shot hasn't been falling but he has looked much more comfortable on the floor. The defense has been much better. Nobody in their right mind thought this team was going to be a perfect championship contender so idk why people are acting like some of these issues weren't expected.

Yes. I have no interest in arguing, and I’m frustrated when we lose or when players are suspended.

I think we mostly all agree that

1. making the dance will make this year a success (especially coupled with the Purdue win in hand), and

2. that’s the beginning of program stabilization, not the end.

We were never going to know if IU was “back” to being a top ten program, year-in and year-out, this year.

[IU_FanClub 1,667]

1 minute ago, lillurk said:

Yes. I have no interest in arguing, and I’m frustrated when we lose or when players are suspended.

I think we mostly all agree that

1. making the dance will make this year a success (especially coupled with the Purdue win in hand), and

2. that’s the beginning of program stabilization, not the end.

We were never going to know if IU was “back” to being a top ten program, year-in and year-out, this year.

Exactly. Let's just get into the tournament this year, continue the very good recruiting we've already been doing and go from there. This thing was not going to be stabilized completely this year and I would say that making the tournament in year 1 of a coach would be pretty good

[Hoosierfan2017 21,328]

1 hour ago, NOLA Hoosier said:

Everybody loves Knight until it’s time to do Knight s**t. 
 

To those who don’t want to see accountability, respect for the given rules, and a culture of responsibility to the name on the front of the jersey, go root for Duke, or UNC, or UK, or Kansas, or Auburn. 

The teams you named are the teams that win. I want IU to be a team that wins. The top 10 is a who’s who of skirting the rules. Auburn, Arizona, UK, Houston, Duke, Kansas, Baylor. Of the top 10 right now, you’ve got Gonzaga, Purdue, and Texas Tech as the arguably ‘clean’ programs, and Gonzaga gave their coach a slap on the wrist for a DUI. I want the team I root for to be a winner. I’m tired of hanging our hats on being a program that “does things the right way” while we miss the tournament year after year. Fans are left to talk about our program being virtuous because it’s all we have. And not even that is really true when you look at some of our recruiting under Archie and Crean.

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,219]

Aren't Bates' parents ex-military? I know one or both or teachers of some sort now, but I thought they were ex military at one point in time.
If so...that makes Bates' behavior even more strange to me. He grew up in a disciplined family.
But then again, maybe he's a wild child like a preacher's daughter. Doesn't come across that way publicly, but you never know.
Hope this is a very good learning experience for all of them. Just hope Woody doesn't blink, and give PS & X their starting jobs back automatically.

Even kids from a well disciplined family, can make a wrong choice and break rules. I'm exhibit A. The question is will he and the others learn from that mistake. Until they show me otherwise, I believe they have.

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