Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[TheWatShot 14,290]

2 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

 

Look at what IU did to Archie, Crean etc. it killed their career trajectory. You can say they suck as coaches but very strong possibility they are both coaching a P6 job and doing just fine if they didn’t come to IU. 

Crean had a #1 draft pick playing for him at Georgia and neither one of them had/have any pressure to win now. They just suck. 

[JSHoosier 20,498]

4 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Uh, he isn’t - that isn’t my mind made up either. I still believe that to be 100% fact no matter how Chris may feel things are going and that is in no way a shot against him. That isn’t just me making things up either based on my feelings.

plot twist - I would be 100% on board with Pearl this year and pushing Woody out. So no, I can have my opinion changed when new facts are presented. I don’t see most other options and for sure not May as a reason to move on.

I have never been of the belief we could pull a guy like Pearl and only think we maybe can if Pearl has a person reason for it. He is also at an age that he wouldn’t have to worry about the next job or career.  All the money in the world doesn’t solve the reality for top coaches who make great money at schools with as much or MORE resources than IU.  Fans have to start being real about this situation.

Look at what IU did to Archie, Crean etc. it killed their career trajectory. You can say they suck as coaches but very strong possibility they are both coaching a P6 job and doing just fine if they didn’t come to IU. There is also the huge ego hit. Why take the risk? Pearl may be the one guy who it makes sense for. He has loved the program forever and to be THE guy who finally got IU back would be huge for him and isn’t about money. If he fails too (doubtful) who cares in his mind. He has plenty of money and retiring soon anyway. 

Darn IU program, made Crean perform so poorly he got fired from a place that cares more about football recruiting than basketball.

[Tom White 1,435]

1 hour ago, Ngw7183 said:

Yeah, why don’t we all put our so names and addresses on here as well.

Actually, I do post under my real name. If you want to know where I'm from, or my history, just look at my profile.

Now, it's your turn. Put up or shut up time.

[Hoosier DaDa 2,798]

39 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Or it is a young team by minutes played and most young teams are “soft” - yes, again, he created this roster.  

It is also just one of many things man. X goes down twice, Ware missing big games as well, fans booing them (that does matter), fans attacking players directly with their anger for losses (lots of that this year), etc.  You can tell guys to ignore that like Woody said he coaches them to do but in reality it is hard. Then you get parents involved too. It has been rough and needing that leader on the court really matters.

I don’t know how to say this without being called a narcissist haha but usually guys who say teams who struggle to overcome as being soft haven’t been in those situations themselves and understand 

Only a narcissist would laugh at being called a narcissist. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,974]

15 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Uh, he isn’t - that isn’t my mind made up either. I still believe that to be 100% fact no matter how Chris may feel things are going and that is in no way a shot against him. That isn’t just me making things up either based on my feelings.

plot twist - I would be 100% on board with Pearl this year and pushing Woody out. So no, I can have my opinion changed when new facts are presented. I don’t see most other options and for sure not May as a reason to move on.

I have never been of the belief we could pull a guy like Pearl and only think we maybe can if Pearl has a person reason for it. He is also at an age that he wouldn’t have to worry about the next job or career.  All the money in the world doesn’t solve the reality for top coaches who make great money at schools with as much or MORE resources than IU.  Fans have to start being real about this situation.

Look at what IU did to Archie, Crean etc. it killed their career trajectory. You can say they suck as coaches but very strong possibility they are both coaching a P6 job and doing just fine if they didn’t come to IU. There is also the huge ego hit. Why take the risk? Pearl may be the one guy who it makes sense for. He has loved the program forever and to be THE guy who finally got IU back would be huge for him and isn’t about money. If he fails too (doubtful) who cares in his mind. He has plenty of money and retiring soon anyway. 

How did it kill Crean’s career trajectory? He took a year off and then got a job at a school in a better basketball conference. It’s not IU’s fault that he only won 38.5% of his games there. 

[Golfman25 5,774]

18 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

It isn’t about being mad at him man. Way more to it. 

What's he doing, banging his wife?   :)  

[Home Jersey 8,745]

6 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

You are both right, that many wouldn’t have and even if we did take Jay Wright, he would have been fired before he had a chance to become Jay Wright. 

