COMPLAIN HERE!

[TheWatShot 13,473]

Why can't people just GET IN LINE for the concession stand, instead of just standing in a large group talking amongst themselves? 

[AKHoosier 6,654]

3 hours ago, Trish said:

This program is so stale. Scott Dolson completely missed on this hire and it was so easily predictable. 
 

 

Hated it from the beginning. 

Wanted to be proven wrong, but it doesn't feel like I have been. 

Even after 3 years, I still can't believe we hired Mike Woodson. 

 

[Brass Cannon 24,087]

11 minutes ago, AKHoosier said:

Hated it from the beginning. 

Wanted to be proven wrong, but it doesn't feel like I have been. 

Even after 3 years, I still can't believe we hired Mike Woodson. 

 

Very rarely is a former player also the best candidate for the job. Which I know is strange considering what Michigan just did but it really is quite rare 

[Bankshot 528]

3 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

This hire was Quinn Buckner's hire and he's the one to blame.  It wasn't Dolson's choice.  FWIW, Buckner's term on the BOT expires in the summer of 2025.  He'll be 70, but I have no idea if there's any age limit and he'll have to step down.

IMO, the fact that it was more Buckner’s decision or influence than the AD’s is a root cause  problem at an upper university level.

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

5 minutes ago, Bankshot said:

IMO, the fact that it was more Buckner’s decision or influence than the AD’s is a root cause  problem at an upper university level.

We didn’t have a president of the university when Harry Gonso and shoulders and whoever else hired glass, missed what 8 of 12 tournaments, he gets fired along with the president… we again don’t have a president when the AD is hired. I’m sure Gonso and Buckner and shoulders and whoever else still holds influence and upgraded Glass’ guy vs doing a national search 

[RaceToTheTop 24,524]

15 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Saturday morning complaints:

Refs that spend more time worrying about shirt tails not being tucked in than they do on actual officiating.

THANK YOU.

Or how about refs not allowing a player to wear a compression shirt under their team jersey unless they have a documented medical reason to do so?  The IHSAA is such a joke a joke with these sorts of things.

[AKHoosier 6,654]

10 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Very rarely is a former player also the best candidate for the job. Which I know is strange considering what Michigan just did but it really is quite rare 

Yep, and I would argue that it almost never works out.

Clyde Drexler, Patrick Ewing, Lavell Jordan, Chris Mullins, Kenny Payne, and Juwan Howard are quick examples of it not working out. Many more are out there.

I'm sure there are plenty of cases where it does work out, but it just goes to show that being an alum of a university doesn't mean a candidate will have a greater chance of success.

[Five Prime 1,076]

I love seeing Houston's continued success remembering we once fired their coach.  

[Home Jersey 5,736]

2 minutes ago, Five Prime said:

I love seeing Houston's continued success remembering we once fired their coach.  

That was before I was seriously following the program as closely as I do now. And it was definitely overreaction at the time too.

But man, especially with the benefit of hindsight... that certainly seems to be where things went off the rails for the program. Sure, Mike Davis wasn't a great hire (but you could see why the decision was made). Sampson was a home run, but apparently decision makers were looking for an excuse - either to get rid of Sampson individually or more generally to de-prioritize basketball. And we basically have never been the same since all over stuff that would probably be perfectly legal today. Hard to feel like that's not been the case of the past 20+ years. Hard to have a lot of confidence in the administration's ability to get it right next time around, when it comes. Circumstances are different now... as a fan I try to find reasons to be hopeful, but that's about all that I've got at the moment.

[Five Prime 1,076]

29 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

That was before I was seriously following the program as closely as I do now. And it was definitely overreaction at the time too.

But man, especially with the benefit of hindsight... that certainly seems to be where things went off the rails for the program. Sure, Mike Davis wasn't a great hire (but you could see why the decision was made). Sampson was a home run, but apparently decision makers were looking for an excuse - either to get rid of Sampson individually or more generally to de-prioritize basketball. And we basically have never been the same since all over stuff that would probably be perfectly legal today. Hard to feel like that's not been the case of the past 20+ years. Hard to have a lot of confidence in the administration's ability to get it right next time around, when it comes. Circumstances are different now... as a fan I try to find reasons to be hopeful, but that's about all that I've got at the moment.

