Fred Glass Retiring

[Old Friend]

1 hour ago, mdn82 said:

I would try and center myself instead of looking for the worst possible outcome in every scenario. Being introspective, I would say that’s more of a me problem if I started feeling that way.


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What he said.

When did we start expecting failure?  Surely, you ALL can't be closet Purdue fans or Cubs fans?   More and more, I see people here who have zero ability to see what's going on and base opinion solely on numbers from the past without taking truth and circumstances into consideration.   I hope you're not sales people who have an explainable bad quarter...you'll lose your own job, and your words here would completely justify it.   In fewer words, I see some people who don't know what they're talking about.   Same guys who said "FIRE TOM ALLEN!" 3 games into this season.   That didn't age well...and I haven't seen one of those bozos say they were wrong.  Same here.  Fire Archie?  Fire Glass?  Before everything plays out?   They have no idea what they're talking about.   Sorry if that offends those who want to fire everybody every season, but that's how I see it.

There are some facts or at least some loose facts here....which are either being missed or ignored :

Archie took over a bad team and had no impact freshmen.  Crean left the cupboard bare.  Fact.

Archie installed a system almost 180* different than Crean's, and didn't have the athletes yet to succeed in that system.  Fact.

In year 1, not a single recruit of Archie's played even a single minute.   Fact.

In year 2, Indiana dealt with significant injuries to key players all season.   Fact.   (And still beat Michigan State twice, so I'd say that constitutes at the very least "hope.")

In year 2, Indiana played all season with some level of expectation for showcasing a single player (Romeo) who sat the NIT out with a mysterious back injury.   Fact.

In year 2, Indiana had little depth in the front court, and whose best and most experienced player was 6'7"..  A problem which has definitely been addressed.

In year 2, Indiana had significant dead weight on its roster; all of which has been jettisoned or graduated.   Fact.  (Moore, Forrester, McRoberts - who I liked, but who was hurt and ineffective all season, and Fitzner are all gone along with Romeo)  Replaced by Jackson-Davis, Brunk, Franklin, and Hunter.  That's a net gain by any measure.

I would submit and stand behind this is really year 2 for Archie.  Many gave Crean a pass for 3 seasons, and I will never understand how some think it's so easy to "win right away" when a new coach is hired.    I wonder if some really understand what they're saying or college sports in general.    I doubt many saw the on-floor growth in Indiana last season, but at the end, it was obvious if you really looked.  Assuming health, I think Indiana will surprise a lot of people this season, and next season, when we have depth and talent all over the floor (more so if we get Garcia), the trend really goes up.   I am very bullish on Archie.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

What he said.
When did we start expecting failure?  Surely, you ALL can't be closet Purdue fans or Cubs fans?   More and more, I see people here who have zero ability to see what's going on and base opinion solely on numbers from the past without taking truth and circumstances into consideration.   I hope you're not sales people who have an explainable bad quarter...you'll lose your own job, and your words here would completely justify it.   In fewer words, I see some people who don't know what they're talking about.   Same guys who said "FIRE TOM ALLEN!" 3 games into this season.   That didn't age well...and I haven't seen one of those bozos say they were wrong.  Same here.  Fire Archie?  Fire Glass?  Before everything plays out?   They have no idea what they're talking about.   Sorry if that offends those who want to fire everybody every season, but that's how I see it.
There are some facts or at least some loose facts here....which are either being missed or ignored :
Archie took over a bad team and had no impact freshmen.  Crean left the cupboard bare.  Fact.
Archie installed a system almost 180* different than Crean's, and didn't have the athletes yet to succeed in that system.  Fact.
In year 1, not a single recruit of Archie's played even a single minute.   Fact.
In year 2, Indiana dealt with significant injuries to key players all season.   Fact.   (And still beat Michigan State twice, so I'd say that constitutes at the very least "hope.")
In year 2, Indiana played all season with some level of expectation for showcasing a single player (Romeo) who sat the NIT out with a mysterious back injury.   Fact.
In year 2, Indiana had little depth in the front court, and whose best and most experienced player was 6'7"..  A problem which has definitely been addressed.
In year 2, Indiana had significant dead weight on its roster; all of which has been jettisoned or graduated.   Fact.  (Moore, Forrester, McRoberts - who I liked, but who was hurt and ineffective all season, and Fitzner are all gone along with Romeo)  Replaced by Jackson-Davis, Brunk, Franklin, and Hunter.  That's a net gain by any measure.
I would submit and stand behind this is really year 2 for Archie.  Many gave Crean a pass for 3 seasons, and I will never understand how some think it's so easy to "win right away" when a new coach is hired.    I wonder if some really understand what they're saying or college sports in general.    I doubt many saw the on-floor growth in Indiana last season, but at the end, it was obvious if you really looked.  Assuming health, I think Indiana will surprise a lot of people this season, and next season, when we have depth and talent all over the floor (more so if we get Garcia), the trend really goes up.   I am very bullish on Archie.

