(2020) PF/C - Dawson Garcia to Minnesota

[pumpfake]

13 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

Mack has UL right back as a top program. I would expect us to struggle recruiting against them moving forward.

Sadly, I agree.  But it shouldn't be true.  During the game last evening when they were crawling the AP Top 20 it was disgusting to see how clearly cheating pays off in a big way with almost no risk of substantial punishment.  God, I hate the NCAA.

[Jeff_Boy_Ardee]

All of these recruiting whiffs remind me of the final few seasons under Crean.

I’m just curious, which program do you follow that has landed every single recruit they’ve gone after?


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[pumpfake]

58 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

I'm disappointed we missed out on Garcia, but with Brunk and (hopefully) TJD on board for another two years (and maybe longer with TJD, but not holding my breath), I'm not terribly worried. We have time to replenish the bigs. What I'm hoping is that either Galloway or Leal (or both) is a pure shooter who can knock down 3s consistently and poses a real threat to the defense -- ala Blackmon, Zeisloft, Hulls, Roth. 

We haven't really had one in Archie's tenure and really need that guy we can rely on to bang it home from distance. Early on, our 3-point shooting is still very underwhelming. We appear better at FTs but the 3-point shooting is not particularly good (through four games, 104th in the country and with last night's 3-10 effort, that'll probably drop). And if we can only hit 35 percent against the likes of Troy, Princeton, Western Illinois, Portland State and North Alabama, I don't wanna know how we'll fare against the B1G. 

(FYI, so far Sean McNeil is 3 for 5 from long range in about 10 minutes a game for West Virginia, which is 3-0. He's the former juco kid many here were salivating over. Have no point with that -- just throwing it out there.)

Indeed.  We still lack reliable 3 point threats.  After the game on Saturday I had hope that Damezi might be that guy, but last night showed that he's still streaky (and doesn't pass up too many shots when he's missing).  While it's very possible we may have some players improve to become pretty good, we don't currently have the kind of shooter we need.  Heck, last night Princeton pretty much kept in the game on 3 pointers in the first half, even though it seemed like half of them they shot were absolute bricks they made enough to keep it close.

[Hoosierfan2017]

Every recruiting thread turns into a "Archie can't land the big ones" thread as soon as we find out a kid picked a different school.

We didn't get Garcia but we got the best two players in the state. 

[Hardwood83]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Every recruiting thread turns into a "Archie can't land the big ones" thread as soon as we find out a kid picked a different school. 

I think Brooks & Garcia hurt the most, not because they were "must have" guys, but because the staff seemed to prioritize them. Also it appeared IU was very realistic, if not leading, at some point for both. Finally there aren't any apparent other options to replace either of them. Brooks was too late in the process and for Garcia there doesn't seem to be any one comparable that IU is involved with. 

I've said before that I don't care who Archie recruits- as long as he wins. Unfortunately, we know that isn't how it works. For IU to be in the top-tier of the B1G and legitimately threaten NCAA run's they need high level talent and Garcia seemed like a perfect fit. The sky isn't falling, but this does sting a bit.  

 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Every recruiting thread turns into a "Archie can't land the big ones" thread as soon as we find out a kid picked a different school.
We didn't get Garcia but we got the best two players in the state. 

Just one of those years where Indiana didn’t have any big time recruits coming out. Leal will be the best of the 3 we have signed. I think Galloway will end up like a Hartman. Not a bad thing, but he isn’t going to ever be looked upon to score or have much of a load to carry. Not sure Geronimo I don’t really see star or anything out of him. Just a solid player that can play the 2 and 3. But Leal, he has the chance to be a really good player and leader of the team. The one thing I wanted to see from him was getting his release quicker and higher and it seems he did exactly that. We will have our own mini Klay Thompson I think.


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[Alford Bailey]

36 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

I think Brooks & Garcia hurt the most, not because they were "must have" guys, but because the staff seemed to prioritize them. Also it appeared IU was very realistic, if not leading, at some point for both. Finally there aren't any apparent other options to replace either of them. Brooks was too late in the process and for Garcia there doesn't seem to be any one comparable that IU is involved with. 

I've said before that I don't care who Archie recruits- as long as he wins. Unfortunately, we know that isn't how it works. For IU to be in the top-tier of the B1G and legitimately threaten NCAA run's they need high level talent and Garcia seemed like a perfect fit. The sky isn't falling, but this does sting a bit.  

