Three Year Rebuild?

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

8 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

One of my patients (another diehard Hoosier) calls him "Mid-Major Miller". It drives me mad. Everytime we are getting thumped by another team this year, this phrase is resonating in my brain.

Can't wait to hopefully be on the level with elite programs again. Please let it be.


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Don't be so gentle with the novacaine needle next time.

[Josh]

We have the talent to be in the tournament this year. If we're not, I'll be highly disappointed

[HoosierRobbie]

We have the talent to be in the tournament this year. If we're not, I'll be highly disappointed

You should probably prepare to be disappointed then.


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[HooHooHoo22]

We have the talent to be in the tournament this year. If we're not, I'll be highly disappointed

We do not have the talent this year to make the tournament. Like many have stated. WE LOST 3 NBA PLAYERS LAST YEAR, and we still didn’t make the tournament. New coach, new offense, new defense and we can’t make a damn 3. You sir are setting yourself up for disappointment


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[bigrod]

In all honesty, I agree with Josh - we do have enough talent to be in the tournament this year, but barely. Having said that, we have enough working against us that I won't be surprised if we don't make it. Mainly, everyone is learning a new system, our seniors haven't really played like seniors so far, and our roster is terribly unbalanced and woefully lacking in some key areas.

Actually, the fact that they are learning a new system is the only thing that gives me hope that we may sneak in. I do not in any way think this roster would be any better playing Crean's way. We simply don't have the offensive resources to outscore many teams, nor do we have enough players that can create their own offense. All those lost possessions would absolutely kill this team.

I don't know that I necessarily think it will be 3 years. If we can manage to bring in Langford next year, I think we are a tournament team. Maybe we are even without him. We have to assume the current players are going to improve and also know the system better. Hopefully we have a couple freshmen who are ready to contribute right away, and Thompson will have a year under his belt as well. I think we'll see a lot more consistency/improvement from year to year once CAM gets going.

[Magnanimous]

I think this program will be set once Archie gets his guys in and they get a year or two under their belts in his system. You can see what he's trying to run and then imagine most of the guys on the court being taller, and sprinkle in some shooters. It sucks to have to wait but Archie's tenure should be an annual rise in production, not what we saw with Crean with blips of solid basketball and then huge dropoffs. 

Assuming ISU shoots well like they did against us, Crean likely loses that game. The Duke and Louisville games are routes and we're probably looking at another out of nowhere Christmas break loss. Crean's team let up 1.53 points per possession two years ago against Duke, which is about the equivalent of a layup drill. Bottom line, Crean assembled this hollow roster of role players and no one would even be watching this season if he was still here. He never used the post, so take Davis' contributions out of the equation, and now imagine Johnson, Newkirk, Green, Jones, and the rest of our guys jacking up 25+ three pointers a night on top of 17 turnovers a game. 

Archie has done a great job so far with what he's been given, and even if it'll take a year or two, it's fun to watch Hoosier basketball again.

[Stuhoo]

9 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

A good coach doesn’t need three years to rebuild. 1) Mike White had Florida in the Elite Eight in year two. 2) Sampson had us in the top ten in year two.

Fred Glass screwed up football and basketball. He runs his programs on the cheap and has no problem settling for mediocrity. McRobbie doesn’t care either.

 

Those examples of immediate success are 1) anecdotal, and 2) completely eliminate context:

1. Mike White had a fully stocked cupboard in year one. I believe he's a very good coach and he has performed very well, but replacing high-level kids who were coached by Billy Donavan is VERY different than what Archie inherited, no?
2.  True, and Sampson (who, by all accounts is a pretty good in-game coach) did so by bringing in such luminaries as Ellis, Basset, DeAndre, etc, etc. And you cite as some badge of achievement that Sampson had us in the top ten in year two. Well, so did Crean last year! AND, just like Crean last year (though for different reasons) that Sampson team completely fell apart. And that was BEFORE the news came out that the best Sampson team was chock full of drug users and 'D' students.

 

 

[goonaha]

8 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

A good coach doesn’t need three years to rebuild. Mike White had Florida in the Elite Eight in year two. Sampson had us in the top ten in year two.

