Ed Schilling Leaving, Mike Roberts Arriving

[Brass Cannon]

Are any of the current great coaches aggressive 

[MoyeNeeded]

3 minutes ago, Fkfootball1 said:

 

Maybe it’s just his demeanor. And I can’t fault him for that. Everyone has their own personality. But it’s just the vibe I get from him. I just don’t feel a real sense of urgency in this program. Archie seems to always be on cruise control. And that to me, is because he feels he has an extremely long leash. And with Frederick Glass, I would pretty much guarantee that he does.


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First, a coach should get a full recruiting cycle before feeling all of the pressure that you think the administration should heap on him. I kinda like a coach that is not jacked up on caffeine offering every Jeremiah April out there. He has zeroed in on his targets and the offers are extended. Unfortunately with our recent history, we are not in the position to push the timelines of most of our targets. A large percentage of top tier recruits are still uncommitted. Second, we don't know if there has been an assistant targeted or offered. If CAM thinks that the staff can function without one at this time that is his choosing. He runs the program and knows what is needed at this juncture.

[Stuhoo]

4 minutes ago, Fkfootball1 said:

 

 

It’s more about his approach to the program. I just don’t think he’s aggressive enough about it.


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I can see where that feeling comes from. I get a different feeling; that Archie is an extremely private person. Also an extremely intense person. 

Crean "overshared" his personality, and that did not go over well.

Tom Allen is also an oversharer, but is apparently so well liked that when he shares, people are glad he did.

Archie will likely never tell a personalized story, gush about his kids or his players, or try to be the life of the party. That doesn't mean that behind closed doors he is passive.

 

[mdn82]

Are any of the current great coaches aggressive 

Exactly. They have specific roles played out for players, assistant coaches, boosters, and shoe companies. I don’t really know how “aggressive” a coach can be? Aggressive in recruiting? I think we are that in the state based on a specific want from boosters and fans. We could and have to play a whole of a hell lot better. But what he is doing on August 1st, a dead period? How can he be more aggressive? That’s what I don’t get.


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[Josh]

1 hour ago, Fkfootball1 said:

I really believe that Archie just lacks a real sense of urgency. You see it in recruiting. I saw it during the long losing streak last year. He’s taking a ridiculous amount of time to find an Assistant Coach. I know that I’m going to get tomatoed for this, but I really think this guy coaches IU like he has a 15 year guarantee. He’s just not in a hurry.


Look at the sense of urgency from Tom Allen. Tireless worker. Tireless recruiter. Always selling the program. Makes Coordinator changes. Makes his coaching moves quickly.


And this is a guy with a whole lot less pressure on him.


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I definitely think he was too slow in making changes during our streak of 12 losses in the middle of the conference season.  Iirc, he stated he was going to make changes after about 8 losses (which he never seemed to make) which caused Jake's dad to lose it on twitter.  He doesn't seem to adjust his approach.  Is it because he's so confident?  No urgency?  Who knows.  But I can understand what you're saying.

[Stuhoo]

12 minutes ago, Fkfootball1 said:

 

Look at how Chris Mack, Fred Hoiberg, Chris Holtman approached their new jobs. They leave no stone unturned. None. The guys are always selling their program. 24/7. We missed the boat on Chris Holtman and Chris Mack. This will haunt IU fans for the next 15 years just like Beilein did.


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^^I just don't get it^^

Holtman was 8-12 in conference last year, and one game better than us overall. He has recruited well, but so have we. 

Mack was 20-14 last year (and quite good in the ACC), 1.5 games better than us. He inherited a pretty well-stocked cupboard, but he's also taking a big risk, because UL may be due for some severe punishment. 

Don't get me wrong; I truly think that Mack and Holtman are very good! I just don't see the empirical evidence that they have a markedly different style or one/two year performance than Archie.

Hoiberg? He has assembled a roster of truly the wretched refuse from transfers and junior colleges. He was not able to retain any of the (mediocre) talent he inherited. He was also run out of town in Chicago - consecutive records of 42-40, 41-41, 27-55, 5-19 (fired). He's doing a small town tour of Nebraska currently. Is that what you mean by leaving no stone un-turned? Methinks he can look under every stone in that State and he won't find many/any worth of a spot on a B1G roster.

