Standards at Indiana

[GnarlyTimGarl 1,433]

What I always thought IU Basketball's standards to be...

 

1) Represent the university with the utmost respect and class at the highest level. We claim to be a "world class" university. With such a visible representation of the university being the basketball team, we have to be one of the most respected programs in college basketball. Don't talk about it, just DO it,

 

2) Make NCAA Tournament every year. This is the academic equivalent of simply passing a class. The BARE minimum.

 

3) Down years consist of a 6th-8th place Big Ten finish. They should not happen much more than once every 4-5 years as the program should be stable enough to reload and compete at the highest level most years. We are located in the middle of a wonderful recruiting ground (Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Illinois) that produces a couple dozen Top 100 level players every year. Recruiting should never be a problem.

 

4) Be at least a Big Ten championship contender most years. Top 4 in the conference should be expected most years. The university spends too much money on this program to expect any less.

 

5) Championships ARE attainable at IU. Especially Big Ten championships. If we go multiple years without truly contending for one, something is wrong.

 

A few more thoughts...

 

- Old Friend has been saying this for years, but apathy is setting in. It really is. There are so many "used to be" IU fans out there. And they're not just Knight loyalists. They want something to be proud of. Something they can relate to. We've had that momentarily over the last twenty years or so, but never consistently. My guess is that it will take some really BOLD moves for IU basketball to ever advance past it's current state of relevance. In the mean time, I'm afraid we're slowly drifting away into just another program.

 

Just my opinion.

[Old Friend 8,389]

I think I started out with the talking heads right?

 

But fine, you guys want to work yourselves into a lather because Tom Crean isn't controlling a player's mother's personal facebook page and you can do it without realizing how stupid you all sound, go ahead. Guess it gets us more page views anyway.

 

I'm sure you'd be just as upset if Zimmerman's mom had posted the same thing to her facebook. I know you'd all tune in to ESPN 2 because it was a big news story you couldn't get enough of.

 

Or, more likely? You wouldn't care at all.

Have been trying to stay quiet...but I can't anymore.   You really don't understand how this reflects on the program (which is supposed to be nationally elite) to donors, recruits, alumni, television networks, the university administration, and pretty much anyone who pays attention to college basketball?   I am truly without words to comprehend how anyone can just think nobody cares and this doesn't matter.  You are a crowd of one.  And you can stop trying to convince everyone else.   This matters at Indiana.  You either get that or you don't.  This kind of thing does not happen at other top programs; and after all of the other crap we've dealt with, it's one more problem, one more black eye, and one more piece of bad press.  I am simply stunned that doesn't register.

[OliviaPope40 6,553]

Truly embarrassing 

[JSHoosier 20,316]

Didn't she also make a comment about "laughing our way to the bank" last season?

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Have been trying to stay quiet...but I can't anymore.   You really don't understand how this reflects on the program (which is supposed to be nationally elite) to donors, recruits, alumni, television networks, the university administration, and pretty much anyone who pays attention to college basketball?   I am truly without words to comprehend how anyone can just think nobody cares and this doesn't matter.  You are a crowd of one.  And you can stop trying to convince everyone else.   This matters at Indiana.  You either get that or you don't.  This kind of thing does not happen at other top programs; and after all of the other crap we've dealt with, it's one more problem, one more black eye, and one more piece of bad press.  I am simply stunned that doesn't register.

Sorry I'm not as smart as you.

 

How much would you care if Montrezl Harrell's mom had ever said the same thing on her personal facebook page? Without searching, can you tell me what nationally recognized NFL player's mom recently said something similar on facebook?

 

And again, what is exactly you'd like the team to do about a member's mother posting on her personal facebook page?

 

What is it exactly you'd like her to do to "make up for it"?

[Alford Bailey 12,396]

Didn't she also make a comment about "laughing our way to the bank" last season?

Yea, but that bank is gonna be overseas.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Sorry I'm not as smart as you.

How much would you care if Montrezl Harrell's mom had ever said the same thing on her personal facebook page? Without searching, can you tell me what nationally recognized NFL player's mom recently said something similar on facebook?

And again, what is exactly you'd like the team to do about a member's mother posting on her personal facebook page?

What is it exactly you'd like her to do to "make up for it"?

Wait, you're going to tell people they're "very stupid" to make a big deal about this and then play the victim? Not good form man.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Wait, you're going to tell people they're "very stupid" to make a big deal about this and then play the victim? Not good form man.

