They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[Uspshoosier]

12 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Once again, someone show me 10, let alone 12 Bigten wins.  With no quality non conference wins, they basically have to run the table.   Any home loss means you have to pick up an extra one on the road.  Given the Woodson era, It’s a tall order.

They wouldn’t need to run the table.  Committee don’t care where the Q1 wins from.  While it would have been nice to win a quality non conference win(providence is a Q2 as of now)  it isn’t necessary when you play in a conference with as many of Q1 opportunities as the B1G gives teams this year.   Hypothetically if IU went 10-10 with Q3 wins over Minny, Rutgers and USC but the other 7 wins in the 2nd toughest conference were Q1 wins there would be 0 chance the committee would leave them out of the tourney.   They would have 0 bad losses and 7 Q1 wins and finished .500 in the second best conference with a top 100 overall SOS and a no con sos in the 150s.  Now we all can see the team on the floor and like you said finding 10 more wins doesn’t seem likely however that doesn’t mean there isn’t a path.   Whoever thinks they would need 12 or 13 wins in the B1G to even be considered are wrong in my opinion.  If they won 12 or 13 games they would be comfortably in.  

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, IUFAN1976 said:

  I trust Stuhoo 

What? What?!! You trust a man who doesn’t like percolated coffee??!! 

[MikeRoberts]

21 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

They wouldn’t need to run the table.  Committee don’t care where the Q1 wins from.  While it would have been nice to win a quality non conference win(providence is a Q2 as of now)  it isn’t necessary when you play in a conference with as many of Q1 opportunities as the B1G gives teams this year.   Hypothetically if IU went 10-10 with Q3 wins over Minny, Rutgers and USC but the other 7 wins in the 2nd toughest conference were Q1 wins there would be 0 chance the committee would leave them out of the tourney.   They would have 0 bad losses and 7 Q1 wins and finished .500 in the second best conference with a top 100 overall SOS and a no con sos in the 150s.  Now we all can see the team on the floor and like you said finding 10 more wins doesn’t seem likely however that doesn’t mean there isn’t a path.   Whoever thinks they would need 12 or 13 wins in the B1G to even be considered are wrong in my opinion.  If they won 12 or 13 games they would be comfortably in.  

I’m not going to argue what it will take as you are pretty dialed in there.

What I will say is that it will be VERY difficult for IU to move on from Woodson if he makes the tourney. I was told that I was wrong/what I was told was wrong by others but I will only believe it when I see it. Firing a coach that made the tourney is rare. 
 

I think we make it in with 20-13 and we retain him

[TheWatShot]

It keeps getting drowned out, but I'll keep posting it anyway: Woodson has 2 years left on his contract. If we planned on him being here more than 4 years, we would have already extended him. 

[RoadRage]

4 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

I’m not going to argue what it will take as you are pretty dialed in there.

What I will say is that it will be VERY difficult for IU to move on from Woodson if he makes the tourney. I was told that I was wrong/what I was told was wrong by others but I will only believe it when I see it. Firing a coach that made the tourney is rare. 
 

I think we make it in with 20-13 and we retain him

I don't think they want to remove him yet, so I agree, making the tournament will give them all the cover they need to bring him back for another year! But if he fails to make the tournament the pressure to fire him will be too great! I'm still rooting for us to make the tournament but I think we fall short!

[MikeRoberts]

6 minutes ago, RoadRage said:

I don't think they want to remove him yet, so I agree, making the tournament will give them all the cover they need to bring him back for another year! But if he fails to make the tournament the pressure to fire him will be too great! I'm still rooting for us to make the tournament but I think we fall short!

No doubt, if we don’t make it he will retire/get fired and he should. If he makes it… he will likely be retained. 

[MikeRoberts]

9 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

It keeps getting drowned out, but I'll keep posting it anyway: Woodson has 2 years left on his contract. If we planned on him being here more than 4 years, we would have already extended him. 

So they signed him a 6 year contract with no intent on him being here more than 4?

[Oggyiu]

1 minute ago, MikeRoberts said:

No doubt, if we don’t make it he will retire/get fired and he should. If he makes it… he will likely be retained. 

He should not be retained just for making the tournament.

If they have a deep run, then it’s up for conversation 

[TheWatShot]

1 minute ago, MikeRoberts said:

So they signed him a 6 year contract with no intent on him being here more than 4?

Of course. Coaches rarely reach the end of their contracts. Woodson himself said he wanted to win right away because he knew he didn't have a lot of time to do it. 

[go iu bb]

Just now, Oggyiu said:

He should not be retained just for making the tournament.

If they have a deep run, then it’s up for conversation 

In the offseason, even his supporters said the floor with this team should be a S16 and anything less would be a failure of a season.

[MikeRoberts]

4 minutes ago, Oggyiu said:

He should not be retained just for making the tournament.

If they have a deep run, then it’s up for conversation 

I’m with you, I don’t think he should. I want him gone. People talk about optics of firing a coach after 3 years vs a full cycle of 4 but it looks even worse to fire a coach that made the tourney.

[MikeRoberts]

5 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Of course. Coaches rarely reach the end of their contracts. Woodson himself said he wanted to win right away because he knew he didn't have a lot of time to do it. 

