Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[iu eyedoc 1,861]

1 hour ago, DChoosier said:

Damn, I was hoping we would land one of the 4 or 5* not interested in getting paid.  Hopefully we will land some great altruistic guys from the transfer portal.

There is a difference between a great player that wants to play at IU getting paid, and a great player that wants to be paid to play at IU. Maybe that subtle nuance is lost on you.

[HoosierX 1,523]

53 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

I mean, I can kind of see that. But I just can’t imagine the reaction (me included) if we were really behind in NIL or if our program felt like they didn’t really need to play that game. I don’t care the reason behind it. “Competitive” Woodson doesn’t keep his job. Really good coach Woodson keeps his job and the really good job part will have very little, if anything, to do with how much we paid players. I, for one, am glad we are acting like a big boy program and paying players in the era where you have to pay players. Even if we are paying more to try to make our coach more competitive.

I'm with you, we should absolutely be using the advantages we have. I have no problem with these players getting paid.

I think part of the frustration is that Woody had this same advantage last year, and he did very little with it. A lot of people, me included, gave Woody a ton of credit for landing Mgbako and Ware last year. In reality, we probably paid them more than they would have made anywhere else. Again, I have no problem with it, but where is the ROI?

I'm glad we're landing some players, but I'm not sure Woody should get all the credit for it. In reality, the credit probably belongs just as much to the fans he has maligned.

[DChoosier 7,992]

8 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

There is a difference between a great player that wants to play at IU getting paid, and a great player that wants to be paid to play at IU. Maybe that subtle nuance is lost on you.

No, it’s not lost on me.
Your post just happened to be one of a thousand referencing us paying guys. Is $$$ the only reason Tucker wants to play at IU? Maybe, but I don’t know that for sure. Many said that about Ware but he turned out seeming pretty dedicated to IU/winning,

[AZ Hoosier 6,577]

4 hours ago, Hoosier DaDa said:

I feel like this thread needs a T-Shirt..  My idea is below but if someone out there can create a better one let see them.  Whoever comes up with the best one we can sell them and the profits can go to a slush fund to FIRE MIKE WOODSON! 

My contribution to the cause:

[HoosierX 1,523]

10 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

There is a difference between a great player that wants to play at IU getting paid, and a great player that wants to be paid to play at IU. Maybe that subtle nuance is lost on you.

Probably because it's a nuance that's ultimately meaningless in the modern age of college basketball.

The only way you could objectively qualify as the former is by taking less to play at IU than you could make somewhere else.

[DChoosier 7,992]

3 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

I'm with you, we should absolutely be using the advantages we have. I have no problem with these players getting paid.

I think part of the frustration is that Woody had this same advantage last year, and he did very little with it. A lot of people, me included, gave Woody a ton of credit for landing Mgbako and Ware last year. In reality, we probably paid them more than they would have made anywhere else. Again, I have no problem with it, but where is the ROI?

I'm glad we're landing some players, but I'm not sure Woody should get all the credit for it. In reality, the credit probably belongs just as much to the fans he has maligned.

Ware and MM were great “gets” but the ROI was limited due to the backcourt.

Woody didn’t get guards which turned out to be catastrophic. All the coaching issues aside there are not many programs that would have won more than 10 BT games with Cupps/Leal/Gallo/Gunn and the last season version of X on the perimeter. 

[JSHoosier 19,852]

5 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

Probably because it's a nuance that's ultimately meaningless in the modern age of college basketball.

The only way you could objectively qualify as the former is by taking less to play at IU than you could make somewhere else.

Players have been getting paid for a long time, it's just out in the open now. Rex Chapman admitted he took a pay cut to go pro in the 80s.

[HoosierX 1,523]

12 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

Ware and MM were great “gets” but the ROI was limited due to the backcourt.

Woody didn’t get guards which turned out to be catastrophic. All the coaching issues aside there are not many programs that would have won more than 10 BT games with Cupps/Leal/Gallo/Gunn and the last season version of X on the perimeter. 

OK, fair, can't judge the ROI of Ware and Mgbako in a vacuum. However, what I was trying to refer to was the overall ROI of our team. I'm willing to bet we were top 10 in NIL and our team was...not that.

