Indiana Vs Kennesaw State 12/23/22 7pm BTN Game Thread

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,109]

Also when the announcer is commenting about how predictable our offense is might be a telling sign.  Woody has been involved with basketball for a full lifetime.  It’s shocking to me with his baskeketball acumen and access to coaching ideas our offense is what it is.  
 

Crean at times used to produce pretty basketball. Archie never did. Woodson’s team only does when we get out in transition which is extraordinarily rare.  A back cut here or there.  Some off ball screens.  Some actual half court sets sometime or another. Heck, even the driving from the guards is mostly nonexistent to get the defense moving.  We look like 5 pillars on offense with a high pick n roll.  Even if our system was a system of let guys make plays and play smart I feel like it might look better.  
 

anyway, Merry Christmas Eve!  Lol. 

[Stuhoo 88,645]

8 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Everything is right besides his perimeter defense. It’s bad. His guys get straight line drives on him whenever he extends.  He doesn’t get blocks or deflections at a rate to makeup.  He’s a smart defender but he’s a deficient defender.  
 

And our teams overhelping defense has been a detriment for 6 years against teams that can actually shoot it. 
 

All that said if the discussion is Banks vs Kopp, I need to see a lot more of Banks to even have an educated guess. Kopp’s offensive threat is one of our only guys that space the floor. And maybe Bates soon.   

Kopp doesn’t have the physical ability to stop drives as well as most of our other perimeter players, but I think he’s about as good as we have at recognizing and closing out on potential perimeter shooters.

[Stuhoo 88,645]

28 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Do you remember what our B1G schedule looks like? 

I wish we had a double play against Minnesota, everybody wishes they had that, but our double plays against Illinois, Michigan, and Iowa are looking better all the time.

[Stuhoo 88,645]

23 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Well considering Banks would be playing the 4, Kopp has no impact. And considering the absolute struggled this team had defending the perimeter, you'd figure an athletic 4 would help for a few minutes. But instead let's keep playing with two big men because it's worked marvelous over the last 5 years. 

Oh. you think that Banks should be taking 15 minutes a game away from Race Thompson?

No thank you.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,263]

12 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Oh. you think that Banks should be taking 15 minutes a game away from Race Thompson?

No thank you.

Yea I would be fine with that every now and then. Because majority of the season Race hasn't gotten it done. Plain and simple. Same for Geronimo. Hell same for Reneau and TJD. Banks opportunity will come obviously, but you can't convince me the other guys have been too good to sit the bench for a few minutes. 

[Hoosier987 2,673]

I think we should be playing 4 perimeter players with TJD down low. However, with X out, will make it more difficult to play like this, simply because we don’t have enough guards. But the 2 big lineup doesn’t seem to be working. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,263]

Just now, Hoosier987 said:

I think we should be playing 4 perimeter players with TJD down low. However, with X out, will make it more difficult to play like this, simply because we don’t have enough guards. But the 2 big lineup doesn’t seem to be working. 

X being put really hurts. I was hoping going into the season we'd see JHS play the 3 some and that never happened.

[Hoosier987 2,673]

Just now, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Yea I would be fine with that every now and then. Because majority of the season Race hasn't gotten it done. Plain and simple. Same for Geronimo. Hell same for Reneau and TJD. Banks opportunity will come obviously, but you can't convince me the other guys have been too good to sit the bench for a few minutes. 

I would agree that there have been disappointments among the players you listed…but I assure you Banks isn’t the answer right now. There’s a reason why he’s the last man on the bench outside of Leal. Race still did grab 14 rebounds yesterday. If Banks plays and takes more of Race’s minutes…I’m not sure we win the game yesterday. 

[pumpfake 4,499]

57 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Miller Kopp shoots it better, defends better, and makes fewer mistakes. For instance, last night in a game where he had little impact, Kopp was the one guy who consistently guarded the perimeter well and had seven points on six shots and zero turnovers in 32 minutes. That’s an excellent “off game.” Kopp is so so so much better this year.

Where am I wrong?

You're correct.  I admit to being often frustrated with his shooting - not inaccuracy but low 3-pt shot attempts.  He's shooting a really good % but sometimes finishes with statlines like last night.  He's our 1 shooter and sometimes has a minimal point contribution.

But, as you describe, he brings solid all-around play at both ends night in and night out - probably our most consistent player.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,263]

19 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I wish we had a double play against Minnesota, everybody wishes they had that, but our double plays against Illinois, Michigan, and Iowa are looking better all the time.

Right... But we also play Illinois, Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue, Iowa all twice. That's half our league games against the top half of the league. And you already know we are losing on the road to Illinois, Michigan, Purdue and Michigan State. Probably lose to Wisconsin. Have to play AT Penn State so that's probably a loss with a poorly we defend the 3. So there are 7 losses. At least. And this team will surely give up a couple more.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,263]

3 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

I would agree that there have been disappointments among the players you listed…but I assure you Banks isn’t the answer right now. There’s a reason why he’s the last man on the bench outside of Leal. Race still did grab 14 rebounds yesterday. If Banks plays and takes more of Race’s minutes…I’m not sure we win the game yesterday. 

I've never said Banks himself is the answer. I think putting an a$$ on the bench for poor play is the answer. 

[Hoosier987 2,673]

17 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I've never said Banks himself is the answer. I think putting an a$$ on the bench for poor play is the answer. 

Ahhh ok. Gotcha. 

[go iu bb 9,188]

11 hours ago, str8baller said:

 

Other than FT shooting,  I can’t imagine what you’ve seen that would make you want to swap out Race for Geronimo. It would be a downgrade in almost every way. 

