They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[Golfman25]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

So if you aren’t a franchise type player you’re simply mediocre/ok? Am I reading that right? And anything basketball related doesn’t carry weight? 

Yes.  You become an interchangeable piece.  You guys are really splitting hairs.  None if if matters, as it has nothing to do with coaching.  Can the guy coach or not?   So far, he's mediocre at best at that job.  

[AH1971]

3 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Did you not just define "journeyman?"  Scoring 5-6 pts/gm makes you a bench warmer.  

There’s been a little over 13 million points scored in ~132,000 career NBA games. That 103 ppg team average/15 man roster means the “average” NBA player averages 6.8 points a game. Woodson doubled that. Find something else to argue about, this ain’t it.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/how-many-points-have-been-scored-in-nba-history

[Golfman25]

1 minute ago, AH1971 said:

There’s been a little over 13 million points scored in ~132,000 career NBA games. That 103 ppg team average/15 man roster means the “average” NBA player averages 6.8 points a game. Woodson doubled that. Find something else to argue about, this ain’t it.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/how-many-points-have-been-scored-in-nba-history

Yeah.  You have way too much time on your hands.  

[AH1971]

4 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Yeah.  You have way too much time on your hands.  

Google search yielded that link in less than a second.

Accessible calculator on any standard smart phone and being able to compute simple math another 10-15 seconds. 
 

I spent more time replying to this post now that I think about it and even more time trying to rationalize your initial post. Come to think about it, you’re not worth the time.

[AH1971]

9 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Had a chance to look it up. Didn’t think it was correct.

.741 - Kelvin Sampson
.735 - Bob Knight
.677 - Branch McCracken
.612 - Mike Woodson
.592 - Mike Davis
.552 - Tom Crean
.536 - Archie Miller
.520 - Lou Watson
.190 - Jerry Oliver

Fourth best win % out of nine coaches without a conference title like the two coaches immediately after him in win % who were fired for not winning enough. Seems like a solid argument from those who quickly forgot he’s not a good coach. He’s been a mediocre coach who is getting mediocre results. He hasn’t met or exceeded expectations as an IU coach. That might be good enough for some but I’d like to see IU have a little higher expectations.

He’s been the coach for 3 seasons lol. What’s the acceptable benchmark through 3 seasons in order to be retained? Don’t answer that because whatever it is, is a major reason why so many people laugh at this fan base.

[HoosierAloha]

Is journeyman considered a derogatory term in sports? Always understood it as a role player that was traded/moved a lot. Weird to be offended by such a term given to someone who played in the NBA 30+ years ago. I now realize why his playing career matters because his offense is stuck there.

[RaceToTheTop]

13 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Is journeyman considered a derogatory term in sports? Always understood it as a role player that was traded/moved a lot. Weird to be offended by such a term given to someone who played in the NBA 30+ years ago. I now realize why his playing career matters because his offense is stuck there.

Webster’s dictionary says a journeyman is a worker or sports player who is reliable but not outstanding.

there are a hell of a lot worse things to be called than reliable.  

[HoosierAloha]

I thought we were stating facts. The last 60 years included a hall of famer for about 30 years, another hall of famer who won a few nattys, a great coach who broke rules, and then a bunch of mediocre coaches with a few good seasons over two+ decades. Woody is the best mediocre coach we’ve had? He doesn’t have it. He’s a mediocre coach who can have a solid season but not a coach who is going to overachieve with the talent he has. (This has been shown) I’d expect better than mediocre from IU basketball but if others think he’s doing his job that’s fine by me. I understand trying to be optimistic because we really haven’t had much to cheer about for a hot minute.


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[HoosierAloha]

Glad to know my understanding of the word was close. I believe it’d be just after the all-star and solid role player category for me if I’m grouping NBA players.

[Hornsby]

Had a chance to look it up. Didn’t think it was correct.

.741 - Kelvin Sampson
.735 - Bob Knight
.677 - Branch McCracken
.612 - Mike Woodson
.592 - Mike Davis
.552 - Tom Crean
.536 - Archie Miller
.520 - Lou Watson
.190 - Jerry Oliver

Fourth best win % out of nine coaches without a conference title like the two coaches immediately after him in win % who were fired for not winning enough. Seems like a solid argument from those who quickly forgot he’s not a good coach. He’s been a mediocre coach who is getting mediocre results. He hasn’t met or exceeded expectations as an IU coach. That might be good enough for some but I’d like to see IU have a little higher expectations.

Imagine hiring a guy like Sampson now with no rules and unlimited nil. Yes I know he is old I mean a younger sampson. Be crazy what we could do.

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[Golfman25]

7 hours ago, AH1971 said:

Google search yielded that link in less than a second.

Accessible calculator on any standard smart phone and being able to compute simple math another 10-15 seconds. 
 

I spent more time replying to this post now that I think about it and even more time trying to rationalize your initial post. Come to think about it, you’re not worth the time.

I rest my case.  

[Golfman25]

7 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

I thought we were stating facts. The last 60 years included a hall of famer for about 30 years, another hall of famer who won a few nattys, a great coach who broke rules, and then a bunch of mediocre coaches with a few good seasons over two+ decades. Woody is the best mediocre coach we’ve had? He doesn’t have it. He’s a mediocre coach who can have a solid season but not a coach who is going to overachieve with the talent he has. (This has been shown) I’d expect better than mediocre from IU basketball but if others think he’s doing his job that’s fine by me. I understand trying to be optimistic because we really haven’t had much to cheer about for a hot minute.


