College Bball Thread

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

16 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

Your fallacy is considering Purdue “arguably the best team in the nation.”

That’s not Boiler hate talking, either. Purdue was going to end up losing at some point in the tournament because of the three positions I mentioned earlier -  Morton, Loyer, and Smith. The total lack of athleticism and ability to cover would require another great athlete to go along with Edey down low - and they just don’t have it.

FDU out-quicked them, but it was only a matter of time before somebody would be able to match up enough with Edey down low to be able to exploit the rest of the team.

 

 

The best team doesn't always win in March. Kind of the beauty of March Madness.

[hoosierbgh]

27 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

The best team doesn't always win in March. Kind of the beauty of March Madness.

It's certainly true that the best team doesn't always win in March but what in the world does that have to do with Purdue?

[Stuhoo]

54 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

The best team doesn't always win in March. Kind of the beauty of March Madness.

1) The “best team” had a really good early season run, played each and every one of the four B1G bottom dwellers twice, faded down the stretch of the B1G regular season when the competition was tougher (didn’t fall apart, but wasn’t nearly as good), had no rotation players miss time due to injuries, and lost to a 16 seed in the tournament.

2) While Braden Smith is short…REALLY SHORT ;) he was also better than Loyer in every statistical category without exception and was probably that team’s second best player. Maybe Gillis was third best.

[Tasmanian Devil]

53 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

The best team doesn't always win in March. Kind of the beauty of March Madness.

I agree. 1975 Indiana, 1991 UNLV and 2015 Kentucky are great examples of that.

Purdue - under the right circumstances - could have won a title last year. But, again, that roster makeup relies on certain matchups for success. And the deeper they would go in the tournament, the greater chance of have Smith, Loyer and Morton being a matchup liability would have grown substantially. And Purdue never had consistent 3-pt shooting to help overcome the lack of athleticism (32.2% as a team; Smith best at 37%).

Purdue was good - and, if EVERYTHING was clicking, they could be really good. But in their roster makeup and skill level there was just too much to overcome to win a championship.

Possible? Maybe.

Likely? No.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

14 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

I agree. 1975 Indiana, 1991 UNLV and 2015 Kentucky are great examples of that.

Purdue - under the right circumstances - could have won a title last year. But, again, that roster makeup relies on certain matchups for success. And the deeper they would go in the tournament, the greater chance of have Smith, Loyer and Morton being a matchup liability would have grown substantially. And Purdue never had consistent 3-pt shooting to help overcome the lack of athleticism (32.2% as a team; Smith best at 37%).

Purdue was good - and, if EVERYTHING was clicking, they could be really good. But in their roster makeup and skill level there was just too much to overcome to win a championship.

Possible? Maybe.

Likely? No.

You can add the 2002 Duke team to that as well. 2013 Indiana(I don't care what anyone has to say, they were the best team that year).

But Purdue was without a doubt one of the the best teams in the nation and arguably the best. And a lot of that had to do with Edey but Loyer was 2nd best.

[TheWatShot]

2 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

But Purdue was without a doubt one of the the best teams in the nation and arguably the best. And a lot of that had to do with Edey but Loyer was 2nd best.

Any argument they had for being the best went out the window after we beat them twice and led the entire second half of both games. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

1 minute ago, TheWatShot said:

Any argument they had for being the best went out the window after we beat them twice and led the entire second half of both games. 

Crazy things happen in college basketball. I think we were a good matchup for them compared to some other really good teams. But we didn't have a better season than them, though we really ended up basically where we were projected oddly enough.

[Scotty R]

56 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

I agree. 1975 Indiana, 1991 UNLV and 2015 Kentucky are great examples of that.

Purdue - under the right circumstances - could have won a title last year. But, again, that roster makeup relies on certain matchups for success. And the deeper they would go in the tournament, the greater chance of have Smith, Loyer and Morton being a matchup liability would have grown substantially. And Purdue never had consistent 3-pt shooting to help overcome the lack of athleticism (32.2% as a team; Smith best at 37%).

Purdue was good - and, if EVERYTHING was clicking, they could be really good. But in their roster makeup and skill level there was just too much to overcome to win a championship.

Possible? Maybe.

Likely? No.

1984 UNC team

[OliviaPope40]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

IU's starting shooting guard is Trey Galloway. I betcha he's not in that top 100.