I couldn't care less that we're paying Bryson Tucker, and happy we landed him. But I'm understanding of people who don't think it necessarily means anything.

If your only point is that people shouldn't complain about us paying players, then yeah I agree with you.

[Herotime 723]

#TrueFanOfIUandNoFanOfMikeWoodson

[AZ Hoosier 6,577]

2 hours ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Seems like a lot of posts that have a negative tone about us paying players. We can’t possibly be upset that we are playing the game we have to play, right? 

So, do you really want to open than can of worms? :D

I don't think this is what the NCAA had in mind when they dreamed up the NIL thing. That said, we have to play if we want any chance of being competitive. But where Indiana is right now is exactly what's wrong with NIL in general, and "paying players" specifically. Because Woodson was either unable or unwilling to recruit HS players as has been done since Dr Naismith hung the peach baskets from the balconies. So now he's scrambling to "buy" a team, and no clue how that will turn out, as it's still pretty early in the cycle. And there's the caveat that it will be a "new" team, and Woodson will be the coach to somehow make it all work. It just creates a whole new excuse if this fails, and if it somehow succeeds, then it will very well become his M.O. going forward.

Personally, buying a team of mercenaries kind of turns my stomach. I understand that UCLA started that (with Wooden and Sam Gilbert), and the Kentuckys, Dukes, Kansases and North Carolinas have never looked back. One could argue that at least it's a fairly level playing field, but it truly does just feel wrong.

[HoosierX 1,523]

1 minute ago, JSHoosier said:

Players have been getting paid for a long time, it's just out in the open now. Rex Chapman admitted he took a pay cut to go pro in the 80s.

Ok, I'm not sure how that relates to my ultimate point though. How does someone prove they want to play at IU vs. getting paid? If they want to play at IU but insist on getting paid fair value, what difference is there really? If that person wouldn't take 5% less to play at IU, does that mean they only care about money?

[AZ Hoosier 6,577]

20 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

Ware and MM were great “gets” but the ROI was limited due to the backcourt.

Woody didn’t get guards which turned out to be catastrophic. All the coaching issues aside there are not many programs that would have won more than 10 BT games with Cupps/Leal/Gallo/Gunn and the last season version of X on the perimeter. 

That backcourt limitation was fully and squarely on the architect of that roster - one Michael Dean Woodson. He left an open scholarship and a dearth of serviceable personnel at the guard position. You can't give him credit for the all-star front court and excuse the crappy backcourt. It's his job. He claimed that he did his job, but the proof in in the playing.

[JSHoosier 19,852]

1 minute ago, HoosierX said:

Ok, I'm not sure how that relates to my ultimate point though. How does someone prove they want to play at IU vs. getting paid? If they want to play at IU but insist on getting paid fair value, what difference is there really? If that person wouldn't take 5% less to play at IU, does that mean they only care about money?

My post was more about saying the nuance is lost in modern ball. Not really modern considering how long it's happened. There's probably not a way to quantify it, probably won't hear a player took less to go to IU.

[NashvilleHoosier 3,688]

6 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

So, do you really want to open than can of worms? :D

I don't think this is what the NCAA had in mind when they dreamed up the NIL thing. That said, we have to play if we want any chance of being competitive. But where Indiana is right now is exactly what's wrong with NIL in general, and "paying players" specifically. Because Woodson was either unable or unwilling to recruit HS players as has been done since Dr Naismith hung the peach baskets from the balconies. So now he's scrambling to "buy" a team, and no clue how that will turn out, as it's still pretty early in the cycle. And there's the caveat that it will be a "new" team, and Woodson will be the coach to somehow make it all work. It just creates a whole new excuse if this fails, and if it somehow succeeds, then it will very well become his M.O. going forward.

Personally, buying a team of mercenaries kind of turns my stomach. I understand that UCLA started that (with Wooden and Sam Gilbert), and the Kentuckys, Dukes, Kansases and North Carolinas have never looked back. One could argue that at least it's a fairly level playing field, but it truly does just feel wrong.

