Liam decomitting

[Golfman25 5,051]

1 minute ago, KathywithaC said:

A qualified candidate would bristle at the notion, though he / she would understand the need to build a consensus around certain things like major program coaching hires and would intuitively understand why doing that is so vital.

No they wouldn’t.  They would move to a job where they could make decisions and wouldn’t need to put up with BS.  Nobody worth anything is going to do a “consensus” hire if the hire is wrong on it’s face. 

[Tasmanian Devil 1,507]

1 minute ago, steubenhoosier said:

Yes Doherty had one great season, with the previous coach’s players. And yes, his character flaws were part of what led to his firing.

So now it’s his character “issues”?

How about we listen to the people who forced him to resign?

https://www.espn.com/ncb/news/2003/0401/1532553.html
 

From the article:

”Baddour and chancellor James Moeser portrayed Doherty as a coach who failed to communicate and connect with his players, and was unable to move the storied program forward with a 53-43 record in three seasons.

"The issue here is not basketball," Moeser said. "It's not wins and losses or players running the program. It's about leadership.”

Yep - a guy who couldn’t connect with his players. And before you tried to say “yeah, his character flaw was why he couldn’t connect with players”, no coach in the history of the game probably had more character flaws than one Robert Montgomery Knight. You’re either a good coach or you’re not.

Doherty or Woodson fall in the latter category.

[Golfman25 5,051]

2 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

What did he do, in your opinion, that made him worthy of being hired?

Don’t know.  Don’t care.  From the looks of things I think he’s doing a pretty good job with his hands tied.  

[steubenhoosier 801]

3 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

So now it’s his character “issues”?

How about we listen to the people who forced him to resign?

https://www.espn.com/ncb/news/2003/0401/1532553.html
 

From the article:

”Baddour and chancellor James Moeser portrayed Doherty as a coach who failed to communicate and connect with his players, and was unable to move the storied program forward with a 53-43 record in three seasons.

"The issue here is not basketball," Moeser said. "It's not wins and losses or players running the program. It's about leadership.”

Yep - a guy who couldn’t connect with his players. And before you tried to say “yeah, his character flaw was why he couldn’t connect with players”, no coach in the history of the game probably had more character flaws than one Robert Montgomery Knight. You’re either a good coach or you’re not.

Doherty or Woodson fall in the latter category.

Did you read about him screaming at the Duke assistant coach on the court. Calling their cheerleaders ugly? 
What head coach does that?

Crean went after assistant coaches from Michigan and that was definitely held against him. Don’t know of any coach calling out an opponent’s cheerleaders 

[KathywithaC 374]

4 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

No they wouldn’t.  They would move to a job where they could make decisions and wouldn’t need to put up with BS.  Nobody worth anything is going to do a “consensus” hire if the hire is wrong on its face. 

No one would recommend hiring someone who fits that description. But building a consensus among key stakeholders is vital in a university setting. There are simply way too many mouths to feed. It’s that way in most corporate environments as well. The disconnect here centers on leadership.

[KathywithaC 374]

6 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Don’t know.  Don’t care.  From the looks of things I think he’s doing a pretty good job with his hands tied.  

That’s a mischaracterization. 

[go iu bb 5,549]

22 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Nah.  From the looks of things, Dolson hasn’t done anything worthy of firing.  Lets see how the Cig hire works out. 

Bad extension for Allen.

Hired Woodson.

Bad extension for Woodson.

[8bucks 6,352]

23 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

Qualified ones don’t and won’t need the permission you believe Dolson must ask for.

So since SD is not viewed as qualified he in essence has training wheels on where he needs to get consensus before making a decision.  If he were qualified then the "others" would defer to him?

[RaceToTheTop 25,014]

23 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

What did he do, in your opinion, that made him worthy of being hired?

Ask the BOT.  You seem to be giving that a gloss over.

[KathywithaC 374]

46 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

So since SD is not viewed as qualified he in essence has training wheels on where he needs to get consensus before making a decision.  If he were qualified then the "others" would defer to him?

If he was credible, consensus would be easy to build and maintain. If he was experienced, wisdom would lead him to recognize the importance of those stakeholders in the hiring process. Others would never question his authority, and he would never take it for granted. That’s how leadership works. It’s a lot more than just being able to make the call.

Edited March 11 by KathywithaC

[KathywithaC 374]

3 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Ask the BOT.  You seem to be giving that a gloss over.

Do you think he was qualified? Who else did we consider? What role did the BOT have in the selection process? What characteristics do you believe are most important for the ideal candidate?

[str8baller 5,071]

1 hour ago, KathywithaC said:

We are hardly alone.

