Fire Darian DeVries? Lol

[Josh]

7 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

The other angle is this is financially not possible right now.

CDD's buyout is $18-19M after this season, add $1-2M for staff buyouts, and that's ~$20M to get ride of this staff.  Then add $2-10M more to buyout whatever coach gets picked next, and we're talking $22-30M to flip the MBB staff.  Mind you we just spent $12.7M for forcibly "retire" Woody ($6.5M) and pay WVU's buyout for CDD ($6.2M).

IU is not paying $22-30M for a new bball staff right now.  We don't have that money and it would be a huge waste vs. spending it on football.  Or even MBB players.  Or whatever else.

If you look at the numbers, IUBB (and CBB in general) doesn't make a whole lot of money.  Even if, and it's one heck of a giant IF, the next coach got IUBB going, that's only going to increase revenue ~$2-3M/yr.  Maybe $4M at best.  That's a crap return for spending $22-30M on a new staff, and there are no guarantees they'll be better.

The IU athletic dept doesn't financially need IUBB to be good.  IUFB is driving revenue increases, university exposure, and our influence in college sports.  Our fans/donors have not been this fired up in 40 years.

I agree CDD is off to a bad start.  I'm disappointed and have serious doubts.  But I can't see anything happening until year three, because that's how long coaches get and we can't afford to move right now anyways. 

So, the only options are to hope for the best or tune out.  I guess another option is to post your displeasures on BTB.

I feel like you have to spend the money and I'm curious where you came up with the revenue increase projection.  Staying the course means less ticket revenue, less concessions, less prime time games, less merchandising.  Making a flash hire would increase all these.  It seems like it could be a higher increase than you projected, maybe $8M or more.  In that case your roi could pay for itself in 4 years.  

No reason to wallow in poor basketball because we're scared to spend money

[Golfman25]

Look, yes it takes time.  And I am willing to give the guy time.  HOWEVER, there are signs that Devries is in over his head.   
 

I have said it a 100 times — the model is down the hall.  Cig brought most of his staff and a core group of players and worked from there.  
 

Devries started with nothing, took time to hire assistants, thus botching the portal. Why, why, why?  WTF is that?  Aren’t assistants and transition discussed at the interview?   How the hell can that happen?   Ok fine, strike one.  
 

So he ends up with a team of portal scraps.  Problem is he runs them out there like a rec team — shooting stupid long threes from the logo early in the shot clock.   There is nothing coordinated on offense — and once again we go minutes without scoring.  At what point do you adjust, try something else?   Strike two.

we are just waiting for that last strike.  

[str8baller]

12 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

The other angle is this is financially not possible right now.

CDD's buyout is $18-19M after this season, add $1-2M for staff buyouts, and that's ~$20M to get rid of this staff.  Then add $2-10M more to buyout whatever coach gets picked next, and we're talking $22-30M to flip the MBB staff.  Mind you we just spent $12.7M for forcibly "retire" Woody ($6.5M) and pay WVU's buyout for CDD ($6.2M).

IU is not paying $22-30M for a new bball staff right now.  We don't have that money and it would be a huge waste vs. spending it on football.  Or even MBB players.  Or whatever else.

If you look at the numbers, IUBB (and CBB in general) doesn't make a whole lot of money.  Even if, and it's one heck of a giant IF, the next coach got IUBB going, that's only going to increase revenue ~$2-3M/yr.  Maybe $4M at best.  That's a crap return for spending $22-30M on a new staff, and there are no guarantees they'll be better.

The IU athletic dept doesn't financially need IUBB to be good.  IUFB is driving revenue increases, university exposure, and our influence in college sports.  Our fans/donors have not been this fired up in 40 years.

I agree CDD is off to a bad start.  I'm disappointed and have serious doubts.  But I can't see anything happening until year three, because that's how long coaches get and we can't afford to move right now anyways. 

So, the only options are to hope for the best or tune out.  I guess another option is to post your displeasures on BTB.

I don’t think anyone thinks it’s happening for the reasons you state. Pretty sure even the OP believes that. Nor should it happen before year 2.  
 

But this is a good enough thread to discuss the failures of the year instead rehashing it in every other thread.

 

Today was bad. Iowa is bad and they whipped us on our home floor in a desperation game. Coaches only get so many of those. It’s not just this board. The crowd was audibly booing at halftime. We’re so bad this year they can probably miss the tournament next year if we “show improvement “ because of the contract situation. Unless next year is 180 degree turn around, things are going to be ugly for the next 18 mos. 

[HinnyHoosier]

4 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Look, yes it takes time.  And I am willing to give the guy time.  HOWEVER, there are signs that Devries is in over his head.   
 

