The Season Is Finally Over, Now Where Does This Program Go?

[Feathery]

6 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Heard the same nonsense about Crean warning signs are warnings regardless when they happen 

Crean got a 3 year pass from me. Archie will get the same. I’ve seen enough solid defense and missed wide open shots to know the system can work. 

[Brass Cannon]

13 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Crean got a 3 year pass from me. Archie will get the same. I’ve seen enough solid defense and missed wide open shots to know the system can work. 

No system works without consistent effort 

[Bailey7878]

I don’t agree with that. Our shooting woes are in large part bc 2 of the highest volume shooters, Romeo and Morgan, were 2 of the worst % shooters. Phinisee, Durham, and Green are all adequate shooters. Hunter can shoot it from deep, and I’m confident he will play. Once the game slows down for Damezi, he will be a 40% plus shooter. 

Agree to disagree but I do not agree with your assesment at all. You got teams hitting darn near 50 percent from three tonight. As far as anderson well he better have the biggest summer of his life.

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[Bailey7878]

Heard the same nonsense about Crean warning signs are warnings regardless when they happen 

Yep. Archie has next year to prove himself or things will get ugly

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[Hovadipo]

3 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

Yep. Archie has next year to prove himself or things will get ugly

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Good point for the 94th time. 

[DChoosier]

23 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

Good point for the 94th time. 

EVERY post/point/side is the 94th time :)

Archie better win

Its the fault of the Crean players

Coach K went 0-1,000 when he started

etc, etc, etc

[Magnanimous]

Need to see how this offseason plays out. 

Unrelated, and I know we keep harping on coaches needing time, and yes it’s a different sport, but Tracy Smith is 22-1 this season with ASU baseball. They were awful his first four years. 

[Southside]

After pondering the meaning..... of IU basketball the past couple days, and much discussion with IU buds....

I think having a one and done this year was actually a set back. I don't think I want another one and done until we develop a solid base of kids in the system. i'd be ok with 3 one and dones at the same time though :-)

at minimum, we need strong leadership next season. not sure who that will be. 

[southernindianahoosier2]

After pondering the meaning..... of IU basketball the past couple days, and much discussion with IU buds....
I think having a one and done this year was actually a set back. I don't think I want another one and done until we develop a solid base of kids in the system. i'd be ok with 3 one and dones at the same time though :-)
at minimum, we need strong leadership next season. not sure who that will be. 

Not that I’m disagreeing with your point. But imagine a top 10 pick one and done going to any other Big10 school and someone from that fan base saying what you just said.


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[MoyeNeeded]

1 hour ago, Feathery said:

Crean got a 3 year pass from me. Archie will get the same. I’ve seen enough solid defense and missed wide open shots to know the system can work. 

Totally agree...many many missed open looks and bunnies!

[HoosierAloha]

After next year, and I hope that is a Tournament run and a 22-8 record.....we have to stop with "these aren't Archies players" "these players don't fit his system" blah blah blah.   I think the Team is in the exact same position it was when we fired Crean, after two years. If I hired a Sales guy and his sales were the same after two years...buh bye.   Archie isn't running some special system that takes three years and 300 classroom hours to learn.  Most teams basically run all the same stuff.  Players need to learn to play with each other AND anticipate each other.  The Coaches job is to find the line up that does that the best and to find substitution patterns that don't kill the team.
 
Archie didn't inherit a program that was awful, Crean did.  I'm not a big fan of Crean's, especially his in game decisions.  BUT..I'm a huge fan of Creans ability to spot potential talent and then to develop it.  I'm not seeing any of that.  I actually thought DeRon looked much better this year than last, other than that...they were all roughly the same players.
 
This talk of "rebuild" is the biggest pile of participation trophy horse turds that I've ever seen. We just aren't getting better.   I'm not saying Archie is the problem, but, he has to be the solution.  Next year he will be Coaching for his job.  I really don't want Glass making another hiring decision (my opinion)...Archie won't survive missing the Tournament next year...take that to the bank ..... Glass insulted the BOT when he said "rebuild"...I should say I know he insulted at least one because that person told me.."Yeah..that was insulting..he thinks we are f'ing morons". (maybe the second time I've heard him swear, the first time was talking to him about the Watford shot)
 
Lot's of pressure next year....I honestly hope Archie does it and makes many of us eat crow.  Go Hoosiers!

