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12 minutes ago, InArchWeTrust said:

Happy Friday to all the Archie haters!  #InArchWeTrust

 

I'm not sure what you could be looking for other than a fight by coming into this particular thread to post this. We just scored a whopping 50 points and went 2-19 from 3 against Rutgers, but hey I guess all is ok in Hoosier land because "all 4 IU losses are to KenPom top 30 teams." Did you miss the recent Northwestern game where we had to come back late down double digits at home to a 6-10 team? Forget that we're second to last in the conference in 3 point percentage and 11th in free throw percentage. Who needs to shoot in basketball?

 It seems that there is a contingent of IU fans that wants to stick their heads in the sand and ignore all the warning signs while chastising other fans for being "haters" and bad fans when they point these signs out. Sure, some people go way overboard, but right now there's a lot to be worried about with this year's basketball team and not much help on the way next year. 

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1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I'm not sure what you could be looking for other than a fight by coming into this particular thread to post this. We just scored a whopping 50 points and went 2-19 from 3 against Rutgers, but hey I guess all is ok in Hoosier land because "all 4 IU losses are to KenPom top 30 teams."

Did you miss the recent Northwestern game where we had to come back late down double digits at home to a 6-10 team? It seems that there is a contingent of IU fans that wants to stick their heads in the sand and ignore all the warning signs while chastising other fans for being "haters" when they point these signs out. 

Sure, some people go way overboard, but right now there's a lot to be worried about with this year's basketball team and not much help on the way next year. 

Come on man!  Lighten up!  Enjoy your Friday!  Looking forward to a great showing at Nebraska tomorrow!  GO HOOSIERS!

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2 minutes ago, InArchWeTrust said:

Come on man!  Lighten up!  Enjoy your Friday!  Looking forward to a great showing at Nebraska tomorrow!  GO HOOSIERS!

My Friday is fine, but after needing overtime to beat Nebraska at home last month I'm not at all confident in our ability to go on the road tomorrow and win. 

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1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

My Friday is fine, but after needing overtime to beat Nebraska at home last month I'm not at all confident in our ability to go on the road tomorrow and win. 

If we play anywhere close to how we played at Wisky, Rutgers or Maryland we are absolute toast! Yet to see us play halfway decent on the road this yea.r 

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"Archie did it!!"
--Joe

He is partly at fault. Our defense gave up pretty of easy buckets at the rim and easy lobs for dunks. The bigs kept doing as they usually did and kept getting burnt on it. And Archie should have made an adjustment, but he didn’t and he never does.


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6 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

My Friday is fine, but after needing overtime to beat Nebraska at home last month I'm not at all confident in our ability to go on the road tomorrow and win. 

I get it.  BUT, there's always a chance these 18-22 yr olds show up and get it figured out.  That's what I'm looking forward to.  I know I may get banned from this thread for this but Archie isn't going anywhere for at least a couple more years.  The way I see it, that's going to be a LONG 2 years being stuck in the negativity rut.  Some people like sticking there, but no thank you.  Yes, I ***** and yell at my tv during games (and my 5 yr old daughter comes out of her room asking why I'm yelling GD), but the next game I'm looking for a Hoosier victory!  

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Franklin's a freshman and I never said he would be special as a freshman.  Phinisee was absolutely special before his concussion a year ago, and really hasn't been the same since..hurt all of this season, also.   Saying they aren't up to the challenge is a little unfair on your part, and I don't like them solely because they're Indiana guys.  Give me a little more credit than that.   I like them in part because I saw Franklin score an easy 30 against Lawrence North with 3 D1 / D2 players, and I saw Phinisee outplay Langford when he was a sophomore, and also because he was the best player on the floor in a really good Logansport sectional that same year and go on to set records in that conference, which is damned good....and score 50 a couple of time along the way playing a 4A schedule and both high level Indiana all stars..

Indiana does not need "better players."  Most teams in the country don't have "better players."   Indiana needs its parts to fit.  Indiana still has some house cleaning to do.  I've also said I don't think Archie's system will ever win with young players, so whether or not there are players who are "better" at those ages is irrelevant to me.  Putting what he has in position to succeed is far more important.  Healthy, experienced players will do just fine.  I don't think anybody really knows until we're not reliant on DeVonte Green to play well for us to beat good teams.    And right now?  We are. I hate that we are, but we are.  

I respect your takes, OF. I do. But college coaches have so much control. They recruit the kids, put in their system, play who they want. When you continue to underperform it’s no one’s fault but the coach. Archie has tried to get “better” players annually. He knows he needs better players but he isn’t getting them.

