Negativity Thread

[LamarCheeks]

16 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

And for goodness sake if IU is sick of paying buyouts they could do one of two things: 1) stop signing coaches to absurdly long contracts 2) get the hire right in the first place

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I agree with your No. 2 -- get the hire right in the first place. I also would say stop including such cost-prohibitive buyouts in the first place. These coaches are making $2M and $3M and $4M a year in the first place. What's the need for paying these guys a truckload of money if they're not working out? If things are going well and they're winning, there would be no need to fire anybody -- or consider doing so. But as far as lengthy contracts? I think a six- or seven- or eight-year deal is pretty typical for a Power 5 men's basketball or football coach. Holtmann got eight years. Mack got seven. Shaka Smart got seven from Texas. So Archie's seven years is pretty much in line with the industry standard. 

[Brass Cannon]

19 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

And for goodness sake if IU is sick of paying buyouts they could do one of two things: 1) stop signing coaches to absurdly long contracts 2) get the hire right in the first place

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[Chris007]

27 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

I agree with your No. 2 -- get the hire right in the first place. I also would say stop including such cost-prohibitive buyouts in the first place. These coaches are making $2M and $3M and $4M a year in the first place. What's the need for paying these guys a truckload of money if they're not working out? If things are going well and they're winning, there would be no need to fire anybody -- or consider doing so. But as far as lengthy contracts? I think a six- or seven- or eight-year deal is pretty typical for a Power 5 men's basketball or football coach. Holtmann got eight years. Mack got seven. Shaka Smart got seven from Texas. So Archie's seven years is pretty much in line with the industry standard. 

I think the coaches agents put those in so their client can at least get one recruiting class through before being on the hot seat. If I'm Archie I'm fine taking the buyout, watching my daughter go to school and collecting 12 million the next few years. From what I've heard Shaka is done in Texas. Last night was a must-win. Chris Beard will be there next year. 

[8bucks]

I think the coaches agents put those in so their client can at least get one recruiting class through before being on the hot seat. If I'm Archie I'm fine taking the buyout, watching my daughter go to school and collecting 12 million the next few years. From what I've heard Shaka is done in Texas. Last night was a must-win. Chris Beard will be there next year. 

You mentioned before that we actually did have discussions with Donovan but we backed off because he needed more $ for assistants. Any idea whether we just floating things for a discussion purpose or if we had gotten down to some final details.

You may not know this but any idea if we had concerns he would get cold feet again like he has in the past?


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[Josh]

Somewhat side note, Billy Donovan is getting the court at University of Florida named after him on Saturday

[mdn82]

My thing is I want us to tank big or win big. I would rather us tank big this year than win enough to make tourney if that is our ceiling. Imo the 2021 class is too important not to have a stable situation in place.


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[Lebowski]

2 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

My thing is I want us to tank big or win big. I would rather us tank big this year than win enough to make tourney if that is our ceiling. Imo the 2021 class is too important not to have a stable situation in place.


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I just want a team that has a decent basketball IQ, plays solid/grit/hustle defense and makes 70-75% of their free throws.  In my opinion, a coach that can get those three things out of his/her players is a really good recipe for success.  Recruiting classes come and go but those three things from a team, I think, is effective.

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

I'm with a lot of others in thinking coaching salaries and buyouts are out of hand but this link is to major D1 coaching salaries and their buyouts as of April 2019.  In particular, just look at how many of the top 25 on the list have buyouts in excess of $10 million.  The point isn't to debate Archie's standing on the list but rather that it's going to take big bucks to land the caliber of coach everyone wants.  Salary, extras and buyout.

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

Several overlapping threads so sometimes hard to know which is the best thread for certain thoughts.  The product we're putting on the court, all the negativity from the fanbase along with a new AD on the horizon and I think back to Jordan Tucker's recruitment.  Crean seemed to have him locked up for IU but Tucker waited and waited to commit because he had concerns about Crean's tenure and his concerns proved to be valid.  What 'Jordan Tucker's' do we have in the '21 class that might be very happy to commit to Archie and IU but aren't going to commit early because of those same kinds of  concerns?

