TOM CREAN FIRED

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

Averages are not trends either. Do you have somewhere where you presented 10 years of data?

 

Yeah, but heres the gist. 

 

At Murray state he had only 1 defense in top 100.  At Texas hes not had a single 1 out of the top 100.  With 2 of those 4 being below 50.  And another 2 still 60 and below.  Thats a trend showing real improvement. 

 

Its looks to me like he suffered on the offensive end his first 3 years to build something.  And then the offensive numbers have gone down. 

 

But even his worst year at texas would be his second best at Murray state.  Thats real improvement, thats a trend that even as he is building the program and having growing pains hes better than he had been. 

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

Sampson's only full year at IU he went 21-11 and lost in the second round.

 

Pretty damn good with somebody elses players with a team that had missed the tourney the year before.  There was real growth the second year.  

 

But you missed the point of that post I think.   

 

Wow I forget that he had made the tourney his final year. 

 

Still pretty good that Sampson matched Davis's performance his first year, after losing some important players. 

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

Or our 5 star PG hadn't been prepared and thats why the offense ran better with an Injured Jordan hulls running it. So of course after we went on a run to tie it Crean pulled Hulls and put Yogi back in.

I'm not saying Crean didn't get them prepared but 2 5'10 pg's regardless of ability will do nothing against a 2-3 zone ran great with 6'5 guards.

[Chips&Dipo 1,464]

Pretty damn good with somebody elses players with a team that had missed the tourney the year before.  There was real growth the second year.  

 

But you missed the point of that post I think.   

 

Wow I forget that he had made the tourney his final year. 

 

Still pretty good that Sampson matched Davis's performance his first year, after losing some important players. 

They went to the tourney the year before if my memory serves me right. Marco Killingsworth last year. DJ White got injured.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,312]

Lets face it, Creans lack of consistency is maddening. We all fear a swoon coming all the time. Its frustrating to always feel that way. Crean has had some really good years but the inconsistency is a killer. That's the difference between UConn/Georgetown/Ucla/IU and MSU/Kansas/Arizona.

I never feel we will win against like-talented teams on neutral court because we never do. That's a problem.

The fact we didn't capitalize on the Zeller/Oladipo years is beyond frustrating.

The record at home against ranked opponents is tantalizing.

It's ying and yang. So much of it, no one knows what to think. Including me.

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

being a iu fan in your 20's has to be a little frustrating. I'm 37 and got to see iu win a title and in the late 80's and early 90's be a national power. You guys in your 20's have to listen to us about how great it was. You are correct after our elite 8 loss to Kansas in 94 the early exits in the tournament just kept adding up and slowly but surely we are are where we are today. hopefully for the younger generation you guys will get to experience iu being at the highest level. In my opinion the younger crowd took the 2012 failure harder because that was the closest we had came in 10 years. I just saw it has a missed opoirtunity but stuff happens in the tournament. Iu lost to Cleveland st 1st round in 86, Won it all in 87, lost to Richmond in 1st Rd in 88

 

I agree we did take it harder, because that was our one season where we might do something.  2002 was such miracle run, we overachieved so it wasn't heartbreaking. 

 

I just constantly think of UK.  They got one with Tubby, and then sorta suffered and kept him around too long.  Something I feel are doing with Crean.  They hired Billy G, and he wasn't the guy.  For many reasons both on and off the court he wasn't the guy, and as soon as they realized that having learned their lesson they got rid of him. 

 

I feel like we need to learn from UK without compromising our ethics, which is something we did with Sampson. 

 

I sometimes wonder if Zellers first year had gone different, would we have Brad Stevens now.  Would we be perennial contenders?

 

Would we trade the Watshot for Brad Stevens, I think I would. 

 

I just go back to this, has Tom Crean ever won 6 games in a row against Tournament level competition regardless of home or away.  I don't think he has.  That sorta shows hes never going to do it. 

[Uspshoosier 45,623]

I agree we did take it harder, because that was our one season where we might do something. 2002 was such miracle run, we overachieved so it wasn't heartbreaking.

I just constantly think of UK. They got one with Tubby, and then sorta suffered and kept him around too long. Something I feel are doing with Crean. They hired Billy G, and he wasn't the guy. For many reasons both on and off the court he wasn't the guy, and as soon as they realized that having learned their lesson they got rid of him.

I feel like we need to learn from UK without compromising our ethics, which is something we did with Sampson.

I sometimes wonder if Zellers first year had gone different, would we have Brad Stevens now. Would we be perennial contenders?

Would we trade the Watshot for Brad Stevens, I think I would.

I just go back to this, has Tom Crean ever won 6 games in a row against Tournament level competition regardless of home or away. I don't think he has. That sorta shows hes never going to do it.

not sure about 6 in a row but winning the big 10 outright in a league where 7 of 12 teams made the tournament shows me he could do it (not saying I think he is the guy but I will give him more credit them most)

[OliviaPope40 6,514]

[HoosierTrav 7,886]

Old "friend."  I am not that old!!

LMAO....Sorry man. 

[hoosierpap 14,300]

I'd totally bet my Roku that Tom Crean doesn't get fired...any takers?