Depends what can you’re talking about. The can that is the current NCAA landscape was blown open long ago so no comment by me or anyone else here opens that further. If we’re talking about our fans opinion of NIL, yes, 100%, crack it open. I doubt you’ll get much disagreement on anything you said, including from me. It’s well said. But the most important thing you said is “we have to play if we want any chance.” If you read your full post, I think you do a pretty good job on the argument of why we have to do it. Basically…it kinda stinks, but it’s also been happening forever and now it’s legal and in the open. So, let’s play the damn game as best we can. I’ll go back to my previous comment…if it only makes us competitive, Woody is still toast. But let’s at least play the game to try to be competitive, or even better than that. Worst case scenario we prove to the next coach that we’re serious about NIL. 

[go iu bb 5,566]

16 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

So, do you really want to open than can of worms? :D

I don't think this is what the NCAA had in mind when they dreamed up the NIL thing. That said, we have to play if we want any chance of being competitive. But where Indiana is right now is exactly what's wrong with NIL in general, and "paying players" specifically. Because Woodson was either unable or unwilling to recruit HS players as has been done since Dr Naismith hung the peach baskets from the balconies. So now he's scrambling to "buy" a team, and no clue how that will turn out, as it's still pretty early in the cycle. And there's the caveat that it will be a "new" team, and Woodson will be the coach to somehow make it all work. It just creates a whole new excuse if this fails, and if it somehow succeeds, then it will very well become his M.O. going forward.

Personally, buying a team of mercenaries kind of turns my stomach. I understand that UCLA started that (with Wooden and Sam Gilbert), and the Kentuckys, Dukes, Kansases and North Carolinas have never looked back. One could argue that at least it's a fairly level playing field, but it truly does just feel wrong.

The "NIL thing" isn't something that the NCAA dreamed up. It was forced on them by trying to hold on to the "amateur" model too long and hard then losing in court. They didn't have a choice and have been powerless to stop it. If they had had to foresight to actually dream it up, it might not have gotten to what it has.

[AZ Hoosier 6,577]

4 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Depends what can you’re talking about. The can that is the current NCAA landscape was blown open long ago so no comment by me or anyone else here opens that further. If we’re talking about our fans opinion of NIL, yes, 100%, crack it open. I doubt you’ll get much disagreement on anything you said, including from me. It’s well said. But the most important thing you said is “we have to play if we want any chance.” If you read your full post, I think you do a pretty good job on the argument of why we have to do it. Basically…it kinda stinks, but it’s also been happening forever and now it’s legal and in the open. So, let’s play the damn game as best we can. I’ll go back to my previous comment…if it only makes us competitive, Woody is still toast. But let’s at least play the game to try to be competitive, or even better than that. Worst case scenario we prove to the next coach that we’re serious about NIL. 

I can't disagree with anything you said.

[DChoosier 7,992]

27 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

That backcourt limitation was fully and squarely on the architect of that roster - one Michael Dean Woodson. He left an open scholarship and a dearth of serviceable personnel at the guard position. You can't give him credit for the all-star front court and excuse the crappy backcourt. It's his job. He claimed that he did his job, but the proof in in the playing.

???????
I’ll give you an A+ for twisting my post. I’m guessing you didn’t read my second sentence of the post which was……

“Woody didn’t get guards which turned out to be catastrophic”

In no way, shape or form was I excusing the backcourt but rather said Woody did not get guards.

[NashvilleHoosier 3,688]

24 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

I can't disagree with anything you said.

Thank you for this. There may be no greater victory in 2024 than posting something on the internet and getting a response of “I can’t disagree with anything you said.” ;-)

[Trish 11,506]

It’s night and day basketball watching Alabama basketball vs Indiana basketball. 
 

 

[Bankshot 528]

6 hours ago, Hoosier DaDa said:

I feel like this thread needs a T-Shirt..  My idea is below but if someone out there can create a better one let see them.  Whoever comes up with the best one we can sell them and the profits can go to a slush fund to FIRE MIKE WOODSON! 

 

Was it back in the Crean era maybe that there was a saying or some shirts that said something like: “Welcome to Bloomington, a drinking town with a basketball problem”.

Seems like it may be relevant again, or still.