Fred Glass screwed up football and basketball. He runs his programs on the cheap and has no problem settling for mediocrity. McRobbie doesn’t care either.

Archie gets paid more than Mike White. But we all want to hear more about how much you hate Glass.

[JSHoosier]

7 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

A good coach doesn’t need three years to rebuild. Mike White had Florida in the Elite Eight in year two. Sampson had us in the top ten in year two.

Fred Glass screwed up football and basketball. He runs his programs on the cheap and has no problem settling for mediocrity. McRobbie doesn’t care either.

I tend to agree it doesn't take the right coach that long.  Miller didn't walk into the wasteland that Crean did.

McRobbie has far more things to worry about.  Glass, well anyone that wants my opinion on him just needs to read my signature.

[TXHoosierDaddy]

3 hours ago, Josh said:

We have the talent to be in the tournament this year. If we're not, I'll be highly disappointed

Have you seen our seniors play this year? I would say without a drastic turnaround from those guys, the odds are looking slim. 

[Walking Boot of Doom]

Guys, Archie was hired March 25th. Less than 9 months ago. Holy hell, go bury your head in the snow like an ostrich till you cool off.

 

1) I actually agree that on paper, this team has enough talent to make the tournament. I think in reality, most of our “leaders” have not lived up to their paper talent, and the pieces don’t mesh as well as they should. That said, there’s plenty more basketball to be played, and I expect Archie to have the guys playing their best at the end of the season. So yes, I’m saying there’s a chance!

2) New offense and defense is going to reduce the effectiveness of paper talent as they learn how to execute. This also required a great deal of erasing old lessons and habits.

 

Regardless, can we all take a season to breath? We just fired the guy who (sadly) put together the most successful stretch of IU basketball since the early 90’s. Archie wasn’t going to walk-in and win a National Championship or even win at an acceptable level with the same (but actually worse) team that lost to Josh Pastner in the first round of the NIT. Anyone who believed otherwise let their excitement over Crean’s firing get the best of them.

 

 

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[Bailey7878]

We have the talent to be in the tournament this year. If we're not, I'll be highly disappointed

What tournament the cbi? We aren't making the ncaa this year.

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[Bailey7878]

People are always delusional when a new coach is hired. I remeber people expecting crean would have us in the ncaa by year 2. Its possible we make the ncaa next year but id say the odds are against it.

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[coonhounds]

What tournament the cbi? We aren't making the ncaa this year.

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If we win Saturday we still have a chance if not then we probably wont make it. Dont give up all hope yet

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[Bailey7878]

If we win Saturday we still have a chance if not then we probably wont make it. Dont give up all hope yet

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I'm just using common sense. This team is not good enough to get in and has no shooters. Winning Saturday would be a massive upset.

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[coonhounds]

I'm just using common sense. This team is not good enough to get in and has no shooters. Winning Saturday would be a massive upset.

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I believe we have better shooters than we have shown this season. Just saying if they got it going this weekend still time to get enough quality wins to get in.

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[bigrod]

3 hours ago, Bailey7878 said:

People are always delusional when a new coach is hired. I remeber people expecting crean would have us in the ncaa by year 2. Its possible we make the ncaa next year but id say the odds are against it.

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We must have been talking in different circles, because I don't remember anyone that I know thinking Crean would have us in by the second year.

[mdn82]

We must have been talking in different circles, because I don't remember anyone that I know thinking Crean would have us in by the second year.

Agreed. There wasn’t anyone on any of the boards I was on at the time thinking it was a possibility once they knew who was on the team. Year one might as well have been shut down. Year two was first year any actual basketball players showed up and none were close to talented freshman.


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[Bailey7878]

We must have been talking in different circles, because I don't remember anyone that I know thinking Crean would have us in by the second year.

Alk kinds of guys on peegs were drinking major major crean kool aid. They thought year two which was a fiasco would be a bubble ncaa team. I believe in year three they expected big things and we won three big ten games.

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[Alford Bailey]

A tourney team next year. A staff that comes in the spring has to hold things together first year. Expect more changes to the roster. Impact grad transfer with or without Romeo.