They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[AH1971]

1 minute ago, Scotty R said:

I am saying that your user name on HSN in IndianaResident16 since you have the same style of posting

Like I said, I don’t know what that means. What is HSN?

[steubenhoosier]

19 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Agreed. I, too, was fortunate enough to witness Bob Knight's glory years in the early '70s through the mid '90s...through the years, Knight and Keady battled each other, but both taught the game, developed young boys into men who understood a lot about doing your job, doing it the right way and just flat working hard. Sadly, the farm school up north has continued that work in the person of Matt Painter, and Indiana has floundered with clowns and incompetence.

It's pretty depressing, actually, and even more so that the clown leading the program today was a product of Knight's mentoring.

I was there as well. First season watching was 1972.

The comparison holds kind of true. RMK set the bar higher than Keady ever could. The IU fanbase expectations are greater because of this. May in part explain why our fanbase is more impatient and expresses the angst that they do.

 

[OKHOOSIER]

26 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I think on the surface it's fair to view it that way, but don't see how you can ignore his performance at Georgia. If we need to give coaches time to build, fail, learn, and then grow as you put it... it seems Crean did not learn and then subsequently grow. 

And what do you make of the talk about HS coaches in Indiana supposedly no longer supporting him? 

It’s far more nuanced than that, and I suspect he knows that. Firing Crean was the right move. Hiring Archie didn’t work out, it is what it is. I thought Archie would win. He didn’t. I thought Mike Woodson would set us back another stretch, and he has. Conflating Archie not working and Woodson not working is just as obtuse as ignoring everything but the good with TC. 
 

I do applaud your patience with the double speak bad faith arguments where the goal posts move like when Vandy beat Bama last year lol

[IUFAN1976]

44 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Agreed... and we still have an incompetent, entitled and arrogant man in the coaching position... let's start with getting him fired, first and foremost.

Exactly, seems some are putting the cart before the horse 

[OKHOOSIER]

15 minutes ago, VFury said:

Matt Painter is a very forward thinking coach, the fact he's an alum is just a happy coincidence. Also, he coached 12 years before advancing past the sweet 16 and completely bottomed out for 2 years. we would have fired him long before he became as successful as he has been.

I mean acting like Purdue fans were all okay with Painter getting more time is revisionist history lol, they had a completely fractured fanbase of Sainters VS Ainters. It worked out for them, cool, but it wasn’t some smooth line to him not getting fired or leaving for another job. 

[AZ Hoosier]

6 minutes ago, VFury said:

See this is exactly what I'm talking about. This exact thing won a lot of games in the 70's and 80's. It's meaningless now. You can point to Painter all you want, but he is a very modern coach who isn't who you think he is. He's one of the best offensive minds in the game. To think your just gonna be among the best by simply working hard, going to class, and bounce passing it better than everyone else is delusional and, again, why IU has sucked for 25 years.

The style of play is different today, but the fundamentals (no pun intended) still apply. Define a winning culture, recruit to that culture, develop players for all roles - "stars" and contributors ("role players"), play hard nose defense and a modern offense. Develop a system and recruit players who fit that system...

[IUFAN1976]

28 minutes ago, Shooter said:

Yep. After I typed that about Painter, I realized it is equally true for Curt Cignetti.

Cignetti definitely recruits to his system and how he wants his players to play

[Scotty R]

6 minutes ago, VFury said:

See this is exactly what I'm talking about. This exact thing won a lot of games in the 70's and 80's. It's meaningless now. You can point to Painter all you want, but he is a very modern coach who isn't who you think he is. He's one of the best offensive minds in the game. To think your just gonna be among the best by simply working hard, going to class, and bounce passing it better than everyone else is delusional and, again, why IU has sucked for 25 years.

Where have I talked about playing style but a culture that obviously you don't understand. You won't win by just paying players that don't fit a system. Did UCONN just build through NIL and the portal or did they build through a culture that their coach instills.

 

[AH1971]

1 minute ago, OKHOOSIER said:

I mean acting like Purdue fans were all okay with Painter getting more time is revisionist history lol, they had a completely fractured fanbase of Sainters VS Ainters. It worked out for them, cool, but it wasn’t some smooth line to him not getting fired or leaving for another job. 

There was a small(ish) sect of Purdue fans who wanted Painter fired. I think every fan base has those types of fans at any given juncture. But they certainly didn’t have Purdue media publications writing hit pieces about him or declaring the entire team was transferring or board “insiders” hammering home that the administration had deals in place with sitting HoF caliber coaches all while in-season.

A little bit different.

[Scotty R]

4 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

The style of play is different today, but the fundamentals (no pun intended) still apply. Define a winning culture, recruit to that culture, develop players for all roles - "stars" and contributors ("role players"), play hard nose defense and a modern offense. Develop a system and recruit players who fit that system...