But you are alone. In the two revenue sports IU is one of the least successful—maybe THE least successful depending on how you quantify it—programs among schools of the new two major conferences over the last 20-25 years. You might be able to extend that to all the current P5 schools. 
 

You defend, what I would describe as poor processes (often executed by what sounds like moronic people) by saying that “everyone does it.” But if everyone does it,  why is IU so uniquely incompetent?

[KNOBYDOX 109]

27 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

No one would recommend hiring someone who fits that description. But building a consensus among key stakeholders is vital in a university setting. There are simply way too many mouths to feed. It’s that way in most corporate environments as well. The disconnect here centers on leadership.

You talk about key stakeholders and too many mouths to feed. Would it be fair to say the biggest donors are as important as the BOT in the hiring process?

[Ryno6284 2,565]

3 hours ago, KathywithaC said:

If it’s bad input, does it matter who gave it? Prior to our current situation, bad input produced Mike Davis, Kelvin Sampson, Tom Crean, Archie Miller, Gerry DiNardo, Bill Lynch, Kevin Wilson and Tom Allen. Some of that input came from Trustees, some came from members of search committees, some came from search firms, some came from IU Presidents, and some came from IU ADs. If people either don’t know what they’re evaluating or can’t see issues that are likely to occur down the road, bad results are likely to happen. I get that people think one person can do this, but it’s rarely that straightforward. I realize that’s frustrating but it’s almost never the reason why things haven’t gone well, and it has made fixing some things easier.

Would IU ever look at Chris Beard to coach at IU?

[Tasmanian Devil 1,507]

17 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

Did you read about him screaming at the Duke assistant coach on the court. Calling their cheerleaders ugly? 
What head coach does that?

Crean went after assistant coaches from Michigan and that was definitely held against him. Don’t know of any coach calling out an opponent’s cheerleaders 

Again, I never said Doherty was a GOOD coach.

But he accomplished more a UNC than what Woodson has at IU. That is indisputable, as I showed you before.

He at least had the "character" to resign to not be forced into being fired so, in fact, he showed character. What has Woodson done to show character?

He takes credit for Ware, but refused to take any blame up until things got hot the last couple of weeks.

He said he wasn't responsible for getting Miller Kopp 3-pt shots? Really, coach? You aren't responsible for the offense you team plays?

He said he played the inside-out his first two years because of TJD and Race, but was moving to a 4-out offense this year. But he not only didn't do that, he doubled and triple-down on the "game is played from the inside-out" stance.

Despite IU's resources and NIL budget, he has 0 recruits for this next year. ZERO. Let that sink in. He offered scholarships to 31 players and the one that had signed on backed out a few days ago in large part because of the inside-out offense IU has ran all year (guess he believed, as we all did, Woodson was going to install a open offense that utilized shooters. you know, his specialty?).

Mike Woodson - considering his age, his results, AND his plan for the future, deserves to be removed from his position. Anywhere else that is serious about basketball would , unless there is someone from the BoT / Big Donors blocking it.

[8bucks 6,352]

19 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

If he was credible, consensus would be easy to build and maintain. If he was experienced, wisdom would lead him to recognize the importance of those stakeholders in the hiring process. Others would never question his authority, and he would never take it for granted. That’s how leadership works. It’s a lot more than just being to make the call.

Interesting since you mentioned that he and QB were on the same page.  It would seem SD, if viewed as unqualified, has an impossible task.  If he has to get consensus from a group who questions his qualifications then even if the consensus hire has success the group would feel they vs he chose this person. 

[Tasmanian Devil 1,507]

1 hour ago, JSHoosier said:

Could've just hired a qualified AD to begin with. 

Pat Kraft says hello.

[Golfman25 5,051]

45 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

Bad extension for Allen.

Hired Woodson.

Bad extension for Woodson.

From the looks of things, those may not have been Dolson's decisions.  It was a consensus after all.  

[Ryno6284 2,565]

20 minutes ago, Ryno6284 said:

Would IU ever look at Chris Beard to coach at IU?

If SD was to want to hire Chris Beard to coach at IU, would he be able to make that hire on his own?

[KathywithaC 374]

28 minutes ago, str8baller said:

But you are alone. In the two revenue sports IU is one of the least successful—maybe THE least successful depending on how you quantify it—programs among schools of the new two major conferences over the last 20-25 years. You might be able to extend that to all the current P5 schools. 
 

You defend, what I would describe as poor processes (often executed by what sounds like moronic people) by saying that “everyone does it.” But if everyone does it,  why is IU so uniquely incompetent?

Please stop making the mistake of conflating “explaining” and “defending”.