 

[Uspshoosier]

Seems he does a lot of his stuff behind the scenes or privately. Not sure that lacks aggressiveness. I know he is the first coach to actually get some things changed in the program so they are not set back in the 90’s. Updating locker rooms that were so outdated that mid majors had better ones. Keeping up and updated Cook Hall. Getting the athletic department to open the bank and actually pay a decent amount for buy games so the schedule wasn’t scheduling multiple 300+ teams. Someone said St Louis paid more for buy games then Indiana did.


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[mdn82]

 
^^I just don't get it^^
Holtman was 8-12 in conference last year, and one game better than us overall. He has recruited well, but so have we. 
Mack was 20-14 last year (and quite good in the ACC), 1.5 games better than us. He inherited a pretty well-stocked cupboard, but he's also taking a big risk, because UL may be due for some severe punishment. 
Don't get me wrong; I truly think that Mack and Holtman are very good! I just don't see the empirical evidence that they have a markedly different style or one/two year performance than Archie.
Hoiberg? He has assembled a roster of truly the wretched refuse from transfers and junior colleges. He was not able to retain any of the (mediocre) talent he inherited. He was also run out of town in Chicago - consecutive records of 42-40, 41-41, 27-55, 5-19 (fired). He's doing a small town tour of Nebraska currently. Is that what you mean by leaving no stone un-turned? Methinks he can look under every stone in that State and he won't find many/any worth of a spot on a B1G roster.
 

This. I really liked Mack and Holtman and said I would take Holtman or Archie. Holtman’s issues prior to Butler pushed Archie over him for me. But Hoiberg I don’t understand at all. What has he done since he has been back? I am all for recruiting a whole new team, but it better have talent. Not a lot of it there at all who he picked up this spring/summer.


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[Walking Boot of Doom]

Can FK provided concrete examples of Holtman and Mack “leaving no stone unturned” and where Archie did not do so? This is all just justification of a dislike for the hire.


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[Stuhoo]

To expand on the "Hoiberg is NOT setting Nebraska up for success" theory:

I understand the older grad transfer and junior college transfer additions - those kids are placeholders until they find better talent. 

But, the freshmen and sophomores he's brought in so far? He'll be stuck with them for three/four years, and here's who he's signed:

 

1.  Akol Arop Omaha, NE F 6-6 190 Freshman, composite ranking 322
2.   Dalano Banton Toronto, Ontario, G 6-8 195 Sophomore, 3.4 ppg at Western Kentucky
3.   Kevin Cross, Little Rock, AR F 6-8 240 Freshman, composite ranking 468
4.   Samari Curtis, Xenia, OH G 6-4 190 Freshman, composite ranking 184
5.   Cam Mack, Austin, TX G 6-2 175 Sophomore, composite 26th ranked junior college player
6.   Yvan Ouedraogo, Bordeaux, France, F 6-9 260 Freshman composite unranked 
7.  Jace Piatkowski, freshman, Elkhorn, Nebraska, 6'4", 170 Freshman Walk-on, Unranked

In summary, his "no-stone unturned" approach is finding a lot of moldy moss under those stones, and six of them will be on a three or four year scholarship ride with the Huskers.

 

[Demo]

1 hour ago, Fkfootball1 said:

 

 

It’s more about his approach to the program. I just don’t think he’s aggressive enough about it.


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We’ve all got things that we question about the program. All of us. It’s the nature of fandom. But, dude, the guy chased a slew of guys for the open schollies and then fired a highly respected Asst with local ties for what appears to have been a lack of sufficient drive. There are legit things to question, but I don’t think aggression is close to one of them

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Are any of the current great coaches aggressive 

Edit: poor Aaron Henry. 

[bigrod]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

To expand on the "Hoiberg is NOT setting Nebraska up for success" theory:

I understand the older grad transfer and junior college transfer additions - those kids are placeholders until they find better talent. 