Compared to FLoyer, Trey Galloway:

• Has a better handle
• Shoots from outside far better
• Shoots 2pt fgs far better
• Has a better assist/turnover ratio
• Is 1,000,000% tougher
• Defends 1,000,000% better
• AND, (most importantly) has way better hair.

And even if Loyer improves, Trey Galloway is very likely to again be better than Loyer this coming year in every one of those aspects.

[Stuhoo]

23 minutes ago, OliviaPope40 said:

Giving his hair it’s proper due won you over, eh?

:)

[lillurk]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

IU's starting shooting guard is Trey Galloway. I betcha he's not in that top 100.

Compared to FLoyer, Trey Galloway:

• Has a better handle
• Shoots from outside far better
• Shoots 2pt fgs far better
• Has a better assist/turnover ratio
• Is 1,000,000% tougher
• Defends 1,000,000% better
• AND, (most importantly) has way better hair.

And even if Loyer improves, Trey Galloway is very likely to again be better than Loyer this coming year in every one of those aspects.

Yeah lots of previews suggest Loyer’s likely to improve but I don’t know how much? I think the endgame is he’s a more reliable shooter from 3 than he was last year but doesn’t offer lots of shot creation, ball-handling, defense.

Smith has Drew Neitzel upside, Loyer’s best case is like…Nick Zeisloft? Who was awesome, but probably not a top 100 player in CBB.

Anyway, between Loyer and Galloway, the guy I’d pick is already on the team I root for.

[Tasmanian Devil]

2 hours ago, Scotty R said:

1984 UNC team

The team that beat them was better. 

[str8baller]

11 hours ago, lillurk said:

Yeah lots of previews suggest Loyer’s likely to improve but I don’t know how much? I think the endgame is he’s a more reliable shooter from 3 than he was last year but doesn’t offer lots of shot creation, ball-handling, defense.

Smith has Drew Neitzel upside, Loyer’s best case is like…Nick Zeisloft? Who was awesome, but probably not a top 100 player in CBB.

Anyway, between Loyer and Galloway, the guy I’d pick is already on the team I root for.

That’s probably selling Loyer short. I’d say his upside is probably more like a bigger Jordy Hulls. Deadly knock-down shooter, especially with defenses collapsing on Edey this year, serviceable secondary ballhandler, and a below average defender.  
 

I have no idea if that gets him top 100. I would guess not. 

[Stuhoo]

25 minutes ago, str8baller said:

That’s probably selling Loyer short. I’d say his upside is probably more like a bigger Jordy Hulls. Deadly knock-down shooter, especially with defenses collapsing on Edey this year, serviceable secondary ballhandler, and a below average defender.  
 

I have no idea if that gets him top 100. I would guess not. 

Except the empirical evidence shows a very different story;

• Jordy Hulls shot 42% fg and 40% 3pt his freshman year, and that was without Cody Zeller freeing up the perimeter. Also without Watford or Oladipo as a three point threat.
• Jordy Hulls shot  48% fg and 41% 3pt his sophomore year, still with Tom Pritchard as the starting post and Oladipo still not making threes.
• Jordy Hulls shot 48% fg and 46% 3pt once he had a big that drew double teams.

Whereas,

• Fletcher Loyer shot 36.7% fg and 32.6% 3 pt. That is in no way a deadly knockdown shooter by any stretch, and that's far worse than Jordy Hulls ever dreamed (nightmare-d?).

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

35 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Except the empirical evidence shows a very different story;

• Jordy Hulls shot 42% fg and 40% 3pt his freshman year, and that was without Cody Zeller freeing up the perimeter. Also without Watford or Oladipo as a three point threat.
• Jordy Hulls shot  48% fg and 41% 3pt his sophomore year, still with Tom Pritchard as the starting post and Oladipo still not making threes.
• Jordy Hulls shot 48% fg and 46% 3pt once he had a big that drew double teams.

Whereas,

• Fletcher Loyer shot 36.7% fg and 32.6% 3 pt. That is in no way a deadly knockdown shooter by any stretch, and that's far worse than Jordy Hulls ever dreamed (nightmare-d?).

You know who else shot low 30s from 3 their freshman year? Luke Kennard. Doesnt mean Loyer is going t obecome that, but he can absolutely improve.

[Stuhoo]

24 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

You know who else shot low 30s from 3 their freshman year? Luke Kennard. Doesnt mean Loyer is going t obecome that, but he can absolutely improve.

Loyer is surely going to improve because 36.7% fg is absolutely horrible.

