IUBB vs #2 Kansas - Saturday, 12.16.23 @ 12:30 on CBS

[BGleas]

10 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Woody doesn’t sign his paycheck and he surely isn’t going to fire himself. It’s the administration and donor class’s expectations that lead.  As fans we always want to believe the coach’s “rah rah” press conference speeches, but they don’t reflect reality. In reality, if we make the tourney again, Woody will be congratulated by most on turning the ship and heading in the right direction. 
 

KU,* UNC, UK…?  Yea, they’ll bounce you at the first sign of weakness. IU likes to give people time to improve or something.   
 

 

*I’m just guessing with KU since they are extremely good at hiring coaches. 

Let's give Woodson some credit though. He's been in the coaching game for 40 years at the highest level. He was a head coach in the largest media market in the world. 

He's plenty PR savvy. He knows what happens when you say publicly that your expectations are Big Ten and National Titles. 

There's other ways to convey confidence and belief in your program than publicly saying that. Mike Woodson has been around long enough to know that. 

[Hornsby]

Tamar Bates with 11 points late in the 1st half for Mizzou.  lol

He is better than gunn.

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[cthomas]

6 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

He is better than gunn.

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk
 

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think anyone was happy with his play last year. And, if I remember correctly, his asking price to stay was unreasonable given how he had played. Getting and / or keeping guys these days have so many moving parts that I don't envy anyone trying to build a roster.

[Golfman25]

20 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Woody doesn’t sign his paycheck and he surely isn’t going to fire himself. It’s the administration and donor class’s expectations that lead.  As fans we always want to believe the coach’s “rah rah” press conference speeches, but they don’t reflect reality. In reality, if we make the tourney again, Woody will be congratulated by most on turning the ship and heading in the right direction. 
 

KU,* UNC, UK…?  Yea, they’ll bounce you at the first sign of weakness. IU likes to give people time to improve or something.   
 

 

*I’m just guessing with KU since they are extremely good at hiring coaches. 

The difference is those programs have been able to maintain a level of consistency between hires.  None of them ever had to play baseball players to field a team.  You can’t underestimate how those broken years destroyed the program.  IU basket essentially became irrelevant.  It wasn’t the place to play.  We got lucky landing Zeller and those few teams, but then it wasn’t sustainable.  We need sustainable success to work our way back.  

[Scotty R]

53 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Prettt sure Mike Woodson said his expectations are Big Ten and National titles, and he said that under the backdrop of admitting he didn't have a lot of time to get there. 

He did and it takes time to get to that level. It took coach K over 4 years to just become a tournament team and took him 9 years to win his first championship

[Rico]

11 minutes ago, cthomas said:

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think anyone was happy with his play last year. And, if I remember correctly, his asking price to stay was unreasonable given how he had played. Getting and / or keeping guys these days have so many moving parts that I don't envy anyone trying to build a roster.

Bates with 15 now early in the 2nd half.  Bates is way better than Gunn.

[Rico]

1 minute ago, Scotty R said:

He did and it takes time to get to that level. It took coach K over 4 years to just become a tournament team and took him 9 years to win his first championship

BS on the Duke puke.  K didn't take over a train wreck.

[BGleas]

Just now, Scotty R said:

He did and it takes time to get to that level. It took coach K over 4 years to just become a tournament team and took him 9 years to win his first championship

That's why I put the second part of my sentence in there. Woodson is the one that said he had to get there quick. 

Also, let's be real here, college basketball is almost a completely different sport today than when Coach K took over at Duke. 

There's really no comparing those situations. 

Just to be clear though, I'm not saying Woodson's expectations are really realistic, but he is the one who set them publicly. 

[Brass Cannon]

Arizona is currently in year 3 of a first time head coach. Granted that program was in a totally different place than IU but he’s had ample amount of time to screw it up if he was going to.  Now granted while he’s a first time head coach I would have rather had his college experience than Woodsons pro experience.  
 

So let’s stop saying it’s only year 3. 

[Rico]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Arizona is currently in year 3 of a first time head coach. Granted that program was in a totally different place than IU but he’s had ample amount of time to screw it up if he was going to.  Now granted while he’s a first time head coach I would have rather had his college experience than Woodsons pro experience.  
 