[Bowhunter 2,693]

It's still Brad Stevens or bust for me. I don't want another John Groce. So far I'd say Crean bought himself another year.. IMO road games against good competition tell you what you need to know about a team. Win on the road or on a nuetral court translates to winning in the tournament in March. If Crean can do that consistently, he will be here awhile. Crean seems to be making better decisions and growing. He has made strides, and you can't be disappointed with this year's record at this point. Crean will be successful, I'm just not sure anyone including myself will have the patience to wait for it.

[8bucks 6,434]

I'd totally bet my Roku that Tom Crean doesn't get fired...any takers?

I agree but if we finish the year like we have others it will get interesting. Especially if we play poorly in our final 3 BT games, the BTT and the NCAA like we did in the 2012-13 season.

I think we are more likely to finish with a bit of a run this like we did in 2011-12.

During the offseason we cannot have a lot of the core pieces leave either. If they all stay we should be able to build for sustained success.

[Defenserocks28 393]

The goal is to fire someone who has three Sweet Sixteens and two B1G Titles in five years for an unproven MVC coach on the off chance that they're the next Coach K? Even though the odds of that being true are incredibly, incredibly low, and the coach has done nothing to prove that the odds aren't relevant?

We are not going to agree.

He hasn't won two BIG Titles yet.  

 

I want Crean fired, but it is about timing.  If Steven, Bennett, Miller (Sean) and Donovan have straight up let us know they aren't coming, then yes, take the flyer.  In my opinion, Crean is not going to coach a team to BIG tournament championship, much less, an NCAA championship.  So for me, we have to make a change if we know we aren't getting one of those four.  Now, if they have said, hold on, "there's a chance I will come in a year or two"; then yea, keep Crean until then.  I don't think Crean looks any better in two years than he looks now to the fanbase; so we'll have no problem letting him go.   

 

Crean's "improvement" in coaching came precisely when JBJ went down with injury.  We lost a guy who didn't care about defense  (and whose attitude, again, IMO, affected the whole team's defensive attitude) and gained one or two solid defenders in the rotation, which finally forced others to be held accountable.

 

 

***Edit: Also hasn't been to three sweet sixteens in 5 years yet.  

[Alford Bailey 12,375]

He hasn't won two BIG Titles yet.  

 

I want Crean fired, but it is about timing.  If Steven, Bennett, Miller (Sean) and Donovan have straight up let us know they aren't coming, then yes, take the flyer.  In my opinion, Crean is not going to coach a team to BIG tournament championship, much less, an NCAA championship.  So for me, we have to make a change if we know we aren't getting one of those four.  Now, if they have said, hold on, "there's a chance I will come in a year or two"; then yea, keep Crean until then.  I don't think Crean looks any better in two years than he looks now to the fanbase; so we'll have no problem letting him go.   

 

Crean's "improvement" in coaching came precisely when JBJ went down with injury.  We lost a guy who didn't care about defense  (and whose attitude, again, IMO affected the whole team's defensive attitude) and gained one or two solid defenders in the rotation, which finally forced others to be held accountable.

That is a great point. JBJ injury changed everything. Do you think Crean benches a healthy JBJ for not playing D? Doubt it.

[Defenserocks28 393]

That is a great point. JBJ injury changed everything. Do you think Crean benches a healthy JBJ for not playing D? Doubt it.

Agreed.  I bet there was some type of recruiting promise along the lines of "you will always start, regardless of performance."   

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

The fact that even bad Troy is getting 20 minutes a game would suggest that JBJ would still have gotten his playing time.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

He hasn't won two BIG Titles yet.  

 

I want Crean fired, but it is about timing.  If Steven, Bennett, Miller (Sean) and Donovan have straight up let us know they aren't coming, then yes, take the flyer.  In my opinion, Crean is not going to coach a team to BIG tournament championship, much less, an NCAA championship.  So for me, we have to make a change if we know we aren't getting one of those four.  Now, if they have said, hold on, "there's a chance I will come in a year or two"; then yea, keep Crean until then.  I don't think Crean looks any better in two years than he looks now to the fanbase; so we'll have no problem letting him go.   

 

Crean's "improvement" in coaching came precisely when JBJ went down with injury.  We lost a guy who didn't care about defense  (and whose attitude, again, IMO, affected the whole team's defensive attitude) and gained one or two solid defenders in the rotation, which finally forced others to be held accountable.

 

 

***Edit: Also hasn't been to three sweet sixteens in 5 years yet.  

This was a hypothetical discussion. I know he hasn't.

[MadAboutIndiana 402]

This was a hypothetical discussion. I know he hasn't.

You're just not a real IU fan

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

The fact that even bad Troy is getting 20 minutes a game would suggest that JBJ would still have gotten his playing time.

Have you only managed to tune-in for Troy's poor performances? Playing like he did against Purdue is why Troy gets the minutes he does.

 

I'd understand if you only saw us in our worst games, it would certainly explain your attitude towards the team.

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

Have you only managed to tune-in for Troy's poor performances? Playing like he did against Purdue is why Troy gets the minutes he does.

I'd understand if you only saw us in our worst games, it would certainly explain your attitude towards the team.

So playing good in one game gives him a pass to play like crap in others all he wants?

It shouldnt but under Crean playing time is guaranteed it seems regardless of production.