The Season Is Finally Over, Now Where Does This Program Go?

[Feathery 4,005]

11 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

My point isn’t that recruiting has stalled but that there are a lot of new questions right now regarding whether or not Archie is the guy or not. True missing on one recruit does not definitively equal stalled but it does currently add more doubt.

That was the point of my post. That while the macro measure of where we are after 2 years may suggest we are on schedule there are several micro concerns surrounding Archie and the program. I am hopeful that we start to see things that answer some of these questions or resolve the doubt but for now they are fair concerns.

For example, if we go and pick up some legitimate recruits or grad transfers (especially ones that are likely to play a big role) then that will he’ll resolve my concerns that recruiting has stalled. Brink would be a good get but probably not at the TJD or even Franklin level.


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I agree that there are questions. I guess what I keep debating people in is that it’s premature to make that decision or be concerned. Archie is going to get 4-5 years regardless of what the fans worry about. So I’m taking a wait and see approach. 

[8bucks 6,445]

I agree that there are questions. I guess what I keep debating people in is that it’s premature to make that decision or be concerned. Archie is going to get 4-5 years regardless of what the fans worry about. So I’m taking a wait and see approach. 

I agree but Archie has to progress next year and answer some of these questions. If the list of questions grows or next year is worse then I don’t think he will get to 4-5 years.

Some of the questions aren’t that hard to answer. As you mentioned with Leal, that might be another Franklin like pick up and if he gets some more commits ranked somewhere between him and where Hunter was I think that will be a healthy strategy over the long haul.


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[MoyeNeeded 3,073]

1 hour ago, Bailey7878 said:

You mean fred missed. Are you really surprised though?

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Holtmann wasn't interested in the job.

[Feathery 4,005]

21 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

I agree but Archie has to progress next year and answer some of these questions. If the list of questions grows or next year is worse then I don’t think he will get to 4-5 years.

Some of the questions aren’t that hard to answer. As you mentioned with Leal, that might be another Franklin like pick up and if he gets some more commits ranked somewhere between him and where Hunter was I think that will be a healthy strategy over the long haul.


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He will make year 4 regardless of results next year. His seat could be hot by fans but he isn’t going anywhere until after year 4 at the soonest. By then all the questions will he answered.

[Bailey7878 2,506]

He will make year 4 regardless of results next year. His seat could be hot by fans but he isn’t going anywhere until after year 4 at the soonest. By then all the questions will he answered.

Case closed.

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[jonz44 810]

2 hours ago, DChoosier said:

I’m with you on this if he projects (I have no idea) to be at least a decent backup. In another thread I mentioned hearing a Brian Snow podcast in which he said none of the last three Indiana native 5 stars (TJD, Brooks, Romeo) grew up being IU fans. Culturally/program/locker room I think the program needs some players that bleed IU.

Players don't have to grow up being IU fans to be willing to come here and put their heart and soul into helping build a winning program. They just need a burning desire to succeed. 

[DChoosier 8,440]

1 minute ago, jonz44 said:

Players don't have to grow up being IU fans to be willing to come here and put their heart and soul into helping build a winning program. They just need a burning desire to succeed. 

I’m not saying they all (or even most) have to grow up loving IU but having a couple would be nice.

[jonz44 810]

4 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

I’m not saying they all (or even most) have to grow up loving IU but having a couple would be nice.

Do you think that most recruits are sold on the school's history or the history of the coach and their relationship with him? I feel it's the latter. When I look at our teams history the last 20 years or so it seems the majority of our most passionate players have come from out of state. I think recruiting has changed and became so national now that if you're going to be elite you have to go national. 

[8bucks 6,445]

Do you think that most recruits are sold on the school's history or the history of the coach and their relationship with him? I feel it's the latter. When I look at our teams history the last 20 years or so it seems the majority of our most passionate players have come from out of state. I think recruiting has changed and became so national now that if you're going to be elite you have to go national. 

We still have a lot of fans that would have grown up passionately dreaming of playing for IU. Unfortunately, we are all in our 40s and 50s now.

I have been promoting the IU idea to my kids for nearly 30 years and outside of a couple of teams we have not had anything for kids to be passionate about.

Sad but true state of the program.


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[Joe DeLow 1,278]

I’m not saying they all (or even most) have to grow up loving IU but having a couple would be nice.

The chance you’ll find kids good enough to play at IU who are IU fans is slim to none nowadays. Will more likely be Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, MSU or even Arizona fans.


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[Uspshoosier 45,679]

The chance you’ll find kids good enough to play at IU who are IU fans is slim to none nowadays. Will more likely be Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, MSU or even Arizona fans.


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Kyle Guy did. Just bad luck he didn’t feel a bond with Crean. There will always be kids that will be IU fans living in Indiana


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[jonz44 810]

23 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

We still have a lot of fans that would have grown up passionately dreaming of playing for IU. Unfortunately, we are all in our 40s and 50s now.