Crean could spot talent and develop it because he used 2 more scholarships more per year than most of the rest of the Big Ten.


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[Old Friend]

Not here to do anything but point things out :

1)  Indiana played less than 5 games this season with every available player healthy.  If it wasn't Thompson, it was Davis.  If it wasn't Davis it was Green.  If it wasn't Green it was Phinisee (and I don't think he was really "back" for a few weeks).  If it wasn't Phinisee it was McRoberts.  Then it was Langford.  And Thompson again.  And Morgan for a short time

2)  Morgan - as good as he was, played out of position for 2 years.  Since we had trouble shooting for whatever reason, he got doubled a lot and couldn't be as effective.   That's just a sad truth.  Davis was not yet mobile enough (and may never be) to allow Morgan to play the 4 and have a consistent post partner.   

3)  Romeo's agenda hurt.  He was very clearly not on the same page with the others; and I will submit a terribly disappointing player, despite scoring 16.5.  (And I don't buy that he was out with a bad back for one second)

4)  Because Davis was limited, we had very little depth in the front court, and were forced to play Fitzner in spots he just wasn't used to because Moore is Godawful and Forrester just wasn't ready yet.

5)  Durham, a sophomore was our only high-minutes player who was healthy all season, and not only were we thin up front, we were equally so in the back court.   

6)  Not having Hunter hurt us.  No if's, and's or but's.  Especially so with the OTHER injuries and Anderson not being close to ready.  (I sawe that guy stand around in high school, and it worried me.  Reminded me a lot of how Jeremy Hollowell played.  In a perfect world, he and Moore would transfer, and we'd add a couple of grad transfers or incoming freshmen.  One big and a couple of shooters to replace the would-be 5 openings we'll have to add to Franklin and Jackson-Davis.

7)  Sometimes...the pieces just don't fit.  We had pieces that didn't fit, others that weren't ready to play; others who tried to do things they can't do, and it just didn't work.   I truly believe Archie learned some things this season.   It was subtle, but I saw growth in him and a couple of players, including Green, as much as he frustrated the holy hell out of me.   I'm here to tell you....Frankin will help.  Who knows what opportunity he'll get, but the last game I saw him play was against Lawrence North, who has at least 2 D1 kids, and he scored an easy 30.  He did what Romeo does and he's a better shooter.  Not THE shooter we need, but better; and he's very long and explosive.   Jackson-Davis is also going to help.  With those 2 and Hunter, I already think we gain more than we lose; and if we add other pieces, that gap widens.  Plus another year of improvement and maturity for Green, Phinisee, Durham, Davis, and Thompson?   And a 3rd year in a system with coaches who are more comfortable?   I like our chances to be better.  I also think adding multi-year players is a good thing and the new option for high school players will help Indiana.   We can get better talent than Purdue. We simply need to so simple things like value the ball and rebound.  Shooting will come...Archie HAS to prioritize that, and he knows.   Lots of reasons this season was difficult, and I don't think they're excuses.  

Edited March 29, 2019 by Old Friend

[Napleshoosier]

Crean couldn’t spot his @$$!


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[RaceToTheTop]

13 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Not here to do anything but point things out :

1)  Indiana played less than 5 games this season with every available player healthy.  If it wasn't Thompson, it was Davis.  If it wasn't Davis it was Green.  If it wasn't Green it was Phinisee (and I don't think he was really "back" for a few weeks).  If it wasn't Phinisee it was McRoberts.  Then it was Langford.  And Thompson again.  And Morgan for a short time

2)  Morgan - as good as he was, played out of position for 2 years.  Since we had trouble shooting for whatever reason, he got doubled a lot and couldn't be as effective.   That's just a sad truth.  Davis was not yet mobile enough (and may never be) to allow Morgan to play the 4 and have a consistent post partner.   

