College Bball Thread

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

54 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Lol... I said that Gallo had a better assist to TO ratio. That is flat out true. Gallo's was 2.6 assists to 1 turnover and Loyer was exactly 2 to 1. So Gallo was about 28% better!

Now, true; Loyer was BARELY above what Phinisee shot as a freshman - six -tenths of a percent better. and below the Phinisee/Mendoza line for Phinisee's career shooting percentage numbers. In other words, he was a flat-out terrible shooter last year. I can't believe you're defending the shooting prowess of a bad defense shooting guard who was 36.7% from the floor!

Hey - maybe he improves a ton - he's bound to improve some because if he doesn't Painter isn't keeping him on the floor for defense.

 

You missed your stats somewhere. Galloway only averaged 2.1 assists this past season and 0.8 turnovers. Loyer averaged 2.4 assists this past season and 1.2 turnovers. Galloway did about double him up on rebounds through 3 to 1.7.

[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

You missed your stats somewhere. Galloway only averaged 2.1 assists this past season and 0.8 turnovers. Loyer averaged 2.4 assists this past season and 1.2 turnovers. Galloway did about double him up on rebounds through 3 to 1.7.

I’m no MIT scholar, but 2.1 to 0.8 is over 2 1/2 to 1. In fact it’s a little over 2.6/1.

And Loyer was exactly 2/1

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

11 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I’m no MIT scholar, but 2.1 to 0.8 is over 2 1/2 to 1. In fact it’s a little over 2.6/1.

And Loyer was exactly 2/1

Theirs are basically the exact same. Trey averaged 1.3 more assist than turnovers. Loyer averaged 1.2. Loyer actually has a higher assist% and lower turnover% than Galloway as well.

[RaceToTheTop]

6 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Theirs are basically the exact same. Trey averaged 1.3 more assist than turnovers. Loyer averaged 1.2. Loyer actually has a higher assist% and lower turnover% than Galloway as well.

Galloway:  1 assist every 13.2 minutes, 1 turnover every 34.6 minutes.

Loyer:  1 assist every 12 minutes, 1 turnover every 24.1 minutes.

So Loyer had more assists/minute.  Not sure where you are getting that Loyer had a 'lower turnover %'.

 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

38 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Galloway:  1 assist every 13.2 minutes, 1 turnover every 34.6 minutes.

Loyer:  1 assist every 12 minutes, 1 turnover every 24.1 minutes.

So Loyer had more assists/minute.  Not sure where you are getting that Loyer had a 'lower turnover %'.

 

You literally just have to look up his stats.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fletcher-loyer-1.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/trey-galloway-1.html

Go to advanced stats. It's right there.

[Tasmanian Devil]

7 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Theirs are basically the exact same. Trey averaged 1.3 more assist than turnovers. Loyer averaged 1.2. Loyer actually has a higher assist% and lower turnover% than Galloway as well.

And had the benefit of a more complete team around him. Classic example of the Steve Alford rule.

What’s that, you say? ‘87 title game Keith Smart dominated the second half, scoring 17 of his 21 points and hitting the winner from the baseline corner. Expectations were high that Smart would dominate for the Hoosiers the next season - but Smart and Indiana struggled throughout 1987-88.

Why? Go back and look at the championship: Alford drawing the Syracuse defense to him created the lanes which Smart was able to exploit. Take Alford away, and Smart’s effectiveness dropped exponentially.

That’s essentially what everyone is trying to tell you about Loyer. Not a bad player at all, but one that is heavily reliant on the presence of Edey to have an impact. In no way is he a top 100 player.

[str8baller]

13 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Except the empirical evidence shows a very different story;

• Jordy Hulls shot 42% fg and 40% 3pt his freshman year, and that was without Cody Zeller freeing up the perimeter. Also without Watford or Oladipo as a three point threat.
• Jordy Hulls shot  48% fg and 41% 3pt his sophomore year, still with Tom Pritchard as the starting post and Oladipo still not making threes.
• Jordy Hulls shot 48% fg and 46% 3pt once he had a big that drew double teams.

Whereas,

• Fletcher Loyer shot 36.7% fg and 32.6% 3 pt. That is in no way a deadly knockdown shooter by any stretch, and that's far worse than Jordy Hulls ever dreamed (nightmare-d?).

I wrote that was probably his ceiling. I’m not sure what “empirical evidence “ there is for that. Loyer also shot more and played for a better team. Loyer and Hulls shot about the same from the FT line.  I suspect there’s some natural shooting ability he can grow into. 
 

I doubt he becomes he the shooter Hulls was but if you’re projecting him into the top 100, you’d probably envision him being a bigger Hulls type player. 

[Stuhoo]

Here's a little more on the progression of Fletcher Loyer:

Purdue just completed a four game European tour against what amounted to high school level teams. Without Edey they won their games by an average of 31 points, so there were open shots galore.