So let’s stop saying it’s only year 3. 

Didn't RMK take the Hoosiers to a FF in year 3?

[Scotty R]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

That's why I put the second part of my sentence in there. Woodson is the one that said he had to get there quick. 

Also, let's be real here, college basketball is almost a completely different sport today than when Coach K took over at Duke. 

There's really no comparing those situations. 

Just to be clear though, I'm not saying Woodson's expectations are really realistic, but he is the one who set them publicly. 

Well we finished second last year in the conference and don't care if we were closer to 12th. This year so far we are leading the conference

You have to win in the conference before worrying about making huge tournament runs. 

[cthomas]

4 minutes ago, Rico said:

Bates with 15 now early in the 2nd half.  Bates is way better than Gunn.

Not really my point. The logistics in the NIL era aren't the same as before. It was reported that Bates wanted more $ than his to date performance had justified. I liked Bates and hoped would work out here. It didn't and I don't think the fault is all on the IU side. We are in an era where money is a factor in almost every aspect of recruiting. This going to be a part of roster building every year.

[Rico]

1 minute ago, cthomas said:

Not really my point. The logistics in the NIL era aren't the same as before. It was reported that Bates wanted more $ than his to date performance had justified. I liked Bates and hoped would work out here. It didn't and I don't think the fault is all on the IU side. We are in an era where money is a factor in almost every aspect of recruiting. This going to be a part of roster building every year.

My point is that Bates is better than Gunn.  It was my point the "whole" time.  I get the NIL situation and why he aint here.  

[Scotty R]

Bates this year 7.1pts, 0.9 ast,1.1 rebs.

Bates last year 6.1pts, 1.1ast,  1.4 rebs

[cthomas]

2 minutes ago, Rico said:

My point is that Bates is better than Gunn.  It was my point the "whole" time.  I get the NIL situation and why he aint here.  

Him being better doesn't matter if we couldn't keep him. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just don't see the point in comparing guys we don't have with guys we do. Once again, arguing points is not my thing and I'm happy to let this go. We all want the same thing.

[Uspshoosier]

1 minute ago, Rico said:

My point is that Bates is better than Gunn.  It was my point the "whole" time.  I get the NIL situation and why he aint here.  

I don’t think he is here because him and woody didn’t see eye to eye on things and for whatever reason it just didn’t work out.  I think the NIL thing was blown out of proportion.  Sometimes player and coach don’t work out.    I would argue that Bates not working out is the biggest reason IU guard/wing spot is not where it should be.     Woody brought him in as a freshman to be his starting shooting guard (woodys words after the Sparty game).   Top 30 players in year in year 3 of a program are critical and IU is missing out on his experience.   Even if he has been disappointing for where he was ranked and is still just a roll player you would want that experience and potential for year 3 of college.  However with the portal hanging on to a player or a player roughing it out multiple years is going to be rare.   Not saying he would have solved the problems but I think he could have helped.    I think the staff would of took him back unlike Jordan who I think they kind of wanted to go elsewhere 

[Rico]

4 minutes ago, cthomas said:

Him being better doesn't matter if we couldn't keep him. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just don't see the point in comparing guys we don't have with guys we do. Once again, arguing points is not my thing and I'm happy to let this go. We all want the same thing.

jsmh

[Uspshoosier]

7 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

Bates this year 7.1pts, 0.9 ast,1.1 rebs.

Bates last year 6.1pts, 1.1ast,  1.4 rebs

Open scholly this year 0 pts, 0 ast, 0 rebs 

[Hoosierfan2017]

27 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

He did and it takes time to get to that level. It took coach K over 4 years to just become a tournament team and took him 9 years to win his first championship

Only IU fans think it takes years and years and years to win. Musselman went to the Elite 8 in years 2 and 3, and went to the sweet 16 in year 4. With the transfer portal and NIL you can transform your program overnight. Woodson turns 66 in March. It’s not like he has a whole lot of time to win big. 

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, Uspshoosier said:

Open scholly this year 0 pts, 0 ast, 0 rebs 

Yeah, Bates or not, the biggest issue is that we didn't replace that production whatsoever.