 

The ‘getting old’ theory might work but it might not. Nothing so far to show it’s going to work. Our aging players are barely improving if at all. Continuing to blame one class for the teams lack of success isn’t fair.

 

I personally think Archie is grasping at things. He’s plugging away, but he doesn’t know why we are struggling. Is it the system? Is it the players? Is it the pressure of the fanbase? It’s a phenomenon. Why do you have a bunch of adequate offensive players in HS that can’t score in college. At some point it ALL falls back on the coach. Either our players aren’t as good as we think or Archie isn’t as good as he thinks or both. I fear it’s both.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, InArchWeTrust said:

I get it.  BUT, there's always a chance these 18-22 yr olds show up and get it figured out.  That's what I'm looking forward to.  I know I may get banned from this thread for this but Archie isn't going anywhere for at least a couple more years.  The way I see it, that's going to be a LONG 2 years being stuck in the negativity rut.  Some people like sticking there, but no thank you.  Yes, I ***** and yell at my tv during games (and my 5 yr old daughter comes out of her room asking why I'm yelling GD), but the next game I'm looking for a Hoosier victory!  

I think there are some people who are stuck in the negativity rut and won't be leaving no matter what happens, but I think most people in this thread, myself included, desperately just want us to figure things out and be a good team. Many even seem to want Archie to be the guy to figure things out. After the OSU game I thought hey maybe this is the turning point, but then we turned around and laid an egg against Rutgers. It's just very frustrating to watch. 

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15 minutes ago, InArchWeTrust said:

I get it.  BUT, there's always a chance these 18-22 yr olds show up and get it figured out.  That's what I'm looking forward to.  I know I may get banned from this thread for this but Archie isn't going anywhere for at least a couple more years.  The way I see it, that's going to be a LONG 2 years being stuck in the negativity rut.  Some people like sticking there, but no thank you.  Yes, I ***** and yell at my tv during games (and my 5 yr old daughter comes out of her room asking why I'm yelling GD), but the next game I'm looking for a Hoosier victory!  

The two highlighted parts will have to allign for the second part to be true. 

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25 minutes ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

If we play anywhere close to how we played at Wisky, Rutgers or Maryland we are absolute toast! Yet to see us play halfway decent on the road this yea.r 

I tried to stay away from here today but putting the Rutgers game in the same category as Maryland & Wisconsin is crazy IMO. The only thing all three had in common was we lost. Give me the Rutgers effort, add a few more made 3's and we will win tomorrow night. 

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Just now, Chris007 said:

I tried to stay away from here today but putting the Rutgers game in the same category as Maryland & Wisconsin is crazy IMO. The only thing all three had in common was we lost. Give me the Rutgers effort, add a few more made 3's and we will win tomorrow night. 

Wasn't comparing effort levels but we've shot absolutely horrible in each of those games, have we not?  We are yet to even shoot halfway decent on the road. Hard enough to win in tough road environment when shots are falling. When they aren't, forget about it. 

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I respect your takes, OF. I do. But college coaches have so much control. They recruit the kids, put in their system, play who they want. When you continue to underperform it’s no one’s fault but the coach. Archie has tried to get “better” players annually. He knows he needs better players but he isn’t getting them.
 
The ‘getting old’ theory might work but it might not. Nothing so far to show it’s going to work. Our aging players are barely improving if at all. Continuing to blame one class for the teams lack of success isn’t fair.
 
I personally think Archie is grasping at things. He’s plugging away, but he doesn’t know why we are struggling. Is it the system? Is it the players? Is it the pressure of the fanbase? It’s a phenomenon. Why do you have a bunch of adequate offensive players in HS that can’t score in college. At some point it ALL falls back on the coach. Either our players aren’t as good as we think or Archie isn’t as good as he thinks or both. I fear it’s both.
 
 
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His guys are Sophomores. It’s definitely not going to work if you get rid of him before he even has a chance to get old. I’m not saying keep him 6+ years to find out, but as of today we have solid wins and not so bad losses on paper and it seems some are acting like we’re 4-13, not 13-4


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Archie hasnt given us anything to get excited about in 2.5 years. He has had a few good wins but many times we dont look great in the wins. He has had some terrible losses much like the previous coach but Crean gave us some highs to go along with the lows. Archie is just steadily a little below average and there is zero feeling that will suddenly change. Next years class as it stands certainly doesnt move the needle.

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I think there are some people who are stuck in the negativity rut and won't be leaving no matter what happens, but I think most people in this thread, myself included, desperately just want us to figure things out and be a good team. Many even seem to want Archie to be the guy to figure things out. After the OSU game I thought hey maybe this is the turning point, but then we turned around and laid an egg against Rutgers. It's just very frustrating to watch. 