I have been promoting the IU idea to my kids for nearly 30 years and outside of a couple of teams we have not had anything for kids to be passionate about.

Sad but true state of the program.


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Times change. IU can fight to remain in the past or embrace the change. Recruiting has evolved. Television, social media, and other influences have changed the landscape. I'd like to think IU could thrive solely with the kids that they could get from the state of Indiana but I don't believe that's possible. To many other programs have easy access to those kids anymore and we don't have a coach who is an icon or a program with a lot of positive recent history. When I've watched the level of basketball that's been played the last 4 days? We're a loooooong way away from that talent level. 

[DChoosier 8,440]

50 minutes ago, jonz44 said:

Do you think that most recruits are sold on the school's history or the history of the coach and their relationship with him? I feel it's the latter. When I look at our teams history the last 20 years or so it seems the majority of our most passionate players have come from out of state. I think recruiting has changed and became so national now that if you're going to be elite you have to go national. 

Your taking a bit of a leap from my comment. I said one or two guys that grew up IU fans would be nice, not that we should not look nationally/out of state or that should be the only criteria. 

[tortex28 379]

Times change. IU can fight to remain in the past or embrace the change. Recruiting has evolved. Television, social media, and other influences have changed the landscape. I'd like to think IU could thrive solely with the kids that they could get from the state of Indiana but I don't believe that's possible. To many other programs have easy access to those kids anymore and we don't have a coach who is an icon or a program with a lot of positive recent history. When I've watched the level of basketball that's been played the last 4 days? We're a loooooong way away from that talent level. 

Boy are you right.

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[tortex28 379]

So what if Archie has a bad year next year? What is Dane Fife is still an assistant at Michigan State? Could he be the guy to reunite the Indiana fan base after learning under Tom Izzo for several years? Hopefully Archie takes it up a notch again next year and is the man for the job. I think the jury is still out. This will be an interesting offseason but even more interesting will be next year. I feel that if we have a backslide next year or we become stagnant in progress then at the end of next year he will truly be on the hot seat and not only him but Fred glass as well.

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[jonz44 810]

22 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

Your taking a bit of a leap from my comment. I said one or two guys that grew up IU fans would be nice, not that we should not look nationally/out of state or that should be the only criteria. 

Sorry, didn't mean for you to think I was taking a leap lol. I was just seriously considering your comment and asking a question (as much of myself as of you). I just think things have changed. I see these other programs getting kids who play hard and with passion and they're not from those states. To compete with Duke, UNC, UK, Virginia, Gonzaga, and those type of programs we need a large talent infusion. We also need a large infusion of heart. I don't think IU has the cachet anymore to get that solely or primarily in the state of Indiana. 

[jonz44 810]

1 hour ago, Uspshoosier said:

Kyle Guy did. Just bad luck he didn’t feel a bond with Crean. There will always be kids that will be IU fans living in Indiana


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First sentence, I don't know. Second sentence, from all I've heard that's understandable and he's not the only one. Third sentence, very true but times have changed and IU hasn't exactly overwhelmed them with great memories the last 20 years or so. 

[Uspshoosier 45,679]

4 minutes ago, jonz44 said:

First sentence, I don't know. Second sentence, from all I've heard that's understandable and he's not the only one. Third sentence, very true but times have changed and IU hasn't exactly overwhelmed them with great memories the lady 20 years or so. 

 

[Magnanimous 4,602]

48 minutes ago, jonz44 said:

Times change. IU can fight to remain in the past or embrace the change. Recruiting has evolved. Television, social media, and other influences have changed the landscape. I'd like to think IU could thrive solely with the kids that they could get from the state of Indiana but I don't believe that's possible. To many other programs have easy access to those kids anymore and we don't have a coach who is an icon or a program with a lot of positive recent history. When I've watched the level of basketball that's been played the last 4 days? We're a loooooong way away from that talent level. 

It can start with taking down that 1976 best team ever banner that has its own spot in the west end bleachers and getting rid of the 5 stars on the shorts. 

[jonz44 810]

9 minutes ago, tortex28 said:

So what if Archie has a bad year next year? What is Dane Fife is still an assistant at Michigan State? Could he be the guy to reunite the Indiana fan base after learning under Tom Izzo for several years? Hopefully Archie takes it up a notch again next year and is the man for the job. I think the jury is still out. This will be an interesting offseason but even more interesting will be next year. I feel that if we have a backslide next year or we become stagnant in progress then at the end of next year he will truly be on the hot seat and not only him but Fred glass as well.

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Other than the Dane Fife part I'm in wholehearted agreement with you. I feel the next 12 months are put up or shut up time for Archie. I think he's done some positive things so far but he needs to make sure it continues in a positive direction. 

Concerning Dane, it's not that I'm negative on him it's more that I don't really know enough about him as a coach to form a strong opinion. I liked him as a player and he seemed to do a decent job at IPFW.