• The team shot 49.5% from the floor during those four games. 
• Loyer shot 23% from the floor.
•  
• The team shot 36.4% from 3pt during those four games. 
• Loyer shot 31.8% from 3 pt.
•  

• The team shot 56.7% on two point shots
• Loyer was 1-13 (about 8%) on 2 point shots.

It is a distinct possibility that Fletcher Loyer is more of a shot taker than a shot maker. 

[Tasmanian Devil]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Here's a little more on the progression of Fletcher Loyer:

Purdue just completed a four game European tour against what amounted to high school level teams. Without Edey they won their games by an average of 31 points, so there were open shots galore.

• The team shot 49.5% from the floor during those four games. 
• Loyer shot 23% from the floor.
•  
• The team shot 36.4% from 3pt during those four games. 
• Loyer shot 31.8% from 3 pt.
•  

• The team shot 56.7% on two point shots
• Loyer was 1-13 (about 8%) on 2 point shots.

It is a distinct possibility that Fletcher Loyer is more of a shot taker than a shot maker. 

He shot 31% from the arc but 23% from the floor?

How many top 100 guys you know that miss enough layups to drop your shooting percentage 8 points?

[Stuhoo]

6 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

He shot 31% from the arc but 23% from the floor?

How many top 100 guys you know that miss enough layups to drop your shooting percentage 8 points?

1-13 from 2pt against bad competition is NOT good at all. Makes me think the kid has not added weight/strength.

[Tasmanian Devil]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

1-13 from 2pt against bad competition is NOT good at all. Makes me think the kid has not added weight/strength.

Considering the competition I would’ve been expecting 12-13.

How many shots did Loyer take total? Holy cow, how do you miss 90% + of regular FG attempts against - at best - D2 level competition?

[HoosierX]

Am I the only one that had the misconception that Loyer's numbers were much better than they were last year? Did he start the year off well and then drop off?

[Stuhoo]

5 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

Am I the only one that had the misconception that Loyer's numbers were much better than they were last year? Did he start the year off well and then drop off?

To my semi-but not really-trained eye Loyer's got a decent looking shooting stroke, but it's not a stroke that has resulted in made shots.

For instance, I would swear that guys like CJ Gunn, Tamar Bates, Phinisee and Loyer have better looking shooting strokes than Xavier Johnson, but there's a proven track record that X's shot goes in. And that's the bottom line until Loyer changes it.

[Tasmanian Devil]

19 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

Am I the only one that had the misconception that Loyer's numbers were much better than they were last year? Did he start the year off well and then drop off?

Out of 35 games Loyer shot below 30% twelve times - including an 0-9 stretch late in the season against Illinois and Rutgers.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

19 hours ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

And had the benefit of a more complete team around him. Classic example of the Steve Alford rule.

What’s that, you say? ‘87 title game Keith Smart dominated the second half, scoring 17 of his 21 points and hitting the winner from the baseline corner. Expectations were high that Smart would dominate for the Hoosiers the next season - but Smart and Indiana struggled throughout 1987-88.

Why? Go back and look at the championship: Alford drawing the Syracuse defense to him created the lanes which Smart was able to exploit. Take Alford away, and Smart’s effectiveness dropped exponentially.

That’s essentially what everyone is trying to tell you about Loyer. Not a bad player at all, but one that is heavily reliant on the presence of Edey to have an impact. In no way is he a top 100 player.

Did Galloway not play with arguably the player in the nation this past season and the best passing center in the nation?

[Stuhoo]

16 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Did Galloway not play with arguably the player in the nation this past season and the best passing center in the nation?

Yes, and he shot something like 46% from three 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

9 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Yes, and he shot something like 46% from three 

Yes. Trey finally improved in his 3rd year... because people can improve. Crazy.

[HoosierHoopster]

47 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Yes. Trey finally improved in his 3rd year... because people can improve. Crazy.

Well yeah, they can, kind of like Oladipo going from shooting in the 20s to 45% or so his jr year. 
 

What I really liked about Gallo’s jump is it came after the talk of his shot being “broken” bc of high school injury, that it wasn’t likely he could improve it much. I’ve always admired the guys most who prove people wrong, who give it their all and make big jumps, and in contrast, I’ve least admired the fans who castigate players and say they are just not good enough, etc.

Gallo’s a workhorse, fireplug, aggressive team-first player, both sides of the ball player, who leaves it all on the floor. That he could shut the people up who said his shot was broken? Icing on the cake

[JimmerNoe]

Just chiming in that independent of this thread I had a conversation with an Illini buddy this weekend and I concluded that Loyer is just not that good. I also would have expected better numbers. I actually wonder if his numbers will get worse next year when the book is out that you can just pressure the hell out of their backcourt because they are frail boys.

Had to get that jab in because there is way too much Purdue sympathizing going on for my taste.


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[Tasmanian Devil]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Yes. Trey finally improved in his 3rd year... because people can improve. Crazy.

People can also get healthy and not have nagging injuries affect their play. Loyer was healthy all year, correct?