Game thread : IU vs Iowa - 12/4

[southsidehoosier 5,027]

It's funny to me how I spend less time watching our coach this year. No incessant pacing, chugging Diet Cokes, checking 3x5 cards, and last but not least clapping. When Arch claps; which I've noticed, it's for a purpose just like his subbing and feeding the post. Man to man defense is a work in progress, but it is refreshing to witness. We need better players and can't change that this year, but we are trending way up. Off topic, where has the Mrs Arch been? Does she even go to the games?

And the incessant adjusting of the pants


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[Stromboli 6,076]

30 minutes ago, yogisballin said:

What I was afraid of


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It was Freddie's birthday.  Maybe even his 21st.  It's not terrible for these guys to be visible humans on campus.  I want them to have an enriching experience in Bloomington, in addition to playing good basketball.  I'll cut him some slack on the bars thing on his birthday.

I saw Freddie at the end of the game, too.  Juwan was chest-to-chest holding him back from something, saying something to him to calm him down.  I doubt it had anything to do with playing time, as that just wouldn't be the kind of reaction that would make sense.  You think he was going after Coach?  Nah.  I could hazard a guess, like one of the Iowa guys said something.  Freddie and Curt are pretty tight, as they are always tagging each other as they listen to music together.  Maybe it had something to do with that, like someone said something about Curt leaving the team or something.  

Notes on the game:

- Al is ready to play.  Still using his minutes to be productive.  He takes well-timed shots, makes safe plays.  And just seems like a good teammate. 

- Juwan has secured his position as my favorite player on the team right now.  The dude is a star.  Crazy how good his recruiting class was.  ....Er, oops.  I forgot we were Crean-hating.  Disregard.

- Agree with the comments about RoJo's shot.  Not jumping straight up, kinda jumping to the side with a little leg kick to look fancy, but not working.

- Newkirk seems dialed in.  He's not going to be Yogi out there.  He's going to do the things he can do.  He's the quickest guy on the team, and hits a seam to the basket fast.  I think he's doing better with Al there to take some of the pressure off him at times.

- Green.  I don't know how to feel about this guy.  Admittedly I didn't like his game last year.  It's hard to ignore him this year.  There are times when he'll single-handedly carry the team, bring us out of a funk.  He can be unpredictable enough that teams don't really know what to do with him.  I'm coming around to like him, and I think Archie's use of minutes and the bench are good for him.

- Justin and Clifton aren't ready.  Justin is closer, and he's trying to be a good teammate out there.  He needs a few more shots to fall, and a little more confidence in what to do on defense.  I think he'll get there, and will provide some insane highlights.  Clifton got a couple minutes there at the end.  There was one time when he tried to get position under the basket, and the Iowa player just stuck a hip in him and moved him out of the way for the rebound.  And then he took that 12 foot jumper, which just wasn't what Coach is looking for.  

- Collin is great.  No real comments to add.  Deron has miscues and FT misses, but he's a huge part of what we can put out on the court.

 

So Archie gets his first Big Ten win.  It's hard not to look at the team he inherited, and some of the early season ups and downs, and not compare to OSU.  Huge win for the Buckeyes over the same Michigan team that handled us easily.  They are cobbled together, and starting Musa Jallow, the same guy that Archie reportedly had no interest in.  I'm not looking into it beyond just making the comparison.  I'll be preaching patience on this for a looooong time.  To be a Blue Blood you only need 3 National Championships.  One every 25 years will do it.  I'll let Archie develop into his role just as the players can.

Good win.

[HinnyHoosier 4,987]

One good thing I have to say about this year is I don't fear an inbound play.

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I agree. And it's really good since I now fear free throws, although 6 of the 8 misses belonged to Davis as another poster pointed out.


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[goonaha 2,972]

Freddie definitely enjoys Bloomington nightlife but I've never seen him out of control or anything. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Uspshoosier 45,686]

 
So Archie gets his first Big Ten win.  It's hard not to look at the team he inherited, and some of the early season ups and downs, and not compare to OSU.  Huge win for the Buckeyes over the same Michigan team that handled us easily.  They are cobbled together, and starting Musa Jallow, the same guy that Archie reportedly had no interest in.  I'm not looking into it beyond just making the comparison.  I'll be preaching patience on this for a looooong time.  To be a Blue Blood you only need 3 National Championships.  One every 25 years will do it.  I'll let Archie develop into his role just as the players can.
Good win.

There is such a fine line between winning and losing. OSU has had their share of growing pains this year. Basketball is a crazy sport. They probably should of won the butler and Clemson game. They had a 15 point lead with 5 min to go against butler and a double digit lead in second half against Clemson. They probably should of lost the game against Michigan they were down 22 at one point. Bates-Diop is finally playing like the top 30 player is was supposed to be and I’ve always liked Tate. For them the emergence of cj jackson has been the difference. Definitely they are better then I gave them credit at the beginning of the year.


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[dbmhoosier 851]

How did Castle's Jack Nunge look for Iowa?  Is he another one of those quality Indiana kids that Crean let slip away?