Crean got a 2 year pass because he started with Kyle Taber.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Indiana should make the tourney year 4. No excuses. If Smith, Al and TJD return plus we get Garcia, expectations will be to win the B1G.


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[southernindianahoosier2]

What he said.
When did we start expecting failure?  Surely, you ALL can't be closet Purdue fans or Cubs fans?   More and more, I see people here who have zero ability to see what's going on and base opinion solely on numbers from the past without taking truth and circumstances into consideration.   I hope you're not sales people who have an explainable bad quarter...you'll lose your own job, and your words here would completely justify it.   In fewer words, I see some people who don't know what they're talking about.   Same guys who said "FIRE TOM ALLEN!" 3 games into this season.   That didn't age well...and I haven't seen one of those bozos say they were wrong.  Same here.  Fire Archie?  Fire Glass?  Before everything plays out?   They have no idea what they're talking about.   Sorry if that offends those who want to fire everybody every season, but that's how I see it.
There are some facts or at least some loose facts here....which are either being missed or ignored :
Archie took over a bad team and had no impact freshmen.  Crean left the cupboard bare.  Fact.
Archie installed a system almost 180* different than Crean's, and didn't have the athletes yet to succeed in that system.  Fact.
In year 1, not a single recruit of Archie's played even a single minute.   Fact.
In year 2, Indiana dealt with significant injuries to key players all season.   Fact.   (And still beat Michigan State twice, so I'd say that constitutes at the very least "hope.")
In year 2, Indiana played all season with some level of expectation for showcasing a single player (Romeo) who sat the NIT out with a mysterious back injury.   Fact.
In year 2, Indiana had little depth in the front court, and whose best and most experienced player was 6'7"..  A problem which has definitely been addressed.
In year 2, Indiana had significant dead weight on its roster; all of which has been jettisoned or graduated.   Fact.  (Moore, Forrester, McRoberts - who I liked, but who was hurt and ineffective all season, and Fitzner are all gone along with Romeo)  Replaced by Jackson-Davis, Brunk, Franklin, and Hunter.  That's a net gain by any measure.
I would submit and stand behind this is really year 2 for Archie.  Many gave Crean a pass for 3 seasons, and I will never understand how some think it's so easy to "win right away" when a new coach is hired.    I wonder if some really understand what they're saying or college sports in general.    I doubt many saw the on-floor growth in Indiana last season, but at the end, it was obvious if you really looked.  Assuming health, I think Indiana will surprise a lot of people this season, and next season, when we have depth and talent all over the floor (more so if we get Garcia), the trend really goes up.   I am very bullish on Archie.

I hear what you are saying. My point is, when compared to Holtmann and Mack, he’s not looking good at this point in time.

I’ll give him a pass on year one, but last year I firmly believe we under achieved, regardless of the circumstances. If and IF we miss the tournament again, I’d be ready to move on if we could get Chris Beard.

I don’t want a CTC thing to happen where we make the S16 and everyone loses their minds. I worry that Archie could be similar in the sense that our teams are 1 dimensional and under achieve in the long term.

I’m not writing him off, but if I were the AD I’d fire him after a third consecutive miss.


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[HoosierAloha]

When the **** did Old Friend become the most optimistic poster on basketball threads?! The world is ******* ending.


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[Uspshoosier]

I hear what you are saying. My point is, when compared to Holtmann and Mack, he’s not looking good at this point in time.

I’ll give him a pass on year one, but last year I firmly believe we under achieved, regardless of the circumstances. If and IF we miss the tournament again, I’d be ready to move on if we could get Chris Beard.

I don’t want a CTC thing to happen where we make the S16 and everyone loses their minds. I worry that Archie could be similar in the sense that our teams are 1 dimensional and under achieve in the long term.

I’m not writing him off, but if I were the AD I’d fire him after a third consecutive miss.


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Compared to Holtmann and Mack he looks pretty much the same at this point in time. All coaches that haven’t coached a game past the second round with their new teams


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Compared to Holtmann and Mack he looks pretty much the same at this point in time. All coaches that haven’t coached a game past the second round with their new teams