3)  Romeo's agenda hurt.  He was very clearly not on the same page with the others; and I will submit a terribly disappointing player, despite scoring 16.5.  (And I don't buy that he was out with a bad back for one second)

4)  Because Davis was limited, we had very little depth in the front court, and were forced to play Fitzner in spots he just wasn't used to because Moore is Godawful and Forrester just wasn't ready yet.

5)  Durham, a sophomore was our only high-minutes player who was healthy all season, and not only were we thin up front, we were equally so in the back court.   

6)  Not having Hunter hurt us.  No if's, and's or but's.  Especially so with the OTHER injuries and Anderson not being close to ready.  (I sawe that guy stand around in high school, and it worried me.  Reminded me a lot of how Jeremy Hollowell played.  In a perfect world, he and Moore would transfer, and we'd add a couple of grad transfers or incoming freshmen.  One big and a couple of shooters to replace the would-be 5 openings we'll have to add to Franklin and Jackson-Davis.

7)  Sometimes...the pieces just don't fit.  We had pieces that didn't fit, others that weren't ready to play; others who tried to do things they can't do, and it just didn't work.   I truly believe Archie learned some things this season.   It was subtle, but I saw growth in him and a couple of players, including Green, as much as he frustrated the holy hell out of me.   I'm here to tell you....Frankin will help.  Who knows what opportunity he'll get, but the last game I saw him play was against Lawrence North, who has at least 2 D1 kids, and he scored an easy 30.  He did what Romeo does and he's a better shooter.  Not THE shooter we need, but better; and he's very long and explosive.   Jackson-Davis is also going to help.  With those 2 and Hunter, I already think we gain more than we lose; and if we add other pieces, that gap widens.  Plus another year of improvement and maturity for Green, Phinisee, Durham, Davis, and Thompson?   And a 3rd year in a system with coaches who are more comfortable?   I like our chances to be better.  I also think adding multi-year players is a good thing and the new option for high school players will help Indiana.   We can get better talent than Purdue. We simply need to so simple things like value the ball and rebound.  Shooting will come...Archie HAS to prioritize that, and he knows.   Lots of reasons this season was difficult, and I don't think they're excuses.  

If you want to get technical, they played no games with everyone healthy since Hunter didn't play all year.

On to next year.

[RaceToTheTop]

29 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Crean could spot talent and develop it because he used 2 more scholarships more per year than most of the rest of the Big Ten.


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I understand the point you are making.....but when those 2 more scholarships are going to players like Bawa Muniru, Peter Jurkin, Jeremiah April, Tim Priller, Gelon Grant.....I'm not sure you can't really spot talent.  I think the two guys whose talent exceeded expectations were Oladipo and Anunoby.  And Anunoby really didn't get a chance to showcase anything because of how short he was here and injury.

[TXHoosierDaddy]

18 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Not here to do anything but point things out :

1)  Indiana played less than 5 games this season with every available player healthy.  If it wasn't Thompson, it was Davis.  If it wasn't Davis it was Green.  If it wasn't Green it was Phinisee (and I don't think he was really "back" for a few weeks).  If it wasn't Phinisee it was McRoberts.  Then it was Langford.  And Thompson again.  And Morgan for a short time

2)  Morgan - as good as he was, played out of position for 2 years.  Since we had trouble shooting for whatever reason, he got doubled a lot and couldn't be as effective.   That's just a sad truth.  Davis was not yet mobile enough (and may never be) to allow Morgan to play the 4 and have a consistent post partner.   

3)  Romeo's agenda hurt.  He was very clearly not on the same page with the others; and I will submit a terribly disappointing player, despite scoring 16.5.  (And I don't buy that he was out with a bad back for one second)

4)  Because Davis was limited, we had very little depth in the front court, and were forced to play Fitzner in spots he just wasn't used to because Moore is Godawful and Forrester just wasn't ready yet.