I'm not convinced JG is even better than Race at FT shooting. While JG is sitting 70% so far this season, I'm not sure he can maintain that rate unless he improved significantly in that one aspect of his game in the off-season (while not improving much in all others). Even including this season, he's only ~54% career FT shooter. Race is ~63% for his career. 

[HoosierHoopster 8,138]

2 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Well considering Banks would be playing the 4, Kopp has no impact. And considering the absolute struggled this team had defending the perimeter, you'd figure an athletic 4 would help for a few minutes. But instead let's keep playing with two big men because it's worked marvelous over the last 5 years. 

I don’t think your idea is that off fwiw. I haven’t seen a level of play from Banks to justify his displacing guys in the regular rotation, and anything we see now is without X which hurts us badly, but the offense is predictable and still limited, not as one dimensional as it was before Kopp and Bates started finding their outside game, and JHS helps create well. I think this and these discussions really come down to bball philosophy and personal risk willingness.
So one of the reasons i’m such a Geronimo backer (and Bates and Gallo) is that he/they bring athleticism, quickness, steals, blocks and with JG and Gallo an ability to guard athletic guys and get out and run. That’s not to say I don’t like Race, his ability to step out has grown, he rebounded like an animal in this game (but against undersized guys) and he’s a savvy player who doesn’t make many mistakes— but we are too limited offensively in the usual lineups and strategy (imo).

So where I think the disconnect is between fans like me who want to see guys like JG or for you Banks getting real run, and guys who respond by pointing out only their limitations (current or perceived) and that well, Woodson sees them in practice so end of discussion — Is I’d rather see certain guys in with the mistakes they’ll make, the still developing defensive awareness or timing, so long as they’re developing and improving on that, for the speed, athleticism, energy and diversity they add to our game, really on both sides of the ball. We saw how limited our usual lineup/ gameplan is against a team like AZ. That’s not to say hey look I’m right, but it’s what I see. People who strongly disagree I think have more of an RMK mindset to the game — no mistakes allowed. RMK’s (who of course is one of the best ever) philosophy included the idea that the team that makes fewer mistakes wins, that was one of his hallmarks. And if a guy made one RMK typically would yank him and chew him out. I liked many things about him, but not that, and in his later years it wasn’t working, our guys would just swing the ball around the perimeter, looking scared to screw up. I don’t want a team’s development - and ability to counter more athletic teams - held back by the idea you can’t play if you are making mistakes. Woodson to me looks to very much have that philosophy and he imposes it harder on some than others (he can’t afford to with JHS for example). That’s also the “trust” level that drives playing time. I want more risk for what i think is higher reward. That comes down to personal philosophy. We have talent that I think needs more run, and would help make us less predictable 

[IU Scott 2,375]

14 hours ago, Bowhunter said:

Rutgers 

Last week they lost at home to Seton Hall 45-43

[IU Scott 2,375]

3 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Also when the announcer is commenting about how predictable our offense is might be a telling sign.  Woody has been involved with basketball for a full lifetime.  It’s shocking to me with his baskeketball acumen and access to coaching ideas our offense is what it is.  
 

Crean at times used to produce pretty basketball. Archie never did. Woodson’s team only does when we get out in transition which is extraordinarily rare.  A back cut here or there.  Some off ball screens.  Some actual half court sets sometime or another. Heck, even the driving from the guards is mostly nonexistent to get the defense moving.  We look like 5 pillars on offense with a high pick n roll.  Even if our system was a system of let guys make plays and play smart I feel like it might look better.  
 

anyway, Merry Christmas Eve!  Lol. 

The offense you described is what I see from 95% of the teams in college basketball 

[IUc2016 7,121]

2 hours ago, pumpfake said:

You're correct.  I admit to being often frustrated with his shooting - not inaccuracy but low 3-pt shot attempts.  He's shooting a really good % but sometimes finishes with statlines like last night.  He's our 1 shooter and sometimes has a minimal point contribution.

But, as you describe, he brings solid all-around play at both ends night in and night out - probably our most consistent player.

I’m hoping we can quit saying that Kopp is our “1 shooter”

Tamar Bates is shooting with a lot of confidence and is able to get off his shot a lot easier than kopp. His defense needs work, but his shooting has been a major plus this non conference season 

 

[IU Scott 2,375]

3 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

I’m hoping we can quit saying that Kopp is our “only shooter”

Tamar Bates is shooting with a lot of confidence and is able to get off his shot a lot easier than kopp. His defense needs work, but his shooting has been a major plus this non conference season 

 

It is funny the perception is that our perimeter shooting is still a huge problem. Also people think Purdue is so much better shooting team but we are shooting 37% to Purdue's 31% from 3

[IUc2016 7,121]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

It is funny the perception is that our perimeter shooting is still a huge problem. Also people think Purdue is so much better shooting team but we are shooting 37% to Purdue's 31% from 3

Yeah our shooting is not the issue. Lack of volume is an issue,  But not %

[J34 1,620]

3 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Everything is right besides his perimeter defense. It’s bad. His guys get straight line drives on him whenever he extends.  He doesn’t get blocks or deflections at a rate to makeup.  He’s a smart defender but he’s a deficient defender.  
 

And our teams overhelping defense has been a detriment for 6 years against teams that can actually shoot it. 
 

All that said if the discussion is Banks vs Kopp, I need to see a lot more of Banks to even have an educated guess. Kopp’s offensive threat is one of our only guys that space the floor. And maybe Bates soon.   

Yes, his guy constantly got around on the drive. Which created an open lane, or an open three, due to having to help.