Spot on.  I remember the narrative very well.  I followed the program closely at the time, was a bigger fan then than I am now.  More astute fans may have seen it as a harbinger of things to come, and in hindsight it certainly feels that way.  

[Dave from Dayton 2,760]

46 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

That was before I was seriously following the program as closely as I do now. And it was definitely overreaction at the time too.

But man, especially with the benefit of hindsight... that certainly seems to be where things went off the rails for the program. Sure, Mike Davis wasn't a great hire (but you could see why the decision was made). Sampson was a home run, but apparently decision makers were looking for an excuse - either to get rid of Sampson individually or more generally to de-prioritize basketball. And we basically have never been the same since all over stuff that would probably be perfectly legal today. Hard to feel like that's not been the case of the past 20+ years. Hard to have a lot of confidence in the administration's ability to get it right next time around, when it comes. Circumstances are different now... as a fan I try to find reasons to be hopeful, but that's about all that I've got at the moment.

Nope.

Things went off the rails long before Coach Sampson was gone.

Coach Knight was allowed to go off the rails.  The world of sports was changing rapidly.  Those that said that basketball at IU was getting too big for it's britches railed against Bob Knight.  They used his unwillingness to be politically correct to oust him.  Part of that was the Administration at the top was envious of sports being placed above Education at IU in their perspective. It also must be mentioned that RMK's success rate had dropped off...maybe because he wasn't personnally recruiting as much.   They set RMK up to break the order from HQ.  And he did.

Mike Davis was a mistake.  He just did not have the experience to be HC.  Coach Sampson was also a mistake.  Either he should not have been hired because of his probation and violation of rules.  Or he should have been very closely monitored to assure that the violations were not repeated.  IU failed on one or both of those points relative to the Coach Sampson issues.  

There is also an undercurrent of possible bigotry or jealousy here.  Mike Davis, Sampson and Woodson all are minorities.  Lots of the players are too.  When some fans are crying for recruiting in Indiana first and to get 'high IQ' players vs athletes...does that mean something underneath?  Why all the saber rattling about all of the previous coaches being ousted?  I'm as guilty getting on one band wagon with a neat gimmicky idea.  But there are a lot of nuances that I do not have a complete grasp of here.  

The rest is history.  Without a guarantee, and without a doubt, coach hires are all leaps of faith.  The Administration tries to reduce unknowns and risks...some of the time.  Or should.

My vote on Coach Woodson is not solid one way or another.  Without a platoon of great guards and shooters and/or the development of them, this season is on the stink...somewhat. Is that due to a mistake in recruiting?  Yes.  Is that a fireable mistake.  Yes.  But should IU fire Coach Woodson for a mistake and then have to try to get a new coach and staff and team in place?  I am definitely not ready to pull the plug on all of that.  Churning through coaches is not a great strategy.  Cutting and starting over is an option.  I have no doubt that part of the reason Coach Woodson was hired is that he appeared to satisfy many of the issues related herein.  But, can he turn this season around.  Can he take IU basketball all the way up to be competitive near the top each and every year?

  The season is not over.  

Surprise, Coach Woody shortened the bench against Illinois.  Surprise, the team played defense and were in the game until Reneau fouled out.  When will IU average better than 70% at the free throw line?  When will IU hit more than a few 3's at a rate above 35%?  When will the IU team captain that has 6 years of experience keep his cool the whole game?   

Tuesday?  Next week?  Next season?  Next coach, staff, and team?  

[AZ Hoosier 6,259]

5 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

Nope.

Things went off the rails long before Coach Sampson was gone.

Coach Knight was allowed to go off the rails.  The world of sports was changing rapidly.  Those that said that basketball at IU was getting too big for it's britches railed against Bob Knight.  They used his unwillingness to be politically correct to oust him.  Part of that was the Administration at the top was envious of sports being placed above Education at IU in their perspective. It also must be mentioned that RMK's success rate had dropped off...maybe because he wasn't personnally recruiting as much.   They set RMK up to break the order from HQ.  And he did.

That process was orchestrated by Myles Brand with a major assist from Murray Sperber .

[Five Prime 1,076]

7 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

Nope.