[VO5 8,272]

Just now, dbmhoosier said:

How did Castle's Jack Nunge look for Iowa?  Is he another one of those quality Indiana kids that Crean let slip away?

He’s originally from Iowa.

[ElectricBoogaloo 4,307]

3 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

How did Castle's Jack Nunge look for Iowa?  Is he another one of those quality Indiana kids that Crean let slip away?

Definitely looked like a freshman at times but otherwise looked good. He got pushed around a little but he hit some shots and seemed to position himself well on offense and defense. 

[Stuhoo 80,857]

5 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

How did Castle's Jack Nunge look for Iowa?  Is he another one of those quality Indiana kids that Crean let slip away?

 

He looked like a 6'10" small forward with limited athleticism and strength who refused to play inside, but has a nice shooting stroke. 

He's a quality kid who Crean wasn't interested in, but I get the impression that Archie wouldn't have been all that interested either. Archie seems to be recruiting high motor-defensive impact bigs, and Nunge definitely ain't that.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo 4,307]

I'm glad that Bardo mentioned RoJo's rebounding effort. He was getting up there and pulling down some nice boards. I think he had 5 rebounds in the first half.

The flip side is De'Ron doesn't seem to rebound well. I don't know if it's position, hands, or what. De'Ron should be pulling down 8-10 boards a game. Instead, he's getting 5 or so a game.

[reconmkd 4,400]

28 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

There is such a fine line between winning and losing. OSU has had their share of growing pains this year. Basketball is a crazy sport. They probably should of won the butler and Clemson game. They had a 15 point lead with 5 min to go against butler and a double digit lead in second half against Clemson. They probably should of lost the game against Michigan they were down 22 at one point. Bates-Diop is finally playing like the top 30 player is was supposed to be and I’ve always liked Tate. For them the emergence of cj jackson has been the difference. Definitely they are better then I gave them credit at the beginning of the year.


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And not to mention that OSU played at home against Michigan, not at Michigan like IU just played. I think IU would have had a different story if that game was played at SSAH.

[bigrod 2,871]

35 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

There is such a fine line between winning and losing. OSU has had their share of growing pains this year. Basketball is a crazy sport. They probably should of won the butler and Clemson game. They had a 15 point lead with 5 min to go against butler and a double digit lead in second half against Clemson. They probably should of lost the game against Michigan they were down 22 at one point. Bates-Diop is finally playing like the top 30 player is was supposed to be and I’ve always liked Tate. For them the emergence of cj jackson has been the difference. Definitely they are better then I gave them credit at the beginning of the year.


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I'm with you - basketball can be unpredictable. Also, I'm not terribly concerned about other teams with new coaches having more early success than us. I don't think you can really underestimate how vastly different this team is playing this year than how they have played in the past. It's not only style of play, but culture, preparation, and most likely many other things we don't even think about. It's something that is needed, but will take time.

[Old Friend 8,389]

This season is just going to have some ups and downs as kids learn the new system and coaching staff; and as players and coaches acclimate to one another.    Saturday was ugly.  Last night was beautiful in stretches.  I think that's just how it's going to be this season. We will win 8-12 more games this season.  More if we play really well.  Less if we don't.    If we lose, none of it will be because Archie Miller can't coach.   Between he and Ed Schilling; we have a ton of talent on that bench.  What we don't have are a ton of highly talented players or consistent shooters.

Last night was VERY encouraging for me.   I saw better movement, I saw us get the ball into the middle of a zone and destroy it from there. I saw just 10 turnovers.   I saw our taking 23 FT's and Iowa taking just 9.   I saw us out-rebound Iowa.   I saw us force 18 turnovers. Sadly, I saw our senior guards shoot 4-14 with just 4 assists between them.   

We're imperfect right now, and the pieces don't fit as well as they will in coming years.  Indiana is - I think - an NIT team at best this season; and that's just who we are.   The NCAA tournament should be a stretch goal.

[BGleas 7,903]

2 hours ago, Stromboli said:

So Archie gets his first Big Ten win.  It's hard not to look at the team he inherited, and some of the early season ups and downs, and not compare to OSU.  Huge win for the Buckeyes over the same Michigan team that handled us easily.  They are cobbled together, and starting Musa Jallow, the same guy that Archie reportedly had no interest in.  I'm not looking into it beyond just making the comparison.  I'll be preaching patience on this for a looooong time.  To be a Blue Blood you only need 3 National Championships.  One every 25 years will do it.  I'll let Archie develop into his role just as the players can.

Good win.

Archie/IU and Holtman/OSU will definitely be a comparison to keep an eye on, especially since both coaches (especially Archie/OSU) were on lists people would throw out for the opposite school, but I think the comparison for the Big Ten start is as simple as Wisconsin is very beatable this year, even at home, and I would bet if IU played Michigan at home this year we'd win that game. 

The road is a beast at this level, and so much of that plays into the results. 

 

[Whoozhers 3,690]

Archie must Deshaqify DeRon’s free throw shooting.


