TOM CREAN FIRED

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Agree Pap.

Along these lines..... What was the deal with Calbert? Strictly relationships? Seems he would have been better served staying with us.

Kenny Johnson? Just outbid by Loiusville or more going on here?


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[hoosierpap]

Agree Pap.

Along these lines..... What was the deal with Calbert? Strictly relationships? Seems he would have been better served staying with us.

Kenny Johnson? Just outbid by Loiusville or more going on here?


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Calbert and Crean didn't get along. Kenny was money and also the Crean schedule or lack there of is tough on assistants and families. Kenny could attest to that from what I've heard but not sure that was the driving force or anything.

[JSHoosier]

39 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Well, to paraphrase a family member of a former player, "Crean is threatened by people that know more than him so he would never hire a truly competent staff"

They may all be former head coaches but they weren't successful head coaches. Crean has been a head coach for 19 years and has little to show for it in regards to his assistants becoming successful

I get that.  When I want to feel smart I hang around people dumber than me.  Now if only I could figure out how to turn that into a 3 mil a year job....

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Calbert and Crean didn't get along. Kenny was money.

Thanks. Have heard similar things. Crean seems to have a lot of friends and a lot of enemies. Definitely a polar personality.

Was hoping Chuck Martin was going to open and then close more recruiting doors. Seems to get plenty opened and not close too many.
Seems like a likeable dude, but I haven't been impressed with his recruiting results.



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[Trish]

Or a head coaching position and a raise? This is the sorta stuff that makes this thread ridiculous and I'm not picking on you, Treesh. Thats the first post I read today.

Crean isn't the guy but bring a logical discussion

That theory is possible. So is mine, just not as likely.


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[8bucks]

Holtman adding to his resume. Down goes Villanova

I think Glass should send him a congratulations note.

[Trish]

Holtman adding to his resume. Down goes Villanova

I think Glass should send him a congratulations note.

Funny what happens when you have a high IQ, fundamental team.

Too bad IU has never seen that under Crean.


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[ziggyiu]

I really like the discussion of assistant coaches. I find it very interesting. There are coaches that want to be challenged and want the best staff. 

This is extreme, but look at Urban Meyer's staffs at OSU. He recruits the best assistants, knowing they are going to be great recruiters and great with game plans. He has a tremendous coaching tree because coaches want to work with him and see their time with him as a stepping stone to a head coaching position. 

Meyer then reloads with new quality assistants. This is a trademark of a great coach. One who isn't afraid to be challenged, keep learning, and fosters careers. Other ADs want Meyer's assistants because of the respect they have for Meyer. 

Tom Crean's track record with assistant coaches is quite the opposite. To me, there's much to be inferred here and this serves as just one example of a quality coach compared to a not-so-quality coach. 

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Treesh said:

 

 

Funny what happens when you have a high IQ, fundamental team.

Too bad IU has never seen that under Crean.


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God I hope we make a run at him. A high basketball IQ with out facilities would be deadly. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I'm not sold yet, but we'd see cleaner basketball.


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[ctown2grhoosier]

Kent Sterling:
14 total turnovers tonight for Butler and Villanova. So much fun to watch teams who value possessions. #GoDawgs

[JSHoosier]

15 minutes ago, Treesh said:

 

 

Funny what happens when you have a high IQ, fundamental team.

Too bad IU has never seen that under Crean.


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Never will, they're polar opposites really.

I would so love for Indiana to be a good fundamental team, instead of whatever it is we have.

[8bucks]

I'm not sold yet, but we'd see cleaner basketball.


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No doubt he has more to add to the resume. I did like how he responded earlier in the year after blowing out a team.

Read this article.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2016/12/03/chris-holtman-not-pleased-with-no-18-butler-after-easy-win/94913710/

[Bowhunter]

2 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

The latest from Hutch - http://www.heraldbulletin.com/opinion/terry-hutchens-column-what-s-wrong-with-iu-basketball-here/article_a4916a10-d2d0-11e6-93a4-27cd70a244dd.html

I found myself chuckling as I read it because it's a perfect composite of what almost everyone on this thread has said in one way or another.  If it's so darn obvious to the world, why can't CTC see it?  Why can't his assistant coaches?  Are they nothing more than 'yes' men?  Maybe a housecleaning needs to start with the assistant coaches.  At this point, we seem to be living "The Peter Principle" with our basketball coaching staff in toto.