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Except Mack is starting his second season with Louisville ranked #5 in the AP and the Cosches poll and Holtman has OSU ranked #18 in the AP and #16 in the Coaches. In Archie’s first two seasons we have spent 6 weeks in the AP Poll. SIX. 21st being the highest. Mack had Louisville with 5 weeks in his first season with the highest being 15th. Holtmann has had Ohio State in the polls for 16 weeks with the highest being 8th in 2018. Last season was the season for Archie and the team fell flat on their faces. The excuses of injuries can be made, but the stretch of losses was embarrassing. 3-4 good wins doesn’t hide the bad losses he’s had over the past two seasons. Lost to Indiana State 90-69 in his first ever game. Lost to IPFW 92-72. Lost to Michigan State 85-57. Then lost to Rutgers in the first round of the B1G tourney. Lost to Duke last season 90-69 in embarrassing fashion. Got worked by Michigan 74-63, Nebraska 66-51, Purdue 70-55. Lost to Northwestern in embarrassing fashion. Got worked again by Michigan. Lost to Rutgers in yet another embarrassing game. Minnesota steamrolled us 84-63. Lost to Iowa in OT after leading for the whole game. Then lost to Ohio State in the biggest game of Archie’s career and that game was embarrassing for the most part as it seemed no one cared to for 3/4 of the game. But yet fans don’t care about any of those games because we beat MSU twice, Wisconsin once and Marquette.


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[Uspshoosier]

Except Mack is starting his second season with Louisville ranked #5 in the AP and the Cosches poll and Holtman has OSU ranked #18 in the AP and #16 in the Coaches. In Archie’s first two seasons we have spent 6 weeks in the AP Poll. SIX. 21st being the highest. Mack had Louisville with 5 weeks in his first season with the highest being 15th. Holtmann has had Ohio State in the polls for 16 weeks with the highest being 8th in 2018. Last season was the season for Archie and the team fell flat on their faces. The excuses of injuries can be made, but the stretch of losses was embarrassing. 3-4 good wins doesn’t hide the bad losses he’s had over the past two seasons. Lost to Indiana State 90-69 in his first ever game. Lost to IPFW 92-72. Lost to Michigan State 85-57. Then lost to Rutgers in the first round of the B1G tourney. Lost to Duke last season 90-69 in embarrassing fashion. Got worked by Michigan 74-63, Nebraska 66-51, Purdue 70-55. Lost to Northwestern in embarrassing fashion. Got worked again by Michigan. Lost to Rutgers in yet another embarrassing game. Minnesota steamrolled us 84-63. Lost to Iowa in OT after leading for the whole game. Then lost to Ohio State in the biggest game of Archie’s career and that game was embarrassing for the most part as it seemed no one cared to for 3/4 of the game. But yet fans don’t care about any of those games because we beat MSU twice, Wisconsin once and Marquette.

 

 

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Mack also lost head to head Archie. Lost in embarrassing fashion by blowing a +20 plus lead to Duke at home. Lost 9 of their last 13. Pretty impressive as well

 

Holtmann last year finished with an impressive 8-12 record in the B1G tied with the Hoosiers. Lost 5 in a row at one point. Lost 14 of their last 22. Didn’t beat any top 5 team that finished in the B1G. But yet fans don’t care about any of those games because Mack and Holtmann are so far ahead of Archie......lol. Still none of the 3 have coached a game past the second round with their new teams.

 

 

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[fwgreenway]

6 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Surely, you ALL can't be closet Purdue fans or Cubs fans?

I don't know about the rest of this thread, but that right there is funny!

ps) my apologies to our resident cub fans.....pu fans . . . not so much.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Mack also lost head to head Archie. Lost in embarrassing fashion by blowing a +20 plus lead to Duke at home. Lost 9 of their last 13. Pretty impressive as well
 
Holtmann last year finished with an impressive 8-12 record in the B1G tied with the Hoosiers. Lost 5 in a row at one point. Lost 14 of their last 22. Didn’t beat any top 5 team that finished in the B1G. But yet fans don’t care about any of those games because Mack and Holtmann are so far ahead of Archie......lol. Still none of the 3 have coached a game past the second round with their new teams.
 
 
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And none of that still equals to what Archie hasn’t done at IU. We do have 5 wins over ranked teams under Archie. Mack has 4 and one of those is MSU as well. So MSU was bad against bad teams like UofL and IU? Which UofL did end up making the NCAA tourney and going to the 2nd round. Holtmann has only beaten 3 ranked teams which isn’t good. Though one of those was also Michigan State in his first season when they were #1. He also has 2 NCAA tourney wins. Which is still better than Archie. So both of them are still doing better than Archie and there really isn’t any arguing about it.


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[Uspshoosier]

And none of that still equals to what Archie hasn’t done at IU. We do have 5 wins over ranked teams under Archie. Mack has 4 and one of those is MSU as well. So MSU was bad against bad teams like UofL and IU? Which UofL did end up making the NCAA tourney and going to the 2nd round. Holtmann has only beaten 3 ranked teams which isn’t good. Though one of those was also Michigan State in his first season when they were #1. He also has 2 NCAA tourney wins. Which is still better than Archie. So both of them are still doing better than Archie and there really isn’t any arguing about it.


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And still they haven’t coached pass the second round of the tourney with their new teams[emoji6]



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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

And still they haven’t coached pass the second round of the tourney with their new teams[emoji6]



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And Archie still hasn’t coached past the 2nd round of the B1G tourney or even made the NCAA tourney.


