TOM CREAN FIRED

[JSHoosier]

Odds are that the coaches we'd consider home run hires will always be under contract somewhere, we have to be able to entice them to come here; we cannot sit around and hope they pull a Joe Maddon and opts out because that probably won't happen.

At some point there has to be a line in the sand.  Where is it?  We have to make a move to even attempt to do better, it won't just fall into our lap, but the flip side is we could end up with worse so there risk.  We cannot let that stop us.  Tom Crean is not bigger than the program, and there seems to be an agreement that he simply isn't good enough.  Indiana basketball generated revenue before him and will after.  If you don't make a move because you're afraid of doing worse than you're really just letting him hold the program hostage.

We cannot sit around and see if he'll lose enough to force a move, he's not that bad.  He won't win high enough to justify keeping him.  He's not a good coach, but he's not completely incompetent either; he's somewhere in between, or as I've said before, he's mediocre.

[Baltimore Hoosier]

My biggest problem with Crean right now is the rotation of players... When you have a guy like Blackmon who can score at a ridiculous rate or an athlete like OG (as long as he isn't turning the ball over), you give these guys 30+ minutes per game. Rotate Davis, Bryant, and Morgan on the blocks. That's fine. Rotate Blackmon, OG, and RJ at the 2/3, and let Jones or Newkirk handle the rock. Find a lineup that works and stick to it! 

Guess how many minutes AJ Guyton (my favorite IU player) averaged per game for his career? 34. 34 minutes per game. You know why? Because Knight realized he was usually the best player on the floor. I think JBJ could be that. Blackmon and Guyton have very similar stats when you average it out to 40 minutes with the edge to JBJ. Blackmon, believe it or not, is actually less turnover prone than AJ was. So why is he averaging 28mpg so far in 2016? I really don't get it. 

[MikeRoberts]

My biggest problem with Crean right now is the rotation of players... When you have a guy like Blackmon who can score at a ridiculous rate or an athlete like OG (as long as he isn't turning the ball over), you give these guys 30+ minutes per game. Rotate Davis, Bryant, and Morgan on the blocks. That's fine. Rotate Blackmon, OG, and RJ at the 2/3, and let Jones or Newkirk handle the rock. Find a lineup that works and stick to it! 

Guess how many minutes AJ Guyton (my favorite IU player) averaged per game for his career? 34. 34 minutes per game. You know why? Because Knight realized he was usually the best player on the floor. I think JBJ could be that. Blackmon and Guyton have very similar stats when you average it out to 40 minutes with the edge to JBJ. Blackmon, believe it or not, is actually less turnover prone than AJ was. So why is he averaging 28mpg so far in 2016? I really don't get it. 

There wouldn't be enough time left for the Mc's to get on the floor then, and gotta find time for them and maybe even at the same time during crunch time

[Baltimore Hoosier]

10 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

There wouldn't be enough time left for the Mc's to get on the floor then, and gotta find time for them and maybe even at the same time during crunch time

It's seriously crazy.. Mcroberts? He's the token white guy Crean brings in to play mediocre defense at the most inopportune times. Mcsawin? Haven't seen him do anything that leads me to believe he should get any PT. Green? Eh. He's made some plays, but I think his time will come next year. He's sloppy with the ball. Ideally, I'd like to see this:

Jones, Blackmon, OG, Davis, Bryant

with Morgan, RJ, and Newkirk coming in off the bench in that order to give guys a breather. I want to see what Jones can do with more minutes. Newkirk has made some big plays but has also had some big turnovers and questionable shot selection.

[HoosierTrav]

"IU rant of the day:
# of IU players that play 30+ min. per game: 0
Duke: 4
UK: 3
Nova: 3
UCLA: 4
Good coaches play their BEST players"

[Trish]

"IU rant of the day:
# of IU players that play 30+ min. per game: 0
Duke: 4
UK: 3
Nova: 3
UCLA: 4
Good coaches play their BEST players"

It's funny we mention this, as our team always looks burned out come dance time. If they are not playing big minutes, what exactly are they doing in practice that's killing them by March?

I'm puzzled.


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[Baltimore Hoosier]

1 minute ago, Treesh said:

 

 

It's funny we mention this, as our team always looks burned out come dance time. If they are not playing big minutes, what exactly are they doing in practice that's killing them by March?

I'm puzzled.


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Good question.. Doesn't Crean pride himself on having the most well conditioned team possible? I've seen the preseason workout videos.. When you're playing in tight games or against Wisconsin at home, when you really need a win, play these guys for 30 minutes. When you have a comfortable lead over Rutgers or Penn State, bring in the subs. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

37 minutes ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

My biggest problem with Crean right now is the rotation of players... When you have a guy like Blackmon who can score at a ridiculous rate or an athlete like OG (as long as he isn't turning the ball over), you give these guys 30+ minutes per game. Rotate Davis, Bryant, and Morgan on the blocks. That's fine. Rotate Blackmon, OG, and RJ at the 2/3, and let Jones or Newkirk handle the rock. Find a lineup that works and stick to it! 