Things went off the rails long before Coach Sampson was gone.

Coach Knight was allowed to go off the rails.  The world of sports was changing rapidly.  Those that said that basketball at IU was getting too big for it's britches railed against Bob Knight.  They used his unwillingness to be politically correct to oust him.  Part of that was the Administration at the top was envious of sports being placed above Education at IU in their perspective. It also must be mentioned that RMK's success rate had dropped off...maybe because he wasn't personnally recruiting as much.   They set RMK up to break the order from HQ.  And he did.

Mike Davis was a mistake.  He just did not have the experience to be HC.  Coach Sampson was also a mistake.  Either he should not have been hired because of his probation and violation of rules.  Or he should have been very closely monitored to assure that the violations were not repeated.  IU failed on one or both of those points relative to the Coach Sampson issues.  

The rest is history.  Without a guarantee, and without a doubt, coach hires are all leaps of faith.  The Administration tries to reduce unknowns and risks...some of the time.  Or should.

My vote on Coach Woodson is not solid one way or another.  Without a platoon of great guards and shooters and/or the development of them, this season is on the stink...somewhat. Is that due to a mistake in recruiting?  Yes.  Is that a fireable mistake.  Yes.  But should IU fire Coach Woodson for a mistake and then have to try to get a new coach and staff and team in place?  I am definitely not ready to pull the plug on all of that.  Churning through coaches is not a great strategy.  Cutting and starting over is an option.

  The season is not over.  

Surprise, Coach Woody shortened the bench against Illinois.  Surprise, the team played defense and were in the game until Reneau fouled out.  When will IU average better than 70% at the free throw line?  When will IU hit more than a few 3's at a rate above 35%?  When will the IU team captain that has 6 years of experience keep his cool the whole game? 

Tuesday?  Next week?  Next season?  Next coach, staff, and team?  

This is another perspective with some merit.  RMK certainly became the face of the university.  The decisions made behind closed doors to "correct" it have long been discussed.  Davis was fine, the guy after The Guy is not an enviable position.  But the decision to fire Sampson was a choice, nobody forced IUs hand.  It further escalated the program's self destruction.  So for me, that was the harbinger.  Everything before then was both understandable and amendable, to some extent.  

[Five Prime 1,076]

Let me put it this way...

What is the one thing you would change about IU basketball in the last 30 years?

For me it's firing Sampson.

[RaceToTheTop 24,524]

8 minutes ago, Five Prime said:

Let me put it this way...

What is the one thing you would change about IU basketball in the last 30 years?

For me it's firing Sampson.

I'd go with hiring Sampson in the first place.  IU wasn't going to keep Sampson on board if he violated NCAA rules. Doesn't matter if you consider it minor or if it's legal now.

After Davis was fired, the job was still very, very attractive.  IU could have gotten a Sampson type of coach with the risks that accompanied.  After Sampson was fired, the job has been going downhill on attractiveness.

If you think that firing Sampson was the worst thing that IU did in the last thirty years, then you are willfully ignoring that the NCAA issued a show cause on Sampson for five years.  It's not like he immediately went from IU to Houston and turned them into a contender.....he was never given that option.  If IU hadn't fired him, then that five year show cause they issued would have turned into all kind of recruiting sanctions for that period of time.

[Hoosier987 1,037]

18 minutes ago, Five Prime said:

Let me put it this way...

What is the one thing you would change about IU basketball in the last 30 years?

For me it's firing Sampson.

Definitely a fork in the road there for the program. We probably have at least 1 maybe more Titles with Sampson…but we’ll never know, will we? People forget we told on ourselves. It was not the NCAA. 99.9% (we being the 0.01) of the other programs continue on their merry way with nobody ever hearing a word about it. Partly because many were doing far worse, you know, like hiring prostitutes, coordinating fake classes, paying players etc..sure, there were things Sampson needed to have cleaned up personnel wise, but that could’ve been a pretty benign and easy task to do.

I recently listened to a podcast Gordon had with AJ Guyton on the Field of 68. It’s a good listen. Mentions he still doesn’t understand why the University had to act during the middle of the season. At least wait till the season plays out as they had aspirations to win the Title and then go from there. 
 

The moment we self-reported was the moment the trajectory changed drastically. 