So, are we all in agreement that the majority of the fanbase will allow Dusty to learn on the job. Take many years to become a what this fanbase wants? Which is way better than what Crean was? I can’t see that at all. So you are banking on Dusty being the man from day one. No down years in year 3/4 or 5.

The option for a guy like Dusty was when we hired Archie. Now 2 coaches later, either the expectations with fans have to reset or… we can’t hire him.

Last year was Dusty's 5th year at FAU and he took them to the final four... FAU. 

Sure, he may not turn things around instantly. People are still gonna have more patience for May than Woody, yes. 

Woody is nearing retirement and has no recruiting momentum. That right there has his tenure dead in the water. It would be different if we had more guys signed. Relying on the portal to build an entire team is partly where people are so frustrated. How can we be optimistic about a team that doesn't exist yet where 6-9 guys who don't even know it right now will be playing for us? 

With that much roster turnover, it won't be totally dissimilar to the environment Crean (yes the context is massively different). Between his current team that he can take with him, his ties with the state, and track record building FAU... I am comfortable with that risk vs. this known quantity.

I do think most fans would be on board with the idea of giving Dusty May at LEAST 4 seasons, to answer your Q.

[JF87 1,535]

Getting a "proven" guy that's currently working at another P6 school is rare. I'm counting the Big East as the 6th conference.  Looking at the current top 50 in Kenpom, there are only 5 coaches that meet this scenario where they took a P6 job when they were currently employed by a P6 school.

1. Brad Underwood-  Oklahoma State to Illinois
2. Shaka Smart-  Texas to Marquette
3. Bill Self-  Illinois to Kansas
4. Jamie Dixon- Pitt to TCU
5. Kevin Willard-  Seton Hall to Maryland  

Underwood, Self, and Willard were obvious upgrades.  Smart left Texas before the posse caught him.  Dixon made a lateral move to his alma mater.  The other top 45 teams in Kenpom either hired an unemployed coach, promoted from within, or hired a mid-major coach.  To think that Bruce Pearl wants to leave a superior Auburn program to rebuild IU is a pipe dream, especially at the age of 64.  He and his agent are using IU for leverage.  Look, I would love Oats, but unless he's terribly unhappy at Alabama there's very little reason for him to move jobs.  TJ Otzelberger is an up-and-coming P6 coach at Iowa State.  He's never won the Big 12 or Big 12 Tournament, but he's made the NCAA Tournament.  Is that "proven"?  Would Otzelberger even consider the IU job as an upgrade?  An up-and-coming mid-major coach may be our only option.  

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,425]

43 minutes ago, Ghost of Rick Majerus said:

Exactly!

"Dusty May isn't proven."

Seriously guys? Dusty May took FAU to the Final Four. He built that program from the ground up. How could you possibly prove yourself anymore? What else would it take? If you hesitate on him, you run the risk of him going to Ohio State or Michigan and steamrolling us year after year. 

We have 4 Tournament appearances in the last 10 years. We have advanced past the sweet sixteen once in the past 30 years. ONCE! We have a clueless coach leading our program in the wrong direction. We have been in the bottom half of the big ten for most of the last 10 years. if anything, our program has become the "unproven" party when looking for a new coach. Thankfully, we have an absolutely rabid fanbase that few programs can rival.

 

yeah, I am tired of reading "isn't proven" 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,425]

Just now, JF87 said:

Getting a "proven" guy that's currently working at another P6 school is rare. I'm counting the Big East as the 6th conference.  Looking at the current top 50 in Kenpom, there are only 5 coaches that meet this scenario where they took a P6 job when they were currently employed by a P6 school.

1. Brad Underwood-  Oklahoma State to Illinois
2. Shaka Smart-  Texas to Marquette
3. Bill Self-  Illinois to Kansas
4. Jamie Dixon- Pitt to TCU
5. Kevin Willard-  Seton Hall to Maryland  

Underwood, Self, and Willard were obvious upgrades.  Smart left Texas before the posse caught him.  Dixon made a lateral move to his alma mater.  The other top 45 teams in Kenpom either hired an unemployed coach, promoted from within, or hired a mid-major coach.  To think that Bruce Pearl wants to leave a superior Auburn program to rebuild IU is a pipe dream, especially at the age of 64.  He and his agent are using IU for leverage.  Look, I would love Oats, but unless he's terribly unhappy at Alabama there's very little reason for him to move jobs.  TJ Otzelberger is an up-and-coming P6 coach at Iowa State.  He's never won the Big 12 or Big 12 Tournament, but he's made the NCAA Tournament.  Is that "proven"?  Would Otzelberger even consider the IU job as an upgrade?  An up-and-coming mid-major coach may be our only option.  

