IUBB vs Marshall - 11/27/21 @ 7:00 on BTN

[Southside]

37 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Banks will be good but if we are going to take this program to the next level we have to get to a point where we aren’t relying on non 5 star freshmen to come in and contribute. 
 

The lack of a big has to be addressed we either need a stud transfer or to keep TJD in Bloomington. 

TJD was a non-5star guy... just saying.

And Banks still has a year to play and could improve his 4 star rating. He's moved up 40 spots in the last 4 months.

I agree we need do better recruiting and developing, and a portal stud would help. But I also know it's very early in Woodson's career, and recruiting has already improved. And simply winning will attract better talent. Takes time. If you expect overnight success, you're going to be pretty disgruntled. 

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, Southside said:

TJD was a non-5star guy... just saying.

And Banks still has a year to play and could improve his 4 star rating. He's moved up 40 spots in the last 4 months.

I agree we need do better recruiting and developing, and a portal stud would help. But I also know it's very early in Woodson's career, and recruiting has already improved. And simply winning will attract better talent. Takes time. If you expect overnight success, you're going to be pretty disgruntled. 

Just because a high 4 star can possibly contribute doesn’t mean it’s a sound strategy. Otherwise Crean and Archie would have worked out. Imagine right now if Bates had to start 

[HoosierInParadise]

Just because a high 4 star can possibly contribute doesn’t mean it’s a sound strategy. Otherwise Crean and Archie would have worked out. Imagine right now if Bates had to start 

Crean and Archie also might have worked out if they had the ability to adapt their systems to their personnel. I have more confidence that Woodson would be willing and able to adapt to the teams strengths next year. Not saying we would be better, just saying he may make adjustments where the previous two coaches wouldn't and/or couldn't.

Sent from my SM-F926U1 using BtownBanners mobile app

[Hoosierfan2017]

16 minutes ago, Southside said:

TJD was a non-5star guy... just saying.

And Banks still has a year to play and could improve his 4 star rating. He's moved up 40 spots in the last 4 months.

I agree we need do better recruiting and developing, and a portal stud would help. But I also know it's very early in Woodson's career, and recruiting has already improved. And simply winning will attract better talent. Takes time. If you expect overnight success, you're going to be pretty disgruntled. 

That’s really splitting hairs on TJD, though. He was ranked 30th in his class and was the second highest 4 star in his class. He was rated at 0.989 and the lowest 5 star was a 0.9903. He was a McDonalds All American. You can count on a player like that contributing immediately. Banks is currently ranked 80th in his class. Totally different tiers of players. 

[LamarCheeks]

BTW, did anybody notice this ... 

We competed yesterday in football, men's soccer, men's basketball, women's basketball and volleyball. 

Only men's and women's basketball won. 

In my best Dick Vitale voice: WE'RE STILL A BASKETBALL SCHOOL, BAY-BEE! 
 

[Uspshoosier]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Just because a high 4 star can possibly contribute doesn’t mean it’s a sound strategy. Otherwise Crean and Archie would have worked out. Imagine right now if Bates had to start 

Bates is still a top 30 player and was a 5 star kid up until Duren and Bates from Memphis reclassified.  Since they reclassified he ended up with a 4 by his name instead of a 5.  They way it stands he is the first 4 star.   I imagine if Bates had to start everything  would be fine.  That would of been the case whether he had a 4 by his name or 5.  
 

 

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Bates is still a top 30 player and was a 5 star kid up until Duren and Bates from Memphis reclassified.  Since they reclassified he ended up with a 4 by his name instead of a 5.  They way it stands he is the first 4 star.   I imagine if Bates had to start everything  would be fine.  That would of been the case whether he had a 4 by his name or 5.  
 

 

Maybe so but I would much rather be in a position where High four stars are backing up veterans.  Than to have 4 stars starting being backed up by guys who still haven’t figured it out after several season. 

[Uspshoosier]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

Maybe so but I would much rather be in a position where High four stars are backing up veterans.  Than to have 4 stars starting being backed up by guys who still haven’t figured it out after several season. 

If Bates had a 5 star by his name you would be fine with him starting?

[Brass Cannon]

6 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

If Bates had a 5 star by his name you would be fine with him starting?

No.  I’m not saying 5 stars should automatically start. But if we are penciling in a freshmen to start and they aren’t a 5 star it’s a sign that the coaching staff isn’t doing their job. 
 

And even then you should have a savvy veteran to spot the 5 star when they struggle because they will struggle at times. 
 

All too often the last 11 years we have been starting freshmen 4 stars with 3 stars who never panned out backing them up 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

11 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

If Bates had a 5 star by his name you would be fine with him starting?

Depends who was ahead of him. 

[IUFAN1976]

1 hour ago, mbredenk101 said:

Crean and Archie also might have worked out if they had the ability to adapt their systems to their personnel. I have more confidence that Woodson would be willing and able to adapt to the teams strengths next year. Not saying we would be better, just saying he may make adjustments where the previous two coaches wouldn't and/or couldn't.

Sent from my SM-F926U1 using BtownBanners mobile app
 

I would say COULDN’T or didn’t know how. They only had one system and they weren’t successful in recruiting players to fit that system.  Woodson strikes me as an innovator and he can make adjustments to fit the personnel of his team!