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[HoosierAloha 30,068]

I'm glad that Bardo mentioned RoJo's rebounding effort. He was getting up there and pulling down some nice boards. I think he had 5 rebounds in the first half.
The flip side is De'Ron doesn't seem to rebound well. I don't know if it's position, hands, or what. De'Ron should be pulling down 8-10 boards a game. Instead, he's getting 5 or so a game.

De'Ron doesn't have the athleticism to go and get rebounds. That's not to say he can't rebound better. He needs to continue to block out and not let his guy get the rebound. I think part of the reason Morgan, Johnson, and Newkirk rebounded well was Davis sealing off his man. This has been the case for Haas in the past too. They rebound in their area only.


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[Lebowski 2,744]

4 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

He looked like a 6'10" small forward with limited athleticism and strength who refused to play inside, but has a nice shooting stroke. 

He's a quality kid who Crean wasn't interested in, but I get the impression that Archie wouldn't have been all that interested either. Archie seems to be recruiting high motor-defensive impact bigs, and Nunge definitely ain't that.

 

I don't think he's limited athletically, he's just young and lacks strength. He also looked kinda drained in the second.  He put up 32 and nabbed 14 on MSU's bound Aaron Henry.  And the week before that he put up 20 and nabbed 19 on Langford.  You'll probably see a big difference with a year under his belt. 

Nothing personal but I'm not buying that Crean wasn't interested.  What kind of coach doesn't want a high IQ, tough minded, above average athleticism 6'11 block of clay that can shoot from anywhere on the floor?  I would put Nunge a few notches above Hartman and Crean wanted Hartman.  From what I understand Nunge wasn't going to IU as someone already mentioned he's got Iowa roots.  Not to mention there's history. Personally I think there's more to it then just Crean wasn't interested.  Crean might have been told not to waste his time or something.  Jack has a little brother coming through and if he plays anything like his big brother we'll see if Archie is interested or not.  I have my doubts that Archie won't be interested in a chance to get someone like Nunge on his team.  I could be wrong though.

 

Great win for the Hoosiers!  Now if Davis can just make his free throws!

Edited December 5, 2017 by Lebowski

[dbmhoosier 851]

He came to HH a few years ago.  I don't think Crean ever offered.  Oh well.  At least we have Priller.

http://archive.courierpress.com/sports/high-school/harrison-freshman-robin-duncan-recounts-hoosier-hysteria-visit-to-iu-ep-722449048-327593261.html/

[mdn82 25,510]

I don't think he's limited athletically, he's just young and lacks strength. He also looked kinda drained in the second.  He put up 32 and nabbed 14 on MSU's bound Aaron Henry.  And the week before that he put up 20 and nabbed 19 on Langford.  You'll probably see a big difference with a year under his belt. 
Nothing personal but I'm not buying that Crean wasn't interested.  What kind of coach doesn't want a high IQ, tough minded, above average athleticism 6'11 block of clay that can shoot from anywhere on the floor?  I would put Nunge a few notches above Hartman and Crean wanted Hartman.  From what I understand Nunge wasn't going to IU as someone already mentioned he's got Iowa roots.  Not to mention there's history. Personally I think there's more to it then just Crean wasn't interested.  Crean might have been told not to waste his time or something.  Jack has a little brother coming through and if he plays anything like his big brother we'll see if Archie is interested or not.  I have my doubts that Archie won't be interested in a chance to get someone like Nunge on his team.  I could be wrong though.
 
Great win for the Hoosiers!  Now if Davis can just make his free throws!

He lacked athleticism for a 6’10” Small Forward. His lateral quickness is lacking but both should improve with the trainer. I am all for making the kid out to be the 2nd coming, but really the only thing you listed he possesses is a high IQ. He isn’t a bad player. Very solid. I think he is in a good spot as a 4 year starter. Here even with what we have he wouldn’t be starting or getting much run this year. Next year? Crapshoot. The fit just isn’t here.


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[Lebowski 2,744]

7 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

He lacked athleticism for a 6’10” Small Forward. His lateral quickness is lacking but both should improve with the trainer. I am all for making the kid out to be the 2nd coming, but really the only thing you listed he possesses is a high IQ. He isn’t a bad player. Very solid. I think he is in a good spot as a 4 year starter. Here even with what we have he wouldn’t be starting or getting much run this year. Next year? Crapshoot. The fit just isn’t here.


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Woah, woah, woah, pump the brakes man.  I didn't say he's the second coming.  I just said he's smart, tough and athletically above average.  And pointed out that he can hang with the blue bloods as he did last year.  Most importantly, I said he's young.  And as you just pointed out through time he'll more than likely get better.  He didn't play as a Small Forward for his high school so I betting there's a learning curve for him as well. With his intelligence it wouldn't surprise me that we'll see a significant change next year.  I could be wrong.  Personally, I wouldn't place him at the Small Forward position.  I see him more as a possible stretch, but that's stretching it too.  Maybe a forward-center?  He might need to bulk up to play that position too.  He's one of those tweeners if that makes any sense.  I don't get paid to make those calls and I'm glad I don't have to.  Regardless, the main point of my post was to point out that I don't think Crean wasn't interested him.