We should have hired Bill Self from ILL. Idc he allegedly cheated, could not care less. Best coach in the game. 

[Artie86 2,087]

Just now, Hoosierfan2017 said:

How did it kill Crean’s career trajectory? He took a year off and then got a job at a school in a better basketball conference. It’s not IU’s fault that he only won 38.5% of his games there. 

....I respectfully disagree with you on this....... It really depends on the year, between the BIGTEN and SEC, which conference is better. I personally feel the BIGTEN is more of a basketball conference and the SEC is more of a football conference. JMO

I suppose this, also depends on year to year....lol

[Golfman25 5,774]

22 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

 

Look at what IU did to Archie, Crean etc. it killed their career trajectory. You can say they suck as coaches but very strong possibility they are both coaching a P6 job and doing just fine if they didn’t come to IU. There is also the huge ego hit. Why take the risk? Pearl may be the one guy who it makes sense for. He has loved the program forever and to be THE guy who finally got IU back would be huge for him and isn’t about money. If he fails too (doubtful) who cares in his mind. He has plenty of money and retiring soon anyway. 

Come on man.  Take some accountability.  IU didn't do squat to Crean/Archie except make them rich men.  They just don't have what it takes to coach at a high level.  Look at Sampson -- IU was a blip on his radar (SOB).  

[Hoosier DaDa 2,798]

24 minutes ago, Ghost of Rick Majerus said:

Don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled with Pearl as well. I just think Dusty will be something special (i.e. Jay Wright (Hofstra), Thad Matta(Butler), Nate Oats (Buffalo)). 

Bob Knight Army special??

[Golfman25 5,774]

16 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

See, we agree here. I would probably say 3/4 wins but one of those is Kansas AND those blowouts are much less. So, in turn, we are bubble or in tourney and whole situation is way different.

again, multiple things can be true. 

now, the whole, should be tending up by year 3, yeah, probably but they did lose a ton. In hindsight, should Woody not have worked so hard to keep TJD, Race etc around and hit reset early? Makes you wonder. 

No.  In hindsight Woody should have worked to bring the guys back like he did.  But then he should have put a plan in place to build the roster in 2023/24/25 and 26.  He apparently had to be told to go watch HS players.  WTF, that's like telling my kid to use soap when he showers.  

[Chris007 46,008]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

We should have hired Bill Self from ILL. Idc he allegedly cheated, could not care less. Best coach in the game. 

But Mark Pope took him to the woodshed last night. I'm just kidding.

But what I don't understand is why BYU shoots all those 3's. Is that allowed? How is that not illegal? Shouldn't they have to force it into the post while being double-teamed? 

[IndyHoops 461]

19 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

See, we agree here. I would probably say 3/4 wins but one of those is Kansas AND those blowouts are much less. So, in turn, we are bubble or in tourney and whole situation is way different.

again, multiple things can be true. 

now, the whole, should be tending up by year 3, yeah, probably but they did lose a ton. In hindsight, should Woody not have worked so hard to keep TJD, Race etc around and hit reset early? Makes you wonder. 

So, what’s the plan for point guard next year?

[Chris007 46,008]

Just now, IndyHoops said:

So, what’s the plan for point guard next year?

Print out a list of guards 6'4 or taller and throw darts at them. Whoever we hit we go after

[IndyHoops 461]

5 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Come on man.  Take some accountability.  IU didn't do squat to Crean/Archie except make them rich men.  They just don't have what it takes to coach at a high level.  Look at Sampson -- IU was a blip on his radar (SOB).  

Mike Davis had a pretty nice run at UAB and Detroit after IU as well…

[JSHoosier 20,498]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

But Mark Pope took him to the woodshed last night. I'm just kidding.

But what I don't understand is why BYU shoots all those 3's. Is that allowed? How is that not illegal? Shouldn't they have to force it into the post while being double-teamed? 

Just wait, Woodson is going to revolutionize the game.....1 out 4 in offense.

[IUrocker 2,274]

Just have Ware come back to be the point guard. If Woody is back he’ll just have a handful of other big guys that can take Ware’s place down low.