And for those who are scratching their heads and saying what the heck is "The Peter Principle" see:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle       One of the key points made by the author - "In time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out its duties."   Is this where we are with our coaching staff?

 

 

I think hutch read one of my message board post lol. Accept the part about Crean not being at fault.

[8bucks]

I think hutch read one of my message board post lol. Accept the part about Crean not being at fault.

Hutch thought Davis should stay and was not at fault either. May have been that way with Sampson too.

[recker222000]

Kent Sterling:
14 total turnovers tonight for Butler and Villanova. So much fun to watch teams who value possessions. #GoDawgs

But how many deflections do they get

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[southsidehoosier]

Kent Sterling:

14 total turnovers tonight for Butler and Villanova. So much fun to watch teams who value possessions. #GoDawgs

"Wimps" - Tom Crean

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[hoosierpap]

44 minutes ago, ziggyiu said:

I really like the discussion of assistant coaches. I find it very interesting. There are coaches that want to be challenged and want the best staff. 

This is extreme, but look at Urban Meyer's staffs at OSU. He recruits the best assistants, knowing they are going to be great recruiters and great with game plans. He has a tremendous coaching tree because coaches want to work with him and see their time with him as a stepping stone to a head coaching position. 

Meyer then reloads with new quality assistants. This is a trademark of a great coach. One who isn't afraid to be challenged, keep learning, and fosters careers. Other ADs want Meyer's assistants because of the respect they have for Meyer. 

Tom Crean's track record with assistant coaches is quite the opposite. To me, there's much to be inferred here and this serves as just one example of a quality coach compared to a not-so-quality coach. 

 

Different sport and far different circumstance. I see you noted it as extreme but you're still trying to make the point... I don't think you can equate OC's/DC's in football and their standing to associate/assistant coaches in basketball. It's far different. 

[HoosierAloha]

It's definitely a pattern.. But how much can you blame things like untimely turnovers, poor ball control, what seems like low IQ plays, and not understanding where defenders are on the head coach? Would starting over with a new regime solve those kind of problems? 

It seems like at Indiana, its a blame the coach when things are going bad and praise the players when things are going good mentality. I'm just as guilty as anyone of doing this, but that doesn't mean its right. I think it makes for a good conversation.. I mean where was this thread after Indiana beat Kansas or UNC? 

As others have said before me, he's in total control of the men's basketball team. He picks who is on the team, who gets playing time, when they get playing time, etc. If players continue to make boneheaded plays he is in a position to correct that. If it's a handful of players during his 8+ years at Indiana that's understandable but it seems like only a handful of players get it. Yes, find a coach who has a track record of getting the most out of his team rather than the most out of themselves to get to the next level.

Kansas and UNC were both great wins. IU under Crean is capable of beating the big dogs when they don't make IU uncomfortable and they rain 3s. That's how IU beat Kansas in Hawaii. The UNC environment was crazy. Assembly Hall, when it's electric, is worth 10 points easy. Also, as I said before the game UNC wouldn't stop IU from doing what they wanted and Roy would say as much in his post game presser.

Crean really struggles when his teams can't run and gun. He has nothing to go to when games slow down or teams play a fundamentally sound team plays to the game plan. It's easy to predict and will continue until someone breaks the cycle.

I would be willing to see what Holtman could do here. It might take a few years to get to the level many want but I think he would have a better shot. We might see a Bo Ryan like progression but a little quicker. Meaning, he won't have stars to begin with but could win as a basketball tactician until he starts to land talent. It would be interesting to know what instate high school coaches think of him.

[ziggyiu]

20 minutes ago, hoosierpap said:

Different sport and far different circumstance. I see you noted it as extreme but you're still trying to make the point... I don't think you can equate OC's/DC's in football and their standing to associate/assistant coaches in basketball. It's far different. 

I like that you noted that football is a different sport from basketball. Thanks for the clarification. 

Interesting that you noted how I noted it was an extreme but you posted anyway. 

Use a basketball coach, the idea is what matters, not whether or not you think OCs/DCs are similar to associate/assistant. Noting that is missing the forest through the trees.