Lineup Changes?

[Stuhoo 80,530]

 

Today Parker and Miller were a combined 1-4 from three in 60 minutes. They had a combined two rebounds in those 60 minutes. (Jordan had three in nine minutes)

Parker and Miller are the team’s two best open/catch and shoot guys, but it seems like now that we’re playing better teams with better defenses, they aren’t going to get all that many looks.

I wonder if Woody is seriously considering either starting or dramatically increasing minutes for Jordan and Phin.

At least then we would have an identity as a team for being truly good at something…physical  and pretty athletic defense. Would also help our rebounding immensely—Phin is a better rebounder than Parker and Jordan is a world’s better rebounder than Miller.

 

 

[IUfan_Charlie 3,867]

There aren’t any good options. Phinisee isn’t good enough to start on a good team, we all know this. And the young guys have not progressed the way you’d want them too. The spacing with TJD, Race, and JG just doesn’t work. This just isn’t that good of a roster. We needed Stewart and Kopp to be lights out and they aren’t. We NEED to be able to make 3s. Take them out and we have ZERO shooters.  This team is poorly constructed. We can’t get to where we want to be without elite guard play and guys who can excel on both sides of the ball.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,325]

More minutes for Phinisee is a good idea if you’re trying to lose. None of our bench options are better than what we have in our starting lineup. Kopp/Stewart went 10-21 from 3 against Syracuse. Woody just needs to get them open shots. Right now it looks like they have no idea what they’re doing on offense. 

[Alford Bailey 12,373]

37 minutes ago, IUfan_Charlie said:

There aren’t any good options. Phinisee isn’t good enough to start on a good team, we all know this. And the young guys have not progressed the way you’d want them too. The spacing of with TJD, Race, and JG just doesn’t work. This just isn’t that good of a roster. We needed Stewart and Kopp to be lights out and they aren’t. We NEED to be able to make 3s. Take them out and we have ZERO shooters.  This team is poorly constructed. We can’t get to where we want to be without elite guard play and guys who can excel on both sides of the ball.

100%

[8bucks 6,431]

 
Today Parker and Miller were a combined 1-4 from three in 60 minutes. They had a combined two rebounds in those 60 minutes. (Jordan had three in nine minutes)
Parker and Miller are the team’s two best open/catch and shoot guys, but it seems like now that we’re playing better teams with better defenses, they aren’t going to get all that many looks.
I wonder if Woody is seriously considering either starting or dramatically increasing minutes for Jordan and Phin.
At least then we would have an identity as a team for being truly good at something…physical  and pretty athletic defense. Would also help our rebounding immensely—Phin is a better rebounder than Parker and Jordan is a world’s better rebounder than Miller.
 
 

I had hoped all the talk of better spacing and an NBA offense would have led to more than 4 three point attempts from those 2. Offense has really looked bad and today looked like last year. Hoping this was an anomaly but just not seeing the spacing constantly leading to an NBA style which I assumed would mean more 3 pt shooting


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[Alford Bailey 12,373]

The lack Phinisee to become even an average B1G point guard combined with our inability to recruit over him has heavily contributed to our lack of success. It’s forced us to recycle X. Gotta have a guard who can get a basket when the game is on the line and we don’t have it.

[Demo 19,885]

15 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

The lack Phinisee to become even an average B1G point guard combined with our inability to recruit over him has heavily contributed to our lack of success. It’s forced us to recycle X. Gotta have a guard who can get a basket when the game is on the line and we don’t have it.

Woodson knows that too. That’s why his 1st 2 classes already have 2 PG’s and a CG. 

[connchr71 23]

4 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

More minutes for Phinisee is a good idea if you’re trying to lose. None of our bench options are better than what we have in our starting lineup. Kopp/Stewart went 10-21 from 3 against Syracuse. Woody just needs to get them open shots. Right now it looks like they have no idea what they’re doing on offense. 