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It’s such a weak attempt to justify Mike Woodson.  Sure it’s a “fact.”  But facts need to be taken into context.  And in context, Mike Woodson’s results have been uninspiring.  

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

8 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Had a chance to look it up. Didn’t think it was correct.

.741 - Kelvin Sampson
.735 - Bob Knight
.677 - Branch McCracken
.612 - Mike Woodson
.592 - Mike Davis
.552 - Tom Crean
.536 - Archie Miller
.520 - Lou Watson
.190 - Jerry Oliver

Fourth best win % out of nine coaches without a conference title like the two coaches immediately after him in win % who were fired for not winning enough. Seems like a solid argument from those who quickly forgot he’s not a good coach. He’s been a mediocre coach who is getting mediocre results. He hasn’t met or exceeded expectations as an IU coach. That might be good enough for some but I’d like to see IU have a little higher expectations.

Winning percentage aside, I think Crean was still a better coach. Since Knight id rank em...

 

1. Sampson

2. Crean

3. Mike Woodson and Mike Davis

4. Archie Miller

[IUFAN1976]

11 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

This is wild behavior here today.

Woodson did B- work year one.
Woodson did B work year two.
Woodson did D+ work year three

By moderate Indiana standards.

Roster building flaws, substitution pattern flaws, scouting flaws, on court offense/defense flaws.

Players seem to like him. He has been given a bag to build a winning roster. He seems to have done a good job at that, so far.

The end season behavior taking a stance against the fans ratchets up the pressure on him. He doesn’t seem intimidated by the pressure but he needs an A- or better season this year considering all the factors involved.


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Exactly this!  Well said!

[darB s'tI]

35 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Winning percentage aside, I think Crean was still a better coach. Since Knight id rank em...

 

1. Sampson

2. Crean

3. Mike Woodson and Mike Davis

4. Archie Miller

And way, way down the list:  Dan Dakich.
1. Sampson, and there's a considerable gap between him and the rest
2. Crean
3. Mike Woodson and Archie Miller 
4. Tie for the toilet bowl, Mike Davis & Dan Dakich

None of #2-4 make the best of what we have. They stink, actually. Davis was a clown. Dakich is a clown. Crean & Woody's success has been totally dependent on talent. I love the coaches who can really squeeze talent out of a program and medicre players. Painfully: Purdue, Wisconsin, FAU, Virginia, etc. I honestly thought Archie was that guy.
 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

5 minutes ago, iu-dl said:

And way, way down the list:  Dan Dakich.
1. Sampson, and there's a considerable gap between him and the rest
2. Crean
3. Mike Woodson and Archie Miller 
4. Tie for the toilet bowl, Mike Davis & Dan Dakich

None of #2-4 make the best of what we have. They stink, actually. Davis was a clown. Dakich is a clown. Crean & Woody's success has been totally dependent on talent. I love the coaches who can really squeeze talent out of a program and medicre players. Painfully: Purdue, Wisconsin, FAU, Virginia, etc. I honestly thought Archie was that guy.
 

I don't see anyway possible you could put Archie above Mike Davis. Or even Mike Woodson above Davis. Davis still won a Big Ten championship, made a final four and made an NCAA tourney(something Archie was completely incapable of doing).

[steubenhoosier]

14 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I don't see anyway possible you could put Archie above Mike Davis. Or even Mike Woodson above Davis. Davis still won a Big Ten championship, made a final four and made an NCAA tourney(something Archie was completely incapable of doing).

Frankly, I find some of Davis' behaviors much more appalling than anything Woodson has said. The whole "I don't desreve to coach here" situation was such an embarrassment.

[darB s'tI]

29 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I don't see anyway possible you could put Archie above Mike Davis. Or even Mike Woodson above Davis. Davis still won a Big Ten championship, made a final four and made an NCAA tourney(something Archie was completely incapable of doing).

We can agree to disagree. Once the Knight guys and their habits were gone, it was a full program deterioration. Plus an administrative failure. I can't speak to why Archie found success at Dayton and that didn't transfer to IU, but I would never put Davis in any conversation relating to a quality coach. Archie at least "gets" how to coach, whether the players listen to him or not. Davis....look at his track record after those first couple of years. It's amongst the worst ever, at any school for any coach.

[JSHoosier]

12 minutes ago, iu-dl said:

We can agree to disagree. Once the Knight guys and their habits were gone, it was a full program deterioration. Plus an administrative failure. I can't speak to why Archie found success at Dayton and that didn't transfer to IU, but I would never put Davis in any conversation relating to a quality coach. Archie at least "gets" how to coach, whether the players listen to him or not. Davis....look at his track record after those first couple of years. It's amongst the worst ever, at any school for any coach.

Miller is awful at Rhode Island too. He's not the first coach to do pretty well at Dayton and bomb elsewhere.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

18 minutes ago, iu-dl said:

We can agree to disagree. Once the Knight guys and their habits were gone, it was a full program deterioration. Plus an administrative failure. I can't speak to why Archie found success at Dayton and that didn't transfer to IU, but I would never put Davis in any conversation relating to a quality coach. Archie at least "gets" how to coach, whether the players listen to him or not. Davis....look at his track record after those first couple of years. It's amongst the worst ever, at any school for any coach.

But what Davis did after IU means absolutely nothing. Davis at IU was way better than Archie and it isn't close.