I have said it a 100 times — the model is down the hall.  Cig brought most of his staff and a core group of players and worked from there.  
 

Devries started with nothing, took time to hire assistants, thus botching the portal. Why, why, why?  WTF is that?  Aren’t assistants and transition discussed at the interview?   How the hell can that happen?   Ok fine, strike one.  
 

So he ends up with a team of portal scraps.  Problem is he runs them out there like a rec team — shooting stupid long threes from the logo early in the shot clock.   There is nothing coordinated on offense — and once again we go minutes without scoring.  At what point do you adjust, try something else?   Strike two.

we are just waiting for that last strike.  

If transition wasn't discussed in detail, or if it was and this was the scenario Dolson accepted, then strike one is a 50/50 split between SD and DDV.

[AZ Hoosier]

16 minutes ago, Josh said:

I feel like you have to spend the money and I'm curious where you came up with the revenue increase projection.  Staying the course means less ticket revenue, less concessions, less prime time games, less merchandising.  Making a flash hire would increase all these.  It seems like it could be a higher increase than you projected, maybe $8M or more.  In that case your roi could pay for itself in 4 years.  

No reason to wallow in poor basketball because we're scared to spend money

Let me ask you who you would be able to hire today? Any coaches worth their salt are coaching and would not leave their team less than 20 games into the season. So you want to fire DeVries and run a lame duck coach for the next 20 games? What kind of positive press and revenue stream do you project that getting us?

DeVries may or may not be "the guy", but he's gonna get at least 3 years, so just buckle up and enjoy the ride. Remember RMK's comments to Connie Chung? 

[str8baller]

14 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

They just use more of their brains

Again, what part of your brain were you using when you wanted Davis signed to an extension? Wanted Creans last extension? All that patience resulted in the mighty Archie being hired. Then you patiently gave him 4 years so we could get Woody who was patiently given 4 years. Your patience with Woody likely cost us a chance at Dusty May, btw. 
 

So please show us where your patience has resulted in anything positive for IU basketball. 

[Josh]

5 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Let me ask you who you would be able to hire today? Any coach worth their salt are coaching and would not leave their team less than 20 games into the season. So you want to fire DeVries and run a lame duck coach for the next 20 games? What kind of positive press and revenue stream do you project that getting us.

DeVries may or may not be "the guy", but he's gonna get at least 3 years, so just buckle up and enjoy the ride. Remember RMK's comments to Connie Chung? 

You're right, nobody is taking the job mid season.  So he stays to the end then takes a leave for per$onal reasons and we hire a new coach.  I'm not actually advocating for him to lose his job today.  He can stay until March 8th lol

[JSHoosier]

7 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Let me ask you who you would be able to hire today? Any coach worth their salt are coaching and would not leave their team less than 20 games into the season. So you want to fire DeVries and run a lame duck coach for the next 20 games? What kind of positive press and revenue stream do you project that getting us.

DeVries may or may not be "the guy", but he's gonna get at least 3 years, so just buckle up and enjoy the ride. Remember RMK's comments to Connie Chung? 

This is IU. He'd get 4 minimum even if it was beyond obvious he should be gone after 3.

[Pagoda]

26 minutes ago, Josh said:

I feel like you have to spend the money and I'm curious where you came up with the revenue increase projection.  Staying the course means less ticket revenue, less concessions, less prime time games, less merchandising.  Making a flash hire would increase all these.  It seems like it could be a higher increase than you projected, maybe $8M or more.  In that case your roi could pay for itself in 4 years.  

No reason to wallow in poor basketball because we're scared to spend money

We don't have the money -- there isn't $22-30M laying around to change out the staff.

As for estimating revenue, I just look at historical revenue trends.  Revenue doesn't move as much as one might think -- CBB doesn't make a lot of money and IUBB always sells a lot of tickets (even if they're unused).  Look at our all-time low point of 08-09, it just didn't dip that much vs. years we were better like '07-08 or '11-12.

And if you want a splashy hire, add $6M+ per year in HC comp vs. what we pay now.

I'm not happy with the start of the CDD era, but a staff change right now isn't financially in the cards.

[HinnyHoosier]

15 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Again, what part of your brain were you using when you wanted Davis signed to an extension? Wanted Creans last extension? All that patience resulted in the mighty Archie being hired. Then you patiently gave him 4 years so we could get Woody who was patiently given 4 years. Your patience with Woody likely cost us a chance at Dusty May, btw. 
 

So please show us where your patience has resulted in anything positive for IU basketball. 