Guess how many minutes AJ Guyton (my favorite IU player) averaged per game for his career? 34. 34 minutes per game. You know why? Because Knight realized he was usually the best player on the floor. I think JBJ could be that. Blackmon and Guyton have very similar stats when you average it out to 40 minutes with the edge to JBJ. Blackmon, believe it or not, is actually less turnover prone than AJ was. So why is he averaging 28mpg so far in 2016? I really don't get it. 

100% this! We need to be playing our starters 30+ minutes a night. Kids need breathers from time to time but Crean's breathers tend to turn into 3 day weekends on the bench. If our guys aren't physically capable of playing 30+ minutes then that's on the coaching staff for not having them in shape. They're 18-22 years old and only play a few games each week. It's not the NBA where they're playing back to backs all the time. They're not going to get worn out by playing that much.. They would honestly probably prefer it. 

[recker222000]

I'll be interested to watch Holtman the rest of the season, especially come tourney time.


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I agree end this now

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He runs the kind of system that iu fans used to love.

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[BlueDevil]

Watching Crean coach is like watching someone try to fit a a square peg through a circle hole.


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[Trish]

14 minutes ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

Good question.. Doesn't Crean pride himself on having the most well conditioned team possible? I've seen the preseason workout videos.. When you're playing in tight games or against Wisconsin at home, when you really need a win, play these guys for 30 minutes. When you have a comfortable lead over Rutgers or Penn State, bring in the subs. 

Fully agree. Honestly, OG and JBJ need 30+ minutes. JBJ also needs multiple sets for him to get a clean shot off. Most of this shots come from transition and or a pull up nearly contested 3. 

 

[AZ Hoosier]

14 hours ago, recker222000 said:

But how many deflections do they get

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Deflections? You want deflections? Have I got deflections:

Luke Fischer
Remy Abell
Austin Etherington
Johnny Marlin
Max Hoetzel
Mo Creek
Ron Patterson
Malik Story

[coonhounds]

He said last year he makes them run for turning the ball over so if that is true they are probably tired from all the turnovers and running lol

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[Brass Cannon]

Just now, coonhounds said:

He said last year he makes them run for turning the ball over so if that is true they are probably tired from all the turnovers and running lol

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Maybe he should start benching them for careless turn overs like good coaches. 

[JSHoosier]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

Maybe he should start benching them for careless turn overs like good coaches. 

The Tom Crean Guide to Coaching says play faster.

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, JSHoosier said:

The Tom Crean Guide to Coaching says play faster.

And if that doesn't work just Clap. Solves everything. 

[AZ Hoosier]

9 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

If Crean unleashed something like this on our guys I think our season would turn around immediately. 

 

I'm not convinced that Crean is capable of such a speech. No doubt it would be peppered with pacing, drinking Diet Coke (what ever happened to that brown crap he drank from a water bottle), and a fair amount of "clap, clap, clap".

[AZ Hoosier]

1 hour ago, JSHoosier said:

Odds are that the coaches we'd consider home run hires will always be under contract somewhere, we have to be able to entice them to come here; we cannot sit around and hope they pull a Joe Maddon and opts out because that probably won't happen.

At some point there has to be a line in the sand.  Where is it?  We have to make a move to even attempt to do better, it won't just fall into our lap, but the flip side is we could end up with worse so there risk.  We cannot let that stop us.  Tom Crean is not bigger than the program, and there seems to be an agreement that he simply isn't good enough.  Indiana basketball generated revenue before him and will after.  If you don't make a move because you're afraid of doing worse than you're really just letting him hold the program hostage.

We cannot sit around and see if he'll lose enough to force a move, he's not that bad.  He won't win high enough to justify keeping him.  He's not a good coach, but he's not completely incompetent either; he's somewhere in between, or as I've said before, he's mediocre.

Unfortunately, I think the "line in the sand" was crossed several years ago with the drugs/drinking/partying/arrests thing happened. Crean survived that, and, sadly, may survive again. The fire/extend decision may be the only thing that makes his departure even a question. IU hoops IS mediocre, and will remain so with Clappy at the helm.

[Brass Cannon]

5 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

I'm not convinced that Crean is capable of such a speech. No doubt it would be peppered with pacing, drinking Diet Coke (what ever happened to that brown crap he drank from a water bottle), and a fair amount of "clap, clap, clap".

He didn't clap once. It's like he wasn't even trying to motivate. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

He didn't clap once. It's like he wasn't even trying to motivate. 

No talk of deflections either. Did he even want to win?