You heard of the "Mendoza Line" in baseball? Fletcher Loyer was below the "Phinisee Line" shooting the basketball last year.

Just checking -- you also thought that Rob Phinisee could have been the next Luke Kennard? Because Phin shot better than Loyer at this point.

He has nowhere to go but up.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Loyer is surely going to improve because 36.7% fg is absolutely horrible.

You heard of the "Mendoza Line" in baseball? Fletcher Loyer was below the "Phinisee Line" shooting the basketball last year.

Just checking -- you also thought that Rob Phinisee could have been the next Luke Kennard? Because Phin shot better than Loyer at this point.

He has nowhere to go but up.

Loyer actually shot better as a freshman than Phin. And we all felt he was going to be good. And he probably would have been if it weren't for all the injuries.

Loyer: 36.7% FG, 41.4% 2pt, 32.6% 3pt

Phin: 36.1% FG, 39.5% 2pt, 31% 3pt

 

As for your Galloway comparison... Galloway is definitely a better defender. But, Galloway and Loyer each had basically a 2:1 Assist to TO ratio. Galloway average 2.1 assist and 0.8 TO and Loyer averaged 2.4 assists and 1.2 TO.

At some point, gotta take them crimson and cream glasses off.

As for Galloway, he joins everyone else on the team in the fact he has a lot to prove this season. Every player on this team has a lot to prove this season and hopefully that puts a chip on their shoulders. Maybe they are reading this Top 100 for motivation.

[Stuhoo]

2 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Loyer actually shot better as a freshman than Phin. And we all felt he was going to be good. And he probably would have been if it weren't for all the injuries.

Loyer: 36.7% FG, 41.4% 2pt, 32.6% 3pt

Phin: 36.1% FG, 39.5% 2pt, 31% 3pt

 

As for your Galloway comparison... Galloway is definitely a better defender. But, Galloway and Loyer each had basically a 2:1 Assist to TO ratio. Galloway average 2.1 assist and 0.8 TO and Loyer averaged 2.4 assists and 1.2 TO.

At some point, gotta take them crimson and cream glasses off.

As for Galloway, he joins everyone else on the team in the fact he has a lot to prove this season. Every player on this team has a lot to prove this season and hopefully that puts a chip on their shoulders. Maybe they are reading this Top 100 for motivation.

Lol... I said that Gallo had a better assist to TO ratio. That is flat out true. Gallo's was 2.6 assists to 1 turnover and Loyer was exactly 2 to 1. So Gallo was about 28% better!

Now, true; Loyer was BARELY above what Phinisee shot as a freshman - six -tenths of a percent better. and below the Phinisee/Mendoza line for Phinisee's career shooting percentage numbers. In other words, he was a flat-out terrible shooter last year. I can't believe you're defending the shooting prowess of a bad defense shooting guard who was 36.7% from the floor!

Hey - maybe he improves a ton - he's bound to improve some because if he doesn't Painter isn't keeping him on the floor for defense.

 

[Maedhros]

43 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Loyer actually shot better as a freshman than Phin. And we all felt he was going to be good. And he probably would have been if it weren't for all the injuries.

Loyer: 36.7% FG, 41.4% 2pt, 32.6% 3pt

Phin: 36.1% FG, 39.5% 2pt, 31% 3pt

We thought Phinisee was going to be good because of what he did before a concussion derailed his season, and ultimately his career. In those first twelve games, Rob shot over 44% from both 2 and 3. After the concussion, through the rest of that year, those numbers dropped to 32% and 24% respectively. That's how you end up will the full season stats you quoted.

Fletcher Loyer was healthy all year, and played with the gravitiational force of the NPOY.

[Tasmanian Devil]

4 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Except the empirical evidence shows a very different story;

• Jordy Hulls shot 42% fg and 40% 3pt his freshman year, and that was without Cody Zeller freeing up the perimeter. Also without Watford or Oladipo as a three point threat.
• Jordy Hulls shot  48% fg and 41% 3pt his sophomore year, still with Tom Pritchard as the starting post and Oladipo still not making threes.
• Jordy Hulls shot 48% fg and 46% 3pt once he had a big that drew double teams.

Whereas,

• Fletcher Loyer shot 36.7% fg and 32.6% 3 pt. That is in no way a deadly knockdown shooter by any stretch, and that's far worse than Jordy Hulls ever dreamed (nightmare-d?).

Painter has a good system that enables him to hide deficiencies. But overall Loyer will need to improve substantially to get to Jordy level.