Lol. I think you know I didn't make those decisions. I never said they should've been made. I EVEN said earlier waiting too long got us here, if you weren't too busy furiously looking for someone in here to blame instead of reading. Go talk to the leaders of the nepotism department on those decisions. The point I am making, and it's not just me, is that you can over-correct and move too fast when throwing a massive hissy fit about your situation. Do you want to dig out of the hole, or start over in a deeper one next season? Fire after year one and you might as well add a bigger shovel, heck a backhoe, to the list of growing expenditures.

[8bucks]

1 minute ago, Pagoda said:

We don't have the money -- there isn't $22-30M laying around to change out the staff.

As for estimating revenue, I just look at historical peaks and troughs.  Revenue doesn't move as much as one might think -- CBB doesn't make a lot of money and IUBB always sells a lot of tickets (even if they're unused).  Look at our all-time low point of 08-09, it just didn't dip that much vs. years we were better like '07-08 or '11-12.

 

 

I know kids from the eastern part of the US that went to IU solely because they were basketball fans and wanted to experience it. Unfortunately they were there during some very lean years.  
 

So you would have to figure the impact of increased enrollment from basketball, however, football is more than doing this now. I doubt if we had a great basketball and football program it would have much of an impact vs a great football program and a meh basketball program. 
 

I do wonder if there is risk in losing donor money if the on court product is not much improved. 
 

I bet WVU fans are enjoying this. 

[Home Jersey]

9 minutes ago, Josh said:

You're right, nobody is taking the job mid season.  So he stays to the end then takes a leave for per$onal reasons and we hire a new coach.  I'm not actually advocating for him to lose his job today.  He can stay until March 8th lol

So unrealistic lol

[Pagoda]

4 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

I do wonder if there is risk in losing donor money if the on court product is not much improved. 

Yea.  I don't know exactly how we get to $10M roster spend -- something like $3.5M rev share and $6.5M NIL.  The rev share is the AD's call, but that NIL could be at risk.  CDD is going to have to work the donors and have a great speech at Hubers to explain what went wrong and why it will not repeat.  Because if I am a donor, and he asks for $2M more, I'm gonna ask if that's for another Reed Bailey?

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

[str8baller]

11 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

I EVEN said earlier waiting too long got us here,

You said no coach would want to come here if we fire coaches too early. 
 

Problem is that sounds good to fans but the reality is we hang on to coaches too long and no coaches want to come here. Preaching patience is for losers, even if the situation demands a little patience because of a lack of options. 

[Josh]

12 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

We don't have the money -- there isn't $22-30M laying around to change out the staff.

As for estimating revenue, I just look at historical revenue trends.  Revenue doesn't move as much as one might think -- CBB doesn't make a lot of money and IUBB always sells a lot of tickets (even if they're unused).  Look at our all-time low point of 08-09, it just didn't dip that much vs. years we were better like '07-08 or '11-12.

And if you want a splashy hire, add $6M+ per year in HC comp vs. what we pay now.

I'm not happy with the start of the CDD era, but a staff change right now isn't financially in the cards.

I love the facts, thanks.  I do see a big difference between 05-06 and 07-08.  Almost $7M

As for the buyout money,  I know it's not sitting on a table right now.  But I also know there are some furious big time donors who will be stopping their contributions and would be willing to help pay to fix things.

[Josh]

8 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

So unrealistic lol

No doubt but this is my daydream!  

[HinnyHoosier]

4 minutes ago, str8baller said:

You said no coach would want to come here if we fire coaches too early. 
 

Problem is that sounds good to fans but the reality is we hang on to coaches too long and no coaches want to come here. Preaching patience is for losers, even if the situation demands a little patience because of a lack of options. 

I literally said waiting too long is part of what got us here. Moving too fast can also keep us here. Contrary to popular misbelief, two things can be true at the same time.

Is it wild to believe good coaches who have sense enough to understand wouldn't want to come here if we're chopping heads in year one?

[WayneFleekHoosier]

6 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

Yea.  I don't know exactly how we get to $10M roster spend -- something like $3.5M rev share and $6.5M NIL.  The rev share is the AD's call, but that NIL could be at risk.  CDD is going to have to work the donors and have a great speech at Hubers to explain what went wrong and why it will not repeat.  Because if I am a donor, and he asks for $2M more, I'm gonna ask if that's for another Reed Bailey?

He needs top 10 NIL. Simple as that.  Are we serious about basketball?  If so, make it top 10 and outspend to generate wins and a turnaround. 
 

If not, hover around 20-30 and plays craps with the program. We see where that got us this year.  

[HinnyHoosier]

8 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

It's Indiana basketball in mid-season form, baby.