I'm not playing the victim. He said I didn't understand. I was apologizing for not understanding.

 

Anyone know that NFL player's name without googling?

[HoosierTrav 7,898]

What I always thought IU Basketball's standards to be...

1) Represent the university with the utmost respect and class at the highest level. We claim to be a "world class" university. With such a visible representation of the university being the basketball team, we have to be one of the most respected programs in college basketball. Don't talk about it, just DO it,

2) Make NCAA Tournament every year. This is the academic equivalent of simply passing a class. The BARE minimum.

3) Down years consist of a 6th-8th place Big Ten finish. They should not happen much more than once every 4-5 years as the program should be stable enough to reload and compete at the highest level most years. We are located in the middle of a wonderful recruiting ground (Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Illinois) that produces a couple dozen Top 100 level players every year. Recruiting should never be a problem.

4) Be at least a Big Ten championship contender most years. Top 4 in the conference should be expected most years. The university spends too much money on this program to expect any less.

5) Championships ARE attainable at IU. Especially Big Ten championships. If we go multiple years without truly contending for one, something is wrong.

A few more thoughts...

- Old Friend has been saying this for years, but apathy is setting in. It really is. There are so many "used to be" IU fans out there. And they're not just Knight loyalists. They want something to be proud of. Something they can relate to. We've had that momentarily over the last twenty years or so, but never consistently. My guess is that it will take some really BOLD moves for IU basketball to ever advance past it's current state of relevance. In the mean time, I'm afraid we're slowly drifting away into just another program.

Just my opinion.

Bullseye!

[Geometry Hoosier 1,151]

ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1448487130.416714.jpg

30 seconds ago on ESPN2.

I was going to post something but decided I probably shouldn't.

[Dalton26 16,892]

What did troys mom tweet?

[Geometry Hoosier 1,151]

What did troys mom tweet?

Click on the link I quoted

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

What did troys mom tweet?

Nothing. She posted something on Facebook which a friend of hers screencapped and sent to DD.

[Feathery 4,005]

I'm sure this will be used by every coach who negatively recruits against us. Just another mark against the program, this time it's from within. Remember, Crean recruits families so she is part of the program. It's not good and shouldn't have happened in a public manner.

What you post on Facebook and other social media is important. I know my employer checks social media before making a hire and have bypassed candidates bc of it. So to simply say what people post on social media isn't important and doesn't matter is misguided.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

I'm sure this will be used by every coach who negatively recruits against us. Just another mark against the program, this time it's from within. Remember, Crean recruits families so she is part of the program. It's not good and shouldn't have happened in a public manner.

What you post on Facebook and other social media is important. I know my employer checks social media before making a hire and have bypassed candidates bc of it. So to simply say what people post on social media isn't important and doesn't matter is misguided.

Does your employer check the Facebook of candidate's mothers?

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,508]

Does your employer check the Facebook of candidate's mothers?

i check my prospective employees Facebook page and it is usually a better indicator of class and personality than a fake interview. If I knew their mothers page I might check that too. Class is a learned trait, normally from parents.

[jmviscardi 2]

The "fire Crean" threads and posts have been around a while, so I thought I'd start a new thread to discuss a broader topic : the standards and expectations at Indiana.

1) Yesterday, Troy Williams' mother tweeted this : https://twitter.com/westonlawless/status/669235834659434496. Please pardon the profanity. (If anyone knows how to blacken the f bomb, please do...I couldn't figure that out as it's not a PDF)

That is not okay. It is not who Indiana is, and not what Indiana stands for. That screams entitlement, it screams selfishness, and it screams of a family who has absolutely no idea where they are or how to accept a challenge by a coach. Troy Williams is a marvelously talented player; but this kind of parental um.....involvement cannot be tolerated at this level, and Indiana doesn't need this kind of distraction or divisive behavior by anyone involved. I know she apologized, but that changes nothing. Either we're a team or we're a bunch of families and kids with agendas. If we're the latter, we will never, ever win anything at Indiana. That's not our DNA and not our culture. I am disgusted with this woman, and she needs to do a heck of a lot more than apologize. I blame the woman, and I blame Crean for allowing the culture at Indiana to become what it obviously has (more in a moment)

2) Tom Crean has been the coach at Indiana for 7 Big Ten seasons. Even if you take away the first 2 seasons, which I think is completely reasonable and he deserves a pass there...he STILL has a losing conference record of 44-46. That stunned me when I looked it up. Indiana has finished higher than 5th exactly once under Crean. That's bad. And it doesn't matter how it's spun.