You CAN NOT get marginal (at best) Div. 1 players open shots if you don't have really good offensive players out there with them. They (miller/Kopp) are way out of their league. Johnson has his own problems also. If Franklin and Hunter were familiar with Johnson at all, it is no wonder they didn't stay. This team is lacking severely at PG, SG, and SF. Geronimo has been one of the brighter spots on this team, but you can't really have him out there all the time with your 2 best players out there with him. I really don't see a good combination, Miller and most definitely Stewart should move down the list a few spots.

[ap2345 7,799]

14 hours ago, IUfan_Charlie said:

There aren’t any good options. Phinisee isn’t good enough to start on a good team, we all know this. And the young guys have not progressed the way you’d want them too. The spacing with TJD, Race, and JG just doesn’t work. This just isn’t that good of a roster. We needed Stewart and Kopp to be lights out and they aren’t. We NEED to be able to make 3s. Take them out and we have ZERO shooters.  This team is poorly constructed. We can’t get to where we want to be without elite guard play and guys who can excel on both sides of the ball.

Stewart is shooting 48% from 3 and Kopp is shooting 40% from 3. I would argue that those to need to have more stuff ran for them to force X to facilitate more and stop taking as many stupid shots. TJD getting the majority of the shots and getting fouled the most is also a problem because force feeding a big isn't a recipe for success even if he is an all american. 

[IUc2016 7,121]

9 minutes ago, ap2345 said:

Stewart is shooting 48% from 3 and Kopp is shooting 40% from 3. I would argue that those to need to have more stuff ran for them to force X to facilitate more and stop taking as many stupid shots. TJD getting the majority of the shots and getting fouled the most is also a problem because force feeding a big isn't a recipe for success even if he is an all american. 

This. I love TJD but he should not be the focal point of the offense unfortunately. It is not how the game is played anymore.

Edit: and by focal point I mean that the offense should not look to dump it in to him every time down the court while every one else stands around waiting for him to decide what to do with the ball.

[HoosierHoopster 6,963]

^^ Agree re making better use of outside shooting. We've seen it in some games, can't just overlook that after a bad game, but we aren't seeing it consistently, and it's mostly Kopp imo. 

Playing inside-out is a good formula, we do have consistently good outside shooters, but we are not seeing consistent use of the outside shooting, instead we're seeing overuse (imo) of TJD and Race. They are excellent inside, but that's just part of the offense, you can't play inside out and spread the floor unless you actually use the outside, that's why the spacing looked so bad yesterday.

Also here, can't just forget that we've already had one game where Kopp took a ridiculously high number of shots and shot poorly, so it's not as simple as saying we need Kopp and Parker to shoot more, it's how we're running inside-out, and re the OP, whether we ought to change things up a bit.

Personally, I'd like to see more of Bates. Yeah, he's a frosh, yeah he still makes frosh mistakes, but he's better on D than Kopp (Woodson's comment on his need to improve his D kind of confused me on that), and if you compare the number of shots taken and their numbers he's shooting about the same as Kopp from deep (Bates 11-33, Kopp 16-40 - they were basically even on shots taken until recently), and Bates is better on 2-pt FGs (Bates 52%, 14-27, Kopp 39%, 17-44).

And Bates is scoring 12.2 per 40 minutes to Kopp's 11.7 per 40. That's worth noting.

JMO, but I think Kopp would be outstanding off the bench -- but Woodson is playing experience, and I get that. Bates played just 6 min against PSU, though, that was too few.

 

[bigrod 2,871]

5 hours ago, ap2345 said:

Stewart is shooting 48% from 3 and Kopp is shooting 40% from 3. I would argue that those to need to have more stuff ran for them to force X to facilitate more and stop taking as many stupid shots. TJD getting the majority of the shots and getting fouled the most is also a problem because force feeding a big isn't a recipe for success even if he is an all american. 

Totally agree with this. These guys are both limited in what they can do, so the only way to accentuate their strengths is to run plays to set those up.

[IU Scott 2,375]

I think it is time to go to a 8 or 9 player rotation and stop having the whole second unit at the same time.  I would have 3 guys at the 4-5 spot.  Have Geronimo sub in for Race and in a few minutes have Race come in for TJD. Have RP and probably Galloway and Bates as the other bench players.