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[Uspshoosier]

And Archie still hasn’t coached past the 2nd round of the B1G tourney or even made the NCAA tourney.

 

 

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yeah I’m aware I watch college basketball. That’s a huuuuge gap between not making the tourney and getting to the second round. Good to know your expectations for a coach are making it to the second round  

 

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[Uspshoosier]

Happy Birthday coach Miller


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

yeah I’m aware I watch college basketball. That’s a huuuuge gap between not making the tourney and getting to the second round. Good to know your expectations for a coach are making it to the second round   
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Well you say they are on the same level, but they clearly aren’t. In terms of success, Archie hasn’t done anything. Both of those coaches have started off much better by just making the NCAA tourney.


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[Uspshoosier]

Well you say they are on the same level, but they clearly aren’t. In terms of success, Archie hasn’t done anything. Both of those coaches have started off much better by just making the NCAA tourney.

 

 

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Clearly they are on the same level [emoji6]

They are coaches that haven’t coached pass the second round of the tourney with their new teams

 

 

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[Alford Bailey]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

And none of that still equals to what Archie hasn’t done at IU. We do have 5 wins over ranked teams under Archie. Mack has 4 and one of those is MSU as well. So MSU was bad against bad teams like UofL and IU? Which UofL did end up making the NCAA tourney and going to the 2nd round. Holtmann has only beaten 3 ranked teams which isn’t good. Though one of those was also Michigan State in his first season when they were #1. He also has 2 NCAA tourney wins. Which is still better than Archie. So both of them are still doing better than Archie and there really isn’t any arguing about it.


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Hard to argue when your guy cant make a tourney. Ive said in the past I wanted to compare Archie and Holtmann at the five year mark. Archie needs to catch up this year.

[Old Friend]

4 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

And none of that still equals to what Archie hasn’t done at IU. We do have 5 wins over ranked teams under Archie. Mack has 4 and one of those is MSU as well. So MSU was bad against bad teams like UofL and IU? Which UofL did end up making the NCAA tourney and going to the 2nd round. Holtmann has only beaten 3 ranked teams which isn’t good. Though one of those was also Michigan State in his first season when they were #1. He also has 2 NCAA tourney wins. Which is still better than Archie. So both of them are still doing better than Archie and there really isn’t any arguing about it.


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You are so full of your own bullsh*t, I think there's no argument with you.   You have zero sense of context, no grasp of reality, and you have no basis for your opinions except raw data that requires zero thought or application.   I'm more than happy to argue about it with you because you have no ability at all to accept or apply the "why" to anything.  You're clearly someone who uses the abstract  of what hasn't happened yet to make you believe you're right until you're proven wrong.

You moved right from "Fire Tom Allen" to "Archie isn't good enough" even after your "Fire Tom Allen" stance was blown to crap because you were proven wrong.....after you used the same garbage arguments about HIM because ______ hadn't happened yet and you had no ability to actually see or understand what was happening.   I told you 4-5 weeks ago to open your eyes and you obviously didn't.  Maybe you have now, but you've moved on even after being proven completely idiotic.  The same is true here.   Do yourself a favor and also one for everyone here and use some circumstantial application.  Show some comprehension of the situation.  Your negativity is poisonous and it's also pathetic.  But your lack of situational awareness is actually comical.

 

Edit :  Here.  I posted this earlier and I know you saw it.  Consider this pointed directly at your berth.      More and more, I see people here who have zero ability to see what's going on and base opinion solely on numbers from the past without taking truth and circumstances into consideration.   I hope you're not sales people who have an explainable bad quarter...you'll lose your own job, and your words here would completely justify it.   In fewer words, I see some people who don't know what they're talking about.   Same guys who said "FIRE TOM ALLEN!" 3 games into this season.   That didn't age well...and I haven't seen one of those bozos say they were wrong.  Same here.  Fire Archie?  Fire Glass?  Before everything plays out?   They have no idea what they're talking about. 

[Old Friend]

3 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

Hard to argue when your guy cant make a tourney. Ive said in the past I wanted to compare Archie and Holtmann at the five year mark. Archie needs to catch up this year.

Why?   Why is this year the key year?  The general trend of the program is more positive than it's been in years; and this is only the second season any of his players have played at Indiana.   I think they WILL make the tournament and surprise a lot of people, but Holtmann and Mack walked into different situations than Archie did, and if we agree (and many did) the best strategy for Archie and his system is to get old and stay old, doesn't it make some sense to let his roster GET old first??   This "win now or else" thing is exhausting. He'll win....some of you may just have to be a little patient before you get what you want.

[jk34]

3 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Well you say they are on the same level, but they clearly aren’t. In terms of success, Archie hasn’t done anything. Both of those coaches have started off much better by just making the NCAA tourney.


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Archie has been to the E8