This also is not okay. At least I don't think so. Big Ten championships have been the standard for IU since I remember beginning to watch them back in the mid 1970's. I do not understand why the administration and subsequently the coaches and players have allowed things to deteriorate to this level. A losing conference record over 5 seasons (discounting the first 2) is enough to get a coach fired at Illinois. Why is it not enough to at least cause significant alarms at Indiana? Where do we want to be as a program? Do we want to win....or....not?

3) Crean himself has said "our internal leadership has been less than poor." Okay...he's right. But what about external leadership? What about building and mentoring leaders? What about recruiting leaders? Seems to me Crean focuses on talented players who have been coddled their entire lives (see : Williams, Ferrell, etc) and doesn't place much effort or focus on recruiting kids who get it. Who understand from day 1 where they are and what's expected at Indiana. Or, maybe HE doesn't understand.

Indiana had triple the recruiting budget of any other Big Ten team over the last year. And 10x higher than Wisconsin. For what? For who? Juwon Morgan? OG Anunoby? Tim Priller? Was Thomas Bryant worth almost $700,000 when everyone else spends about $200,000 or less? With Emmitt Holt, Devin Davis, Thomas Bryant, Jeremy Hollowell, Hanner Parea, Yogi Ferrell, Stanford Robinson, and Troy Williams all being in trouble with the law within the last 20 months, this program has lost its foundation. It's a mess. That's reality.

We are a very talented team this season. What is the status of our program? Where do we want to go? Who do we want to be? Is Indiana still willing to be elite, or has our administration simply settled for mediocrity and gone the route of : "Are we now just another school?" Have the trustees and Michael McRobbie (who should be nowhere near sports) simply decided they don't care about excellence on the athletic field? Do they simply not understand that our men's basketball program is largely the world's window into our University? Or is it the fault of coaches? Mike Davis clearly didn't understand where he was, and changed recruiting focus to the south, fracturing many local relationships in the process. Crean has focused on the east coast. To what end?

What can we do about it? The state of our nation is not positive. We'll win games, but I think we all know we won't win titles. Not when we have one of our better players whose mother does what she did yesterday. Those things are poison. They're cancerous. We have no leadership; we turn the ball over at an alarming rate, 40+% of our shots come from the 3 point line, we can't guard, and we don't make free throws. That simply does not say "long term success" to me, nor do the numbers, history, or recruiting patterns.

I just wonder how alone I am in my concern. Maybe I'm a lone wolf...and I'm okay with that. Maybe I have lots of allies. And I'm okay with that, too. But regardless of what happens this season, I am concerned with the overall state direction of the men's basketball program. I don't mean to be negative....but rather paint an accurate picture of where things have been and where I think they are based on data and history.

Fire away.

[jmviscardi 2]

Folks, Crean doesn't shoot. He doesn't pass. He doesn't dribble and he doesn't play defense. He doesn't execute on the floor....his players do (or don't). Williams, Blackmon and Ferrell especially are selfish, lazy and far from leaders. Remember Bracey Wright? He wears #11 this year. I love to see people criticizing Crean...you'd wet yourselves if you were in his position. At some point the players have to be accountable.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Folks, Crean doesn't shoot. He doesn't pass. He doesn't dribble and he doesn't play defense. He doesn't execute on the floor....his players do (or don't). Williams, Blackmon and Ferrell especially are selfish, lazy and far from leaders. Remember Bracey Wright? He wears #11 this year. I love to see people criticizing Crean...you'd wet yourselves if you were in his position. At some point the players have to be accountable.

 

1)  He recruited those players to play for him

 

2)  He continues to clap them on as they throw a pass into the 10th row.  He encourages them to take a contested jumper.  He urges them on as they play at a speed they're not able.  He benches players after they get hot while keeping players in that consistently get beat on defense.

 

3)  He might understand the game of basketball but is not elite in teaching it or holding his players accountable.

 

4)  When you see this kind of ball year after year who do you blame?

[colonel06 1,917]

No but it's every year a major blowup MopMan that just help layer on another hi vis distraction.