Archie and Progress

[Old Friend]

Back to basketball and the explosive discussion....

Here's his record at IU and KenPom ratings year over year.   It is certainly not where any of us want it yet, but to deny the progress and trend in the right direction is intellectually dishonest.  Here you go :

https://twitter.com/cdrummond97/status/1242224608352153602?s=20

[8bucks]

I think it is clear we have improved but each of the first few years have presented some things that make it hard to get excited.

Year 1 incredibly bad first game vs ISU. Wow that was so disappointing. Chalk it up to just not knowing how to put in place his system but then just before the BT season we repeat the performance and lose to Ft Wayne. Losing to lower level teams happen but getting blown out is ....

Year 2 - losing 12 of 13 games. Many of those it seemed as if we just did not care.

Year 3 - it felt like every game we had a 5 plus minute scoring drought. So many games. So many droughts. How in year 3 can we have so many games where we just cannot score. I get it that Archie is a defensive guy and you would think when the offense is struggling the D would create offense but it just did not seem to do that much. Especially during our frequent droughts.

But, we have improved. Archie has recruited pretty well. We did not have the long losing streak nor the bad losses to bad teams this year. So I am hopeful and think we improve a little more next year.




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[TheWatShot]

Really getting tired of hearing that we improved this year because our final ranking was better. The main reason it was better is because 18-19 was such a complete and utter failure. 

[HoosierDYT]

20 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Really getting tired of hearing that we improved this year because our final ranking was better. The main reason it was better is because 18-19 was such a complete and utter failure. 

Nah. Coaching, player development, and overall success were better. We improved

[Hoosierfan2017]

That road record is brutal. He's lost more than 3/4 of his road games.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Archie needs to improve. He keeps jabbering about making changes yet we never see them. Time to put up or shut up. Don’t want Lunardi talking bad about your team? Coach better, play better and win some games. He will be what holds the program back. Time for him to realize it and make some changes or else he will fail as Mike Davis 2.0.


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[TXHoosierDaddy]

Yet to see a really good offense with Archie. Points are hard to come by. At some point this has to change if we are going to stop being a .500 BIG team and win a few more on the road. Year 4 he has to show improvement here. I don't care where the scoring comes from who else he brings in but its got to get better. 

[Old Friend]

2 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Really getting tired of hearing that we improved this year because our final ranking was better. The main reason it was better is because 18-19 was such a complete and utter failure. 

Really getting tired of blind negativity that doesn't acknowledge what actually happened.

[RaceToTheTop]

Anyone care to argue that this wasn’t the best IU team in Archie’s tenure?  Because if not, you aren’t arguing that this team didn’t improve...and did so after losing its top two scores.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Really getting tired of blind negativity that doesn't acknowledge what actually happened.

Where’s the blind negativity? The offense sucks. Those are just facts.


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[Stuhoo]

 

16-15 No tourney

19-16 NIT

20-12 NCAA

That is steady progress. Oversimplified, or just plain ol' true?

 

[IUc2016]

The record has improved every year (even with the schedule getting tougher each year), Kenpom numbers have improved, AND the overall roster talent has improved. 

Is it perfect? hell no. I wish we were further along, of course. But this program right now isn't what most think it is and that is the real problem. It has taken more time, but it is definitely trending in the right direction. 

[NashvilleHoosier]

11 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Really getting tired of hearing that we improved this year because our final ranking was better. The main reason it was better is because 18-19 was such a complete and utter failure. 

So what you're saying is that.......we improved this year. :-)

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

The record has improved every year (even with the schedule getting tougher each year), Kenpom numbers have improved, AND the overall roster talent has improved. 
Is it perfect? hell no. I wish we were further along, of course. But this program right now isn't what most think it is and that is the real problem. It has taken more time, but it is definitely trending in the right direction. 

People don’t have a problem with the record. It’s the quality of basketball being played. It’s still really bad.


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[hoosierdaddy_72]

11 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Really getting tired of hearing that we improved this year because our final ranking was better. The main reason it was better is because 18-19 was such a complete and utter failure. 

and yet 18-19 was an improvement on 17-18.  

[NashvilleHoosier]

55 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

16-15 No tourney

19-16 NIT

20-12 NCAA

That is steady progress. Oversimplified, or just plain ol' true?

 

The most unfortunate part of this whole thread/discussion is the what if scenario for this season that Archie will never have a chance to achieve. Even if we lose to Penn St. we still make the tourney. Even if we lose our first round game, that 3rd year stands at 20-14, NCAA. Your statement about steady progress remains true, especially given the additional context of losing your two best players from the previous team and having to navigate a more difficult conference overall this season. 

But the what if.... 

We could have beaten Penn St. Carrying that momentum forward with a strong IU crowd in Indy and a deeper run would not have been crazy. But let's assume we stop there and go into the tourney at 21-13. This team had just as much of a chance to surprise people and get to the second weekend as they did to crash out it the first round. It's not unrealistic to think that 3rd year could have read: 23-14, NCAA Sweet Sixteen (or more?). At that point, this thread/discussion is much less a debate on whether and how much we improved, and more a discussion on how we can continue the trajectory of improvement. 

[IUc2016]

2 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

People don’t have a problem with the record. It’s the quality of basketball being played. It’s still really bad.


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probably why I didn't just post the record? Looking at the entire picture this program is in the right direction. I EVEN admitted it wasn't perfect. So not sure what you're quoting me for

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

probably why I didn't just post the record? Looking at the entire picture this program is in the right direction. I EVEN admitted it wasn't perfect. So not sure what you're quoting me for

Because there hasn’t been progress with quality. It’s still bad. Sloppy, lazy, bad shooting, bad coaching, bad substitutions and rotations. We are just lucky that the quality of basketball as a whole went down. From talent leaving, players adjusting to a deeper 3pt line and god awful officiating. Still didn’t crack the Top 25. Still got spanked in multiple games. Still have 5-10 minute scoring droughts. Archie is still just a talker. There’s an incredible amount that needs to be improved on. It was still just awful basketball.


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[IUc2016]

3 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Because there hasn’t been progress with quality. It’s still bad. Sloppy, lazy, bad shooting, bad coaching, bad substitutions and rotations. We are just lucky that the quality of basketball as a whole went down. From talent leaving, players adjusting to a deeper 3pt line and god awful officiating. Still didn’t crack the Top 25. Still got spanked in multiple games. Still have 5-10 minute scoring droughts. Archie is still just a talker. There’s an incredible amount that needs to be improved on. It was still just awful basketball.


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I think we all agree on this no matter which side of the fence you sit on. 

[Stuhoo]

7 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Because there hasn’t been progress with quality. It’s still bad. Sloppy, lazy, bad shooting, bad coaching, bad substitutions and rotations. We are just lucky that the quality of basketball as a whole went down. From talent leaving, players adjusting to a deeper 3pt line and god awful officiating. Still didn’t crack the Top 25. Still got spanked in multiple games. Still have 5-10 minute scoring droughts. Archie is still just a talker. There’s an incredible amount that needs to be improved on. It was still just awful basketball.


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Do you really think this way?

It is impossible to counter these type of bootstrapped over-broad broadsides. Your conclusions fly in the face of evidence, logic, and nuance.

I think continuing to debate this with you is the IUBB assessment equivalent of “wrestling with a pig”; you both will get really dirty and only the pig will like it.