I agree. I want Archie to succeed. Maybe I am overly doubtful and not patient enough. Show me something. If the upperclassmen are not doing what you want bench them and play the others. I would support him more if I could justify a loss because we are getting a lot of PT for the young guys.

Show me some kids who are making big strides year after year. Show me that even if we lose we lose close.

If you aren’t going to deliver big time wins yet show me a fighting spirit and hope that the kids we have will obviously improve a great deal. I would trade success now for hope later but it has to be based on something


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In regards to shooting, the pct. is not even relevant right now.  Someone needs to take a look and show how many never even had a chance.  Air balls, clanks off the rim, and hitting the side of the backboard don't have a prayer.  It's not like, if only those when in the basket.  It is, in fact, bad shooting.  

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1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I respect your takes, OF. I do. But college coaches have so much control. They recruit the kids, put in their system, play who they want. When you continue to underperform it’s no one’s fault but the coach. Archie has tried to get “better” players annually. He knows he needs better players but he isn’t getting them.

 

The ‘getting old’ theory might work but it might not. Nothing so far to show it’s going to work. Our aging players are barely improving if at all. Continuing to blame one class for the teams lack of success isn’t fair.

 

I personally think Archie is grasping at things. He’s plugging away, but he doesn’t know why we are struggling. Is it the system? Is it the players? Is it the pressure of the fanbase? It’s a phenomenon. Why do you have a bunch of adequate offensive players in HS that can’t score in college. At some point it ALL falls back on the coach. Either our players aren’t as good as we think or Archie isn’t as good as he thinks or both. I fear it’s both.

 

 

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Right now, our defense is good enough to win.  Statistically way better than it was under Crean.  Offensively, we're not there.  Fans watch offense. Players WANT offense, and when it looks bad, people generally feel the team looks bad.   I completely understand that.  

I'm also not blaming one class, but the reality is Archie's system and Crean's couldn't be more different. Green in Archie's system is a horrible fit.  Green in most systems seems to be a horrible fit, but especially in Archie's and we still depend on him for myriad reasons beyond Archie's control - Hunter's injury a huge one in my opinion, along with Phinisee's injuries.  The kids Archie recruited are playing in year 2.  Durham and Smith are wild cards and I understand that. The truth is, both players' numbers are up.  They're improving offensively.  Are either of them truly talented offensive players?   No.  They're not.   They are indeed "adequate."  I don't think we know what Phinisee really is, but he was far from "adequate" in high school, as was Franklin. 

As far as getting highly ranked players?  TJD was a McDonald's All American.  So was Langford.  He left.  Hunter was Ohio's Mr. Basketball....a great recruit.  He had a horrible surgery to correct a blood flow condition in his leg and obviously isn't himself.  Langford was ranked #6 in the country.  Hunter #37.  TJD # 18 or something..don't remember, but not below 24.   Saying he's not getting those players isn't accurate.  He is. One left and one had a unicorn of a health problem.  The other might be Big Ten freshman of the year.

I'm not trying to sell you on Archie, but I AM telling you it's early to make the claim that he's no good.   The perfect storm that has Indiana where it is right nor rivals one of those "you can't make this stuff up" stories.

This whole program is a phenomenon, and I can tell you absolutely the fans don't help.  Expectations of immediate success and that players play over their heads because "INDIANA" is on their chest (look back at old threads discussing some of the awful players some said would come here and thrive immediately), etc.  

I don't disagree with you that at some point it falls back on the coach, but this is really just his second season,  he STILL hasn't had a year that wasn't plagued by significant injury, and last season (I'm not convinced THIS season) some poisonous locker room problems as well.

Am I happy about the results?  Hell no.  I'm just not as ready to jump back on the carousel as some are, and I also see the defensive improvement (more evident lately) as a positive sign most won't consider.  Just a different perspective.

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I tried to stay away from here today but putting the Rutgers game in the same category as Maryland & Wisconsin is crazy IMO. The only thing all three had in common was we lost. Give me the Rutgers effort, add a few more made 3's and we will win tomorrow night. 

I don’t get this thought people have that our effort against Rutgers was so great. It was putrid for over 3/4 of the game.


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What Rutgers, Maryland and Wisconsin had in common was poor guard play, including awful 3-point shooting. Our effort against Rutgers was better than in the Maryland game which I am regret to say I attended. There didn't seem to be any effort (except by Brunk) against Maryland whereas against Rutgers there was occasional effort.

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