That’s not what you said though. You said they had no intent on him staying past 4 years. 

[Hornsby]

He should not be retained just for making the tournament.
If they have a deep run, then it’s up for conversation 

No he shouldn't be but he probably would be unless they paid him enough to leave. My guess is he would be back. If it's this forgone conclusion he is gone why did the boosters go all in on him??

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

[TheWatShot]

5 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

I’m with you, I don’t think he should. I want him gone. People talk about optics of firing a coach after 3 years vs a full cycle of 4 but it looks even worse to fire a coach that made the tourney.

UK obviously didn't get that memo last spring. Then again, they don't run their program like a bunch of teenage girls afraid to wear a new dress to the dance. 

 

5 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

That’s not what you said though. You said they had no intent on him staying past 4 years. 

I have no idea how long they planned on him being here. I think they hoped for at least 4 years, which is why they went with 6 for the contract. I think Buckner wanted an extension after Year 2, but Dolson hadn't seen enough, and that's why he got a raise instead. Regardless, letting a coach go into his last 2 seasons with no clear future kills recruiting. They aren't going to bring him back on just 2 years. 

[MikeRoberts]

18 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

UK obviously didn't get that memo last spring. Then again, they don't run their program like a bunch of teenage girls afraid to wear a new dress to the dance. 

 

I have no idea how long they planned on him being here. I think they hoped for at least 4 years, which is why they went with 6 for the contract. I think Buckner wanted an extension after Year 2, but Dolson hadn't seen enough, and that's why he got a raise instead. Regardless, letting a coach go into his last 2 seasons with no clear future kills recruiting. They aren't going to bring him back on just 2 years. 

As you alluded to we’re not UK, they have much higher standards. Look, I want him gone but there is nothing odd about waiting until the end of this season to extend him if he makes the tourney or better. 

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, Uspshoosier said:

They wouldn’t need to run the table.  Committee don’t care where the Q1 wins from.  While it would have been nice to win a quality non conference win(providence is a Q2 as of now)  it isn’t necessary when you play in a conference with as many of Q1 opportunities as the B1G gives teams this year.   Hypothetically if IU went 10-10 with Q3 wins over Minny, Rutgers and USC but the other 7 wins in the 2nd toughest conference were Q1 wins there would be 0 chance the committee would leave them out of the tourney.   They would have 0 bad losses and 7 Q1 wins and finished .500 in the second best conference with a top 100 overall SOS and a no con sos in the 150s.  Now we all can see the team on the floor and like you said finding 10 more wins doesn’t seem likely however that doesn’t mean there isn’t a path.   Whoever thinks they would need 12 or 13 wins in the B1G to even be considered are wrong in my opinion.  If they won 12 or 13 games they would be comfortably in.  

You’re talking brackets and Q1.  I am just talking likelihood of wins.   Suffice it to say they have to win a lot.   Like I said, show me 10 wins.  They have 2, with 8 home games left.  They win them all they are there, BUT that means beating IL, Purdue and UCLA.  Say they win 1 of the three, then they have to find 2 away games to win.  Maybe Wahington?  NW? OSU?  There just aren't any cupcakes left on the schedule.  

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, TheWatShot said:

UK obviously didn't get that memo last spring. Then again, they don't run their program like a bunch of teenage girls afraid to wear a new dress to the dance. 

 

I have no idea how long they planned on him being here. I think they hoped for at least 4 years, which is why they went with 6 for the contract. I think Buckner wanted an extension after Year 2, but Dolson hadn't seen enough, and that's why he got a raise instead. Regardless, letting a coach go into his last 2 seasons with no clear future kills recruiting. They aren't going to bring him back on just 2 years. 

What recruiting? :)

[WeeDerkaNaut]

My question is will the blowout loss to Louisville hurt us if we're toeing the bid line? And if so, how bad?

[Stuhoo]

5 hours ago, Scotty R said:

I will take the word of a guy who does bracketology nationally who said we need to win at least 12 to be considered. Tonsoni actually won 1st place one year in the bracket matrix or whatever they call it.

If you listen to the Tonsoni podcast he very much tries to punt on the topic BECAUSE he says Andy Bottoms on the podcast with him knows this stuff and he doesn’t.

I like Tonsoni’s game and scheme analysis and he knows IU well, but the guy consistently shows that he doesn’t follow college basketball much beyond Monroe County. He never, never has knowledge about the national scene.

He submits a bracket as part of a named group? That’s fine but he would agree that he’s not an expert. That’s not a knock on him; he’s good at what he’s good at but this isn’t it.

[Uspshoosier]

5 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

He submits a bracket as part of a named group? 

His bracket is the Delphi one he does with the high school kids.    I’ve talked with him before on bracketology in the past through PM on twitter.  He does follow college basketball closely and is knowledgeable with the bracketology part of things.   He is a good follow for bracketology as well.  He is right Bottoms is really locked in.  My guess his is stuff got lost in translation or he just doesn’t see 10 wins so he doesn’t even want to do hypotheticals and they only have 2 wins right now so no need to project until they get closer to 10.