[OliviaPope40]

I am worried about Tuesday's game hopefully we can figure out how to handle that annoying 2-3 zone. 

[Uspshoosier]

12 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

No.  I’m not saying 5 stars should automatically start. But if we are penciling in a freshmen to start and they aren’t a 5 star it’s a sign that the coaching staff isn’t doing their job. 
 

And even then you should have a savvy veteran to spot the 5 star when they struggle because they will struggle at times. 
 

All too often the last 11 years we have been starting freshmen 4 stars with 3 stars who never panned out backing them up 

There isn’t 1 answer or formula to become successful.  Plenty of examples of successful teams that evaluate non 5 stars and they fit right into their team as starters.  Also plenty examples where that formula doesn’t work for certain teams.  Plenty of different ways of building a successful program.  We shall see what way IU goes.  Their recruiting can give you a little insight though.  They recruited Clowney hard and wanted him really bad.  He was borderline top 100 kid that they  were wanting to come in and play right away.   Plenty of talent that can start everywhere 5,4,3 Star, transfer and international you just got to hope whoever they go after that the staff evaluates the recruits properly that fit the staffs culture they are wanting to create  

[HoosierHoopster]

2 hours ago, Hardwood83 said:

Agree with the assessment. He may choose to move on, but I have a hard time seeing him in the NBA. 

Some other guys this was often said about:

Cody

Bryant 

OG

could also add Yogi, who though he’s no longer in the League played his way in and made it and did well in Dallas then made a bad bet on Sacto. Troy was in for a spell too.

TJD should continue to develop the off hand, and jumper. He already has shown about everything else he needs to make it. Not yet first round, shooting could get him there. 

I don’t think he stays another season, if he continues to excel his ability to improve his draft stock in another season drops away. Working out for teams under the new draft rules will tell him a lot.

 

One thing is pretty certain— Woodson is right there to give good advice, with the NBA experience and connections. And it was largely Woodson pointing out his areas of weakness and what he needed to improve that brought him back for this season.

 

[Brass Cannon]

16 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

There isn’t 1 answer or formula to become successful.  Plenty of examples of successful teams that evaluate non 5 stars and they fit right into their team as starters.  Also plenty examples where that formula doesn’t work for certain teams.  Plenty of different ways of building a successful program.  We shall see what way IU goes.  Their recruiting can give you a little insight though.  They recruited Clowney hard and wanted him really bad.  He was borderline top 100 kid that they  were wanting to come in and play right away.   Plenty of talent that can start everywhere 5,4,3 Star, transfer and international you just got to hope whoever they go after that the staff evaluates the recruits properly that fit the staffs culture they are wanting to create  

I’m curious for examples of teams are elite and start 4 stars as freshmen consistently 

[Brass Cannon]

4 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Some other guys this was often said about:

Cody

Bryant 

OG

could also add Yogi, who though he’s no longer in the League played his way in and made it and did well in Dallas then made a bad bet on Sacto. Troy was in for a spell too.

TJD should continue to develop the off hand, and jumper. He already has shown about everything else he needs to make it. Not yet first round, shooting could get him there. 

I don’t think he stays another season, if he continues to excel his ability to improve his draft stock in another season drops away. Working out for teams under the new draft rules will tell him a lot.

 

All 3 of those guys were first round picks.  TJD does not appear to be a first round pick 

[bleedhoosier]

15 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

Durr doesn’t give us much at all, I think we’ve seen enough to know that. I would love to see Duncomb to see what our depth or lack there truly is. If Duncomb is worse than Durr we have no depth 

Agree. We have one heck of a duo with Race/TJD. I can't help but feel like we're going to see a deer in headlights with Duncomb for a few games but perhaps I'm wrong. I'd love to be because I'm afraid of running TJD down in 15 more games. 

[HoosierHoopster]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

All 3 of those guys were first round picks.  TJD does not appear to be a first round pick 

Read my post again on what could get him there. And btw Yogi was undrafted 

[Brass Cannon]

12 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Read my post again on what could get him there. And btw Yogi was undrafted 

Yogi stayed 4 years….   TJD isn’t on any first round mock drafts.  Doesn’t seem likely 

[HoosierHoopster]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Yogi stayed 4 years….   TJD isn’t on any first round mock drafts.  Doesn’t seem likely 

There are no certainties in predicting player draft likelihood generally and with a guy like TJD who hasn’t been projected - yet - it’s an open question. However, if he shows shooting and off-hand development over the season I’d be willing to bet money on it, and i’m not a betting guy. 
 

It’s easy and hindsight to say hey Cody was a first rounder etc, but that’s not the point - the point i made was that the same things were said, repeatedly, about him and the others — game doesn’t translate to the NBA, not athletic enough, etc. each had weaknesses in their game that made the move questionable (and Yogi only stayed all 4 because he had no shot at being drafted).
TJD is a consistent jumper / strong workout away from being drafted. He’s a dominant mobile big. Woodson will give him - as he has - the feedback he needs, and i’d bank on him shooting more as the season goes forward