[Five Prime 1,076]

Self righteous Fandom is pretty funny in a time of pay to play, NIL, unlimited transfers, fake classes (no classes?), one and done, FBI investigations, etc, etc, etc.  There is one rule in college sports right now whether we like it or not - winning.  

[Five Prime 1,076]

10 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I'd go with hiring Sampson in the first place.  IU wasn't going to keep Sampson on board if he violated NCAA rules. Doesn't matter if you consider it minor or if it's legal now.

After Davis was fired, the job was still very, very attractive.  IU could have gotten a Sampson type of coach with the risks that accompanied.  After Sampson was fired, the job has been going downhill on attractiveness.

If you think that firing Sampson was the worst thing that IU did in the last thirty years, then you are willfully ignoring that the NCAA issued a show cause on Sampson for five years.  It's not like he immediately went from IU to Houston and turned them into a contender.....he was never given that option.  If IU hadn't fired him, then that five year show cause they issued would have turned into all kind of recruiting sanctions for that period of time.

Ironically, Indiana fell into a hire that may have put them at the forefront of a lot of the "under the table" stuff that is now widely acceptable.  A la Saban at Bama.  Coincidence he retired shortly after NIL and free transfers?

[Dave from Dayton 2,760]

IU shot itself in the foot multiple times with Sampson.  

1. Hiring a coach on probation is questionable to say the least.

2. Then not accepting the challenge of monitoring and controlling Sampson at the time of signing the contract and for his coaching time at IU is worse.  Holy Crappola.  

3.  It was inevitable that scores of impermissible phone calls would leak.  Someone involved would hear something and then it was in the phone records.  Rumors of pot smoking and skipping classes and failing grades and etc......

4.  In my opinion, it was to put a cloud over the program or to bite the bullet.  Neither was the choice of champions.

5.  Once that happened.  Oh yeah.  Dan D. is such a treat.  He could not recruit at BGSU because of over supervision and mental abuse...in my opinion.  He got rid of most of the players.  Controversy, yes.  Right decision?  I have my opinion, but that does not matter.

6.  Tom Crean was on the outs up at Marquette.  He could not sustain recruiting without Dwayne Wade.  He did the bait and switch on some recruits and oversold every. darn. thing.   He did not know an X from an O.  He was quirky.  And never would be consistent.  But we hired him anyway.

7.  That is what happens when you churn through coaches.  What recruit would think that the new coach will be around forever?  Got to pay lots more money to get the best...a tried-and-true coach.  At IU? Lol.

[HoosierTrav 7,635]

9 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

IU shot itself in the foot multiple times with Sampson.  

1. Hiring a coach on probation is questionable to say the least.

2. Then not accepting the challenge of monitoring and controlling Sampson at the time of signing the contract and for his coaching time at IU is worse.  Holy Crappola.  

3.  It was inevitable that scores of impermissible phone calls would leak.  Someone involved would hear something and then it was in the phone records.  Rumors of pot smoking and skipping classes and failing grades and etc......

4.  In my opinion, it was to put a cloud over the program or to bite the bullet.  Neither was the choice of champions.

5.  Once that happened.  Oh yeah.  Dan D. is such a treat.  He could not recruit at BGSU because of over supervision and mental abuse...in my opinion.  He got rid of most of the players.  Controversy, yes.  Right decision?  I have my opinion, but that does not matter.

6.  Tom Crean was on the outs up at Marquette.  He could not sustain recruiting without Dwayne Wade.  He did the bait and switch on some recruits and oversold every. darn. thing.   He did not know an X from an O.  He was quirky.  And never would be consistent.  But we hired him anyway.

7.  That is what happens when you churn through coaches.  What recruit would think that the new coach will be around forever?  Got to pay lots more money to get the best...a tried-and-true coach.  At IU? Lol.

Agree with most of this. Especially the very last question. I firmly believe no high profile, proven winning coach would want anything to do with this program. I’ve been delusional about that for awhile. Our only hope is that we can identify and hire a capable up and comer. Do I believe we have the people capable of that? NOT.A.CHANCE. 
 

I think we can put a fork in IU basketball for the foreseeable future. 
 

Prove me wrong IUBB!!!