But, the freshmen and sophomores he's brought in so far? He'll be stuck with them for three/four years, and here's who he's signed:

 

1.  Akol Arop Omaha, NE F 6-6 190 Freshman, composite ranking 322
2.   Dalano Banton Toronto, Ontario, G 6-8 195 Sophomore, 3.4 ppg at Western Kentucky
3.   Kevin Cross, Little Rock, AR F 6-8 240 Freshman, composite ranking 468
4.   Samari Curtis, Xenia, OH G 6-4 190 Freshman, composite ranking 184
5.   Cam Mack, Austin, TX G 6-2 175 Sophomore, composite 26th ranked junior college player
6.   Yvan Ouedraogo, Bordeaux, France, F 6-9 260 Freshman composite unranked 
7.  Jace Piatkowski, freshman, Elkhorn, Nebraska, 6'4", 170 Freshman Walk-on, Unranked

In summary, his "no-stone unturned" approach is finding a lot of moldy moss under those stones, and six of them will be on a three or four year scholarship ride with the Huskers.

 

I'm sure there's a hidden gem in there.

Geez... Those are April and Priller rankings!

[pumpfake]

It's a bit amusing to see an armchair QB evaluate Archie's demeanor and "sense of urgency".  While still a young head coach, he's recruited at big-time basketball schools (OSU & Arizona) and then had a very successful stint at UD.  Then he comes here, taking over a team that, well, stunk the previous season.  Three of the best players on that roster bailed for the NBA, and if the stories are to be believed he was instructed to retain the 3 Crean recruits (1 who has been fair to good, 1 who has disappointed, and 1 who couldn't even get minutes as a sophomore and has since transferred).  Besides not knowing anything about his methods and tactics with recruiting, he's still brought in the last two Mr. BBs, Rob P, and J Hunter.

As I've posted before, it's time to start seeing improvement in both the record and quality of play.  But his tenure here is still young and if one listened closely to CAM last season and post-season, he said a lot of the same things we posters have said about our weaknesses and what needs to improve.  I don't know if he'll lead us to a final four, but I am pretty sure he knows what he's doing and what needs to be done (not to mention what is expected of the program under his leadership).

[Brass Cannon]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Edit: poor Aaron Henry. 

Fair point. Any great coach who aren’t terrible human beings?

[Honkyman]

IU's team should have been better than they have been under Archie. There is and has been talent, though except for Romeo not great talent. In any event, the mark of a really good coach is the ability to get your team to play beyond its talent level. That hasn't happened yet (except against Michigan State this past season) but it doesn't mean it won't happen. He really hasn't adjusted to Big Ten level play yet. But some coaches need more time to adjust. Give him time.

[JaybobHoosier]

IU's team should have been better than they have been under Archie. There is and has been talent, though except for Romeo not great talent. In any event, the mark of a really good coach is the ability to get your team to play beyond its talent level. That hasn't happened yet (except against Michigan State this past season) but it doesn't mean it won't happen. He really hasn't adjusted to Big Ten level play yet. But some coaches need more time to adjust. Give him time.

I’ve been both a critic and supporter of Archie, but it took Belien quite some time (if memory serves me correctly......never know how that goes lol) to get Michigan rolling. Last year was just a bad storm of a ton of things, including Archie, but I also feel that we will see a lot of really good things the next couple of years that will get the entire fan base around him.

He wasn’t my preferred hire, but I do believe he will get the job done and do it well.


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[Hoosier DaDa]

I prefer calm and collective.

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[mdn82]

Beilein made 3 NCAA tournaments and won a Big Ten title in his first five seasons. He had turned Michigan into a respectable program before his first Final Four run.

So you would be cool with Archie if he made the tournament the next 3 years with two of those going 21-14 and one year of 24 wins and getting two wins in the tournament? Good to know that’s what you feel respectable is heading into this. Me thinks you wouldn’t feel that is respectable for us.

 

 

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[Stuhoo]

16 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

So you would be cool with Archie if he made the tournament the next 3 years with two of those going 21-14 and one year of 24 wins and getting two wins in the tournament? Good to know that’s what you feel respectable is heading into this. Me thinks you wouldn’t feel that is respectable for us.

 

 

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I guess that given Iugradman's expectations of 21-14 twice and 24-10 once over the next three years, I am now in the camp of accusing Iugradman of settling for standards well-beneath what is expected of the IU basketball program.

For shame; I expect better than that!  ;)