 

100% my feelings as well.

[Alford Bailey]

Gradman gives his thoughts on subject, usually short and sweet and never attacks anyone personally. Obviously an IU fan. Yet a small group prefer to attack him personally. Who is the problem? Its real easy to scroll on by....

[Stuhoo]

Hey all; to keep this thread from turning into a referendum on the propriety of any particular poster, from this point in this thread going forward any off-topic posts will be hidden.

Thanks

[Old Friend]

23 hours ago, mdn82 said:

OF you haven’t seen him play if you feel that way. He can defend 3-5. He can play 3-5. That means at his 6’11” size he has proven he can play against top talent both inside and out. I am not distraught we didn’t get him, but to minimize the kid is wrong.

 

He very much would have helped and played 25+ out the gate. He is a really good player that would have been protected to not be exposed as a skinny 5. He can very well play the 3 and 4.

 

Comparing Luke Brown and Dawson Garcia is just a horrible comparison. There isn’t one, even artificially. There is a very distinct reason Archie Miller is not going after Luke Brown. It’s not he is stringing him along. He is not writing, texting, calling, watching, or even glancing at box scores to see how he is doing. Luke Brown is not a fit for what Indiana University is doing at both ends of the floor. Dawson Garcia is exactly what CAM is looking for. It’s a miss. No more or less. He has far more hits than misses, but let’s not minimize someone that would have helped us.

 

 

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I have seen him play plenty.  He's a Euro 4/5.  If what Rabjohns said is true (and it wouldn't surprise me), the physical nature of the Big Ten scared him off.  And we don't need a kid scared of being physical, regardless of what his skills are.  He's skilled, sure, but is he the difference between Indiana's program going in a good direction or not??   No.  Not close.  

I'm not at all minimizing him.  I'm just not giving him the status some are.  My reference to Brown was pointed at the "he averages ______/game, therefore we want him" comments.  Points don't mean a hell of a lot.  It wasn't at all a comparison and it wasn't me making a case for Brown. 

Garcia would have helped us.  He also would have helped Duke, Kansas, Memphis, Minnesota, and Baylor.  This, to me, is another in a long line of recruits who are given WAY too much weight one way or the other.  All's great and we're winning titles if we get him; the sky is falling if we don't.   Mike White was "Kong" and was going to come in here and dominate the Big Ten.  Ben Allen was a 6'10" Euro who could play 4 positions and would be one of the best shooters in the Big Ten.  DeAndre Thomas was supposed to be a dominant player.   Every time we miss on a kid who's serious about Indiana (and...other schools too, by the way), some use it as some ridiculous indictment of whoever the coach is.  Indiana and Marquette are not at all similar programs; so I'm not even sure I believe IU "missed."

[Old Friend]

23 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

 

I agree with what you are saying about IU already landing 'kids like Garcia'.  What people are trying to say -- but aren't -- is that we aren't landing all players in that range.  Few schools do.

In terms of Luke Brown, IU isn't alone in terms of being high majors who aren't actively recruiting him.  He's getting most of his attention from MAC level schools right now.  That said, he's just beginning his junior season and still has time to raise the level of program he could play at.  He did play a better level of competition in AAU this past year and Blackford added a couple of good small programs to their schedule this year.  He could certainly do himself some favors by showing well against Andrean this year -- a team that won the 2A title last year that Blackford picked up this year.

Again, I was making a point about a specific comment used as why we needed Garcia.  I understand completely the points pro and con about Luke Brown.  Brown would be a kid who wouldn't do ,much in the Big Ten until he was a junior, and his body would have to change before he would be able to be anything but a stand still jump shooter.  I get it.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

I have seen him play plenty.  He's a Euro 4/5.  If what Rabjohns said is true (and it wouldn't surprise me), the physical nature of the Big Ten scared him off.  And we don't need a kid scared of being physical, regardless of what his skills are.  He's skilled, sure, but is he the difference between Indiana's program going in a good direction or not??   No.  Not close.  
I'm not at all minimizing him.  I'm just not giving him the status some are.  My reference to Brown was pointed at the "he averages ______/game, therefore we want him" comments.  Points don't mean a hell of a lot.  It wasn't at all a comparison and it wasn't me making a case for Brown. 
Garcia would have helped us.  He also would have helped Duke, Kansas, Memphis, Minnesota, and Baylor.  This, to me, is another in a long line of recruits who are given WAY too much weight one way or the other.  All's great and we're winning titles if we get him; the sky is falling if we don't.   Mike White was "Kong" and was going to come in here and dominate the Big Ten.  Ben Allen was a 6'10" Euro who could play 4 positions and would be one of the best shooters in the Big Ten.  DeAndre Thomas was supposed to be a dominant player.   Every time we miss on a kid who's serious about Indiana (and...other schools too, by the way), some use it as some ridiculous indictment of whoever the coach is.  Indiana and Marquette are not at all similar programs; so I'm not even sure I believe IU "missed."