5)  Durham, a sophomore was our only high-minutes player who was healthy all season, and not only were we thin up front, we were equally so in the back court.   

6)  Not having Hunter hurt us.  No if's, and's or but's.  Especially so with the OTHER injuries and Anderson not being close to ready.  (I sawe that guy stand around in high school, and it worried me.  Reminded me a lot of how Jeremy Hollowell played.  In a perfect world, he and Moore would transfer, and we'd add a couple of grad transfers or incoming freshmen.  One big and a couple of shooters to replace the would-be 5 openings we'll have to add to Franklin and Jackson-Davis.

7)  Sometimes...the pieces just don't fit.  We had pieces that didn't fit, others that weren't ready to play; others who tried to do things they can't do, and it just didn't work.   I truly believe Archie learned some things this season.   It was subtle, but I saw growth in him and a couple of players, including Green, as much as he frustrated the holy hell out of me.   I'm here to tell you....Frankin will help.  Who knows what opportunity he'll get, but the last game I saw him play was against Lawrence North, who has at least 2 D1 kids, and he scored an easy 30.  He did what Romeo does and he's a better shooter.  Not THE shooter we need, but better; and he's very long and explosive.   Jackson-Davis is also going to help.  With those 2 and Hunter, I already think we gain more than we lose; and if we add other pieces, that gap widens.  Plus another year of improvement and maturity for Green, Phinisee, Durham, Davis, and Thompson?   And a 3rd year in a system with coaches who are more comfortable?   I like our chances to be better.  I also think adding multi-year players is a good thing and the new option for high school players will help Indiana.   We can get better talent than Purdue. We simply need to so simple things like value the ball and rebound.  Shooting will come...Archie HAS to prioritize that, and he knows.   Lots of reasons this season was difficult, and I don't think they're excuses.  

Everyone knew Davis would be limited. Achilles injuries take time to heal and its more of a two year injury to get back to 100%. The fact we didn't have another option there knowing this is on the staff for not bringing someone in...oh wait they brought in Fizner :)

[RaceToTheTop]

3 hours ago, Hovadipo said:

WALLOWING.

 

IN. 

 

MEDIOCRITTTTYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

Great band name.  Maybe even better than Dusty Banners.

[Old Friend]

2 minutes ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

Everyone knew Davis would be limited. Achilles injuries take time to heal and its more of a two year injury to get back to 100%. The fact we didn't have another option there knowing this is on the staff for not bringing someone in...oh wait they brought in Fizner :)

They also thought Thompson would be healthy and perhaps that Moore would develop into......anything.    I don't blame Archie for not having depth there.  I'm sure he thought he did.  Like I said, sometimes the pieces don't fit.

[TXHoosierDaddy]

2 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

They also thought Thompson would be healthy and perhaps that Moore would develop into......anything.    I don't blame Archie for not having depth there.  I'm sure he thought he did.  Like I said, sometimes the pieces don't fit.

The whole thing was just banking on too many unproven pieces that have never contributed at the D1 level.  Davis was never going to be 100%. Needed someone to step up there, they didn't or were injured. That was kind of the theme at a number of positions. Hopefully, Archie can sort it out and bring in some more new pieces on top of TJD and Franklin that will fit better. 

[RaceToTheTop]

3 minutes ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

Everyone knew Davis would be limited. Achilles injuries take time to heal and its more of a two year injury to get back to 100%. The fact we didn't have another option there knowing this is on the staff for not bringing someone in...oh wait they brought in Fizner :)

I think we all were fine at the time when he was brought in.  He was supposed to help fill a need.....you don't shoot 40% from three for three straight seasons by accident.  And while his shooting percentage could have been expected to fall a little bit, the drop he had surely wasn't.  By the end of the year, teams were giving him that   And he had played in two NCAA games and five NIT games coming in....that kind of experience should have been helpful.

I guess I don't get the criticism in hindsight.  I don't recall much criticism when he committed.  It was a free scholarship for one year going to a guy who was supposed to fit a role.  It didn't work out, but I don't think we were predicting what we got.