[RaceToTheTop 25,622]

IMO, the Stewart and Kopp aren't helping the team when they aren't hitting shots needs to be amended -- they aren't helping the team when they aren't getting shots.  Combined, they are 44 of 99 from deep.  Love TJD and Race, but they have got to be better at kicking it out when they draw a double team.  Also means we need better movement from the perimeter guys when the defense collapses (more so for Stewart than Kopp, IMO -- I think Kopp is just getting missed while Stewart is just not moving,

The crime isn't them not only hitting one three against Penn State....it's them only getting four shots.  

Agree with IU Scott on Geronimo/TJD/Race......I don't see Durr adding anything and think that basically JG should spell Race and TJD.  JG still sometimes plays too fast, but he's a +++ rebounder.

[MikeRoberts 6,998]

Johnson, Leal, Bates, Thompson, Jackson-Davis 

filter in:

Stewart, Kopp, Geronimo

 

that should be it unless guys get in foul trouble. 5 guys rotating the 1-3 and 3 guys rotating the 4-5.

these hockey line changes have to stop. And need Bates on the court to keep players honest as he can score equally on 3s, mid-range and at the rim. Kopp and Stewart pose zero threat inside the arc so they dont go in there which makes it super easy to guard and super stagnant. Likewise, Thompson and Jackson-Davis pose zero threat away from the basket so they don’t leave the basket which makes it easy to guard and super stagnant.

when a defense knows without a doubt that 4 out of the 5 players on offense won’t leave an area it’s cake.

Johnson and Bates offer different dimensions that needs to be leveraged  

[IU Scott 2,375]

21 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Johnson, Leal, Bates, Thompson, Jackson-Davis 

filter in:

Stewart, Kopp, Geronimo

 

that should be it unless guys get in foul trouble. 5 guys rotating the 1-3 and 3 guys rotating the 4-5.

these hockey line changes have to stop. And need Bates on the court to keep players honest as he can score equally on 3s, mid-range and at the rim. Kopp and Stewart pose zero threat inside the arc so they dont go in there which makes it super easy to guard and super stagnant. Likewise, Thompson and Jackson-Davis pose zero threat away from the basket so they don’t leave the basket which makes it easy to guard and super stagnant.

when a defense knows without a doubt that 4 out of the 5 players on offense won’t leave an area it’s cake.

Johnson and Bates offer different dimensions that needs to be leveraged  

So you are benching our best perimeter defender who had played 3 straight good games

[RaceToTheTop 25,622]

14 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Johnson, Leal, Bates, Thompson, Jackson-Davis 

filter in:

Stewart, Kopp, Geronimo

 

that should be it unless guys get in foul trouble. 5 guys rotating the 1-3 and 3 guys rotating the 4-5.

these hockey line changes have to stop. And need Bates on the court to keep players honest as he can score equally on 3s, mid-range and at the rim. Kopp and Stewart pose zero threat inside the arc so they dont go in there which makes it super easy to guard and super stagnant. Likewise, Thompson and Jackson-Davis pose zero threat away from the basket so they don’t leave the basket which makes it easy to guard and super stagnant.

when a defense knows without a doubt that 4 out of the 5 players on offense won’t leave an area it’s cake.

Johnson and Bates offer different dimensions that needs to be leveraged  

In terms of Kopp, factually he has more 2's than 3's both in his career and at IU.  He's not an at rim threat, but his mid range game is decent.  He definitely has to be guarded inside the arc.

Stewart, I'm not sure what is up with him.  He's a better three point shooter than was advertised, but I was expecting more of a guy that was a hybrid shooter/scorer. He never shoots inside the arc.

[MikeRoberts 6,998]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

So you are benching our best perimeter defender who had played 3 straight good games

No, if you are referring to Phinisee I have 4 years of proof that he is a liability and a motion, spacing, shooting liability. He kills any chance we have of improving

[RaceToTheTop 25,622]

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

So you are benching our best perimeter defender who had played 3 straight good games

Also forcing Bates or Stewart to play the point when X is out.

[IU Scott 2,375]

I complained about IU subbing all 5 out and PU has done this tonight as well.