Cody Zeller wasn’t the most physical player we’ve ever had at the 5. And he’s one of the best to have ever wore an IU uniform. He was as good as you could ask from a 5 in today’s game. Garcia would have been fine. The myth that the B1G is just so much more physical than every other conference is beyond silly. Really you’re just saying refs don’t do their jobs. The Big East is still pretty physical as the teams and conferences culture carried over some. Going to Marquette isn’t going to hide him from Villanova, Butler, Xavier, Seton Hall and others every year. He would have made a massive difference playing at the 4 alongside TJD. Giving the team great length and more offensive skill. Wanting Luke Brown instead and comparing them as equals or superior/inferior based on ppg is ludicrous. Brown isn’t getting offers yet for a reason. Garcia was getting offers for a reason. He’s ranked 31st(247Sports) for a reason and Brown is unranked and has offers from only Ball State and Miami(OH) for a reason. What would be the difference between playing Bybee who is on the roster and Brown? Probably nothing as neither would see the floor.


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[Walking Boot of Doom]

Disagree on Zeller. That dude took a beating in the post and could play through.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Disagree on Zeller. That dude took a beating in the post and could play through.

Oh he took a beating that’s for sure and probably should have drawn a lot more fouls though a lot of times it seemed like refs let him get hit a lot. But he wasn’t going to dish it out. He wasn’t going to play as physical or aggressive as TJD or even what Vonleh did. But he was just incredibly smart and a lot of times used the opponents physicality and aggressiveness against them.


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[Uspshoosier]

58 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Cody Zeller wasn’t the most physical player we’ve ever had at the 5. And he’s one of the best to have ever wore an IU uniform. He was as good as you could ask from a 5 in today’s game. Garcia would have been fine. The myth that the B1G is just so much more physical than every other conference is beyond silly. Really you’re just saying refs don’t do their jobs. The Big East is still pretty physical as the teams and conferences culture carried over some. Going to Marquette isn’t going to hide him from Villanova, Butler, Xavier, Seton Hall and others every year. He would have made a massive difference playing at the 4 alongside TJD. Giving the team great length and more offensive skill. Wanting Luke Brown instead and comparing them as equals or superior/inferior based on ppg is ludicrous. Brown isn’t getting offers yet for a reason. Garcia was getting offers for a reason. He’s ranked 31st(247Sports) for a reason and Brown is unranked and has offers from only Ball State and Miami(OH) for a reason. What would be the difference between playing Bybee who is on the roster and Brown? Probably nothing as neither would see the floor.


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Whether it’s true or not other conferences are negative recruiting against the B1G for this reason and the fact the every recruit says they want to play fast.   Other conferences can pull up the data and show the recruits possessions per game averaged by each conference. Maybe it is a myth but if a recruit believes the myth does it matter if it’s a myth or not?


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Whether it’s true or not other conferences are negative recruiting against the B1G for this reason and the fact the every recruit says they want to play fast.   Other conferences can pull up the data and show the recruits possessions per game averaged by each conference. Maybe it is a myth but if a recruit believes the myth does it matter if it’s a myth or not?


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And the Big Ten needs to change that.


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[Uspshoosier]

And the Big Ten needs to change that.


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Absolutely. Crazy thing is I can watch a referee do a B1G game one night and the very next day watch that same ref work in a different conference and see him calling it a different way.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Absolutely. Crazy thing is I can watch a referee do a B1G game one night and the very next day watch that same ref work in a different conference and see him calling it a different way.


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It’s embarrassing.


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[biteoftheapple]

Each conference can set their own guidelines and points of emphasis. Just the way it is.

[HoosierAloha]

I’ve talked about this for years and it hasn’t really changed. The Big Ten also loves to talk about how it’s the most physical conference. That’s worked out so well..

**** the Big Ten


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