Just look to UCONN for that

[steubenhoosier]

14 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

Why we sucked is that we went away from what made IU great. A culture and foundation of a program built on hard work, toughness and playing as a team. We went away from our recruiting strategies and tried to go the route of getting the highest rated players as possible. It use to be about evaluating and developing players and now it is about paying the most money for entitled players.

It is time to go back to what made IU great and that is get a hard nosed coach who will instill a culture built around the team and not individuals. It is time to go back to recruiting our hot bed area and getting the very best of Indiana high school players then going out from Indiana. It is time to go back to having the whole being greater than its parts and build a program and not a team.

Understand, and agree in part. What you are asking for isn’t going to happen in today’s world.

Back in the day, basketball was regionalized. You only saw games played in your neck of the woods. Players mostly saw a few teams. Certainly, their recruitments were influenced by this. Now, kids can watch programs all over the country and see how different coaches Coach, and interact with the players. 
 

My point is, the days of “locking down the state” are long gone. No way can a coach rely on just pulling the best players from Indiana- they have too many options 

[IUFAN1976]

19 minutes ago, VFury said:

Matt Painter is a very forward thinking coach, the fact he's an alum is just a happy coincidence. Also, he coached 12 years before advancing past the sweet 16 and completely bottomed out for 2 years. we would have fired him long before he became as successful as he has been.

And he will tell you, because I know him personally, he learned a lot about coaching from Keady and Knight but it was Knight’s advice that got him back on track when he bottomed out. 

[cbp4iu]

34 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Seems a little weird in here today. 

Has the booze started?

[steubenhoosier]

12 minutes ago, VFury said:

See this is exactly what I'm talking about. This exact thing won a lot of games in the 70's and 80's. It's meaningless now. You can point to Painter all you want, but he is a very modern coach who isn't who you think he is. He's one of the best offensive minds in the game. To think your just gonna be among the best by simply working hard, going to class, and bounce passing it better than everyone else is delusional and, again, why IU has sucked for 25 years.

Wait. His offensive strategy the last few years was to throw it into Andre the Giant and let him bully his way to the basket. 

[Home Jersey]

On Monday morning, this thread was on page 1771. We will almost certainly pass page 1900 tonight. 

You guys are great and all (for the most part) but I'm starting to rethink my lifestyle choices... lol

[JF87]

2 hours ago, AH1971 said:

Solely responsible? Of course not never said that. But if you don't win overnight, you're on the chopping block quick. 

I'd be willing to give the right coach time if you can see incremental improvement and the establishment of a style and culture.  However, Mike Woodson is not that guy.  Fire Mike Woodson.  

[Scotty R]

6 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

Understand, and agree in part. What you are asking for isn’t going to happen in today’s world.

Back in the day, basketball was regionalized. You only saw games played in your neck of the woods. Players mostly saw a few teams. Certainly, their recruitments were influenced by this. Now, kids can watch programs all over the country and see how different coaches Coach, and interact with the players. 
 

My point is, the days of “locking down the state” are long gone. No way can a coach rely on just pulling the best players from Indiana- they have too many options 

You are probably right about the recruiting but I still think that is where you start then branch out. If our recruiting class this year started with Mullins, Harrelson and Sisely that is a great start. To me you still need to recruit high school and then supplement it with transfers

[VFury]

2 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

Wait. His offensive strategy the last few years was to throw it into Andre the Giant and let him bully his way to the basket. 

If he were only good the years he had Edey I would have taken this comment seriously.

[Silat Player]

40 minutes ago, VFury said:

We would have torn Painter to shreds if he were at IU had didn't do anything with Hummel and then proceeded to miss a couple tournaments in a row. We essentially were at the same impasse with Crean, and we booted him out before he got the chance to change.

We booted Crean out before he got a chance to change? LOL

He got 9 years! And his tenure at Georgia showed that he had zero intention of changing. Picking a case or two like Painter and then applying that to all underachieving coaching coaches is not exactly how reasonable evaluation works. Painter is an outlier. 

Usually coaches show you exactly who they are. 

Crean failed at Georgia after he failed at IU.
Archie has failed at Rhode Island after he failed at IU.
Davis has failed everywhere after he failed at IU.

As we all know, the only decent coach IU has had post-RMK is Sampson, and he has shown that at Houston. 

This revisionist history about IU not giving coaches a chance is silly.

[JSHoosier]

Saw several new pages and that IU might have pulled their head out of their arse. So disappointing.

IU WILL NOT HIRE BRAD BROWNELL OR WILL WADE. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

FIRE.

MIKE.

WOODSON.