[OldBuddy67]

3 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Several overlapping threads so sometimes hard to know which is the best thread for certain thoughts.  The product we're putting on the court, all the negativity from the fanbase along with a new AD on the horizon and I think back to Jordan Tucker's recruitment.  Crean seemed to have him locked up for IU but Tucker waited and waited to commit because he had concerns about Crean's tenure and his concerns proved to be valid.  What 'Jordan Tucker's' do we have in the '21 class that might be very happy to commit to Archie and IU but aren't going to commit early because of those same kinds of  concerns?

Trey Kaufman

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

Reminder to keep voting for Brenna Wise.  She's currently in 2nd place but not by much.  Vote as many times as you can.

http://www.seniorclassaward.com/vote/womens_basketball_2019-20/

[Brass Cannon]

Wow not a big fan of +/- but -15 for Devonte is damn impressive from last Saturday.  

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Exactly Lebowski!!! How bout schools like Louisville and Butler in the last two years?!? Everyone knows the issues Louisville has had yet Mack has them in the Top 5. Butler was down 1 year and now Jordan has them rolling! 
It's maddening that Archie has the recruiting budget, fans, tradition, etc amongst many other things of a fading fast blue blood like IU! He's in over his head! Sad what IU had become! 

Wouldn’t exactly say Butler is rolling right now. They might be 19th but they are still 6-5 in conference.


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[OldBuddy67]

17 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Wouldn’t exactly say Butler is rolling right now. They might be 19th but they are still 6-5 in conference.


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Fair enough. However they are ranked and will be in the NCAA tournament. As well they have had more success in the last 10 years than IU.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Fair enough. However they are ranked and will be in the NCAA tournament. As well they have had more success in the last 10 years than IU.

They have and over 3 different coaches.


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[Capt. Crimson]

19 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Indiana Basketball needs a coach similar to Donald Trump

I stopped reading here. lol 

[theriverpilot]

I know this is a venting thread, and trust me, I'm just as frustrated as everyone else regarding level of play, lack of progress, etc.  But if Archie is run off after 3 years (which I highly doubt will happen), what "homerun" hire would realistically want to come here??  Even if he's let go after year four, the message to a new prospective coach is you have 3-4 years to figure it out, then we're hitting the reset button. 

We're on our 4th coach (technically 5th if you count Dakich) since Knight (2000).   Going off of past experience, it seems to me we'd end up settling on option 2, 3, or 4 again after hitting the reset button and back in the same rut.  Do we really believe a Stevens, Beard, Few, Bennett, Pearl, etc would come here after that precedent?

[lillurk]

9 minutes ago, theriverpilot said:

I know this is a venting thread, and trust me, I'm just as frustrated as everyone else regarding level of play, lack of progress, etc.  But if Archie is run off after 3 years (which I highly doubt will happen), what "homerun" hire would realistically want to come here??  Even if he's let go after year four, the message to a new prospective coach is you have 3-4 years to figure it out, then we're hitting the reset button. 

We're on our 4th coach (technically 5th if you count Dakich) since Knight (2000).   Going off of past experience, it seems to me we'd end up settling on option 2, 3, or 4 again after hitting the reset button and back in the same rut.  Do we really believe a Stevens, Beard, Few, Bennett, Pearl, etc would come here after that precedent?

Frankly, I think an average high major new coach should get IU to the tournament in year 1 or 2 (unless they inherit a post-Sampson mess). Maybe the climb to the level of success and consistency has some ups and downs but programs change quickly in basketball.

[lillurk]

You can complain about administrative support all you want but the budget is there and the cupboard wasn’t bare (and at this point the cupboard is definitely the new coach’s responsibility).

[MikeRoberts]

I know this is a venting thread, and trust me, I'm just as frustrated as everyone else regarding level of play, lack of progress, etc.  But if Archie is run off after 3 years (which I highly doubt will happen), what "homerun" hire would realistically want to come here??  Even if he's let go after year four, the message to a new prospective coach is you have 3-4 years to figure it out, then we're hitting the reset button. 

We're on our 4th coach (technically 5th if you count Dakich) since Knight (2000).   Going off of past experience, it seems to me we'd end up settling on option 2, 3, or 4 again after hitting the reset button and back in the same rut.  Do we really believe a Stevens, Beard, Few, Bennett, Pearl, etc would come here after that precedent?

Yes, that wouldn’t be a barrier or even an issue. Any coach we would go after would look at 0-3 in making the tourney at IU and think it’s only up from here.

 

There are very few coaches that would see that as acceptable to go 0-3.

 

 

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