They Fired Tom Allen!

[craigyv88 384]

3 hours ago, Lebowski said:

Keep in mind, Tom Allen came in and vastly improved the defense to help give you some of those feelings you're talking about. I never felt like IUFB was ever in a game until Allen became the DC. 

Did you enjoy the games when Kalen DeBoer was the OC and Penix was healthy?

You're absolutely right about Allen improving the defense once he got there, which speaks to his strength as a defensive mind and I always give him credit as much.  However he didn't get there until KW's final year in 2016.  Allen improved the team defense ranking from 117th in 2015 to 57th in 2016, but personally I feel the two best all-around teams KW had were 2014-15 which was still Brian Knorr at DC.  I mentioned my thoughts on 2015 and 2014 was also promising until Sudfeld went down.  Heck, even with freshman Zander Diamont who started spring as the 5th string QB in 2014 that team still found ways to move the ball down the field (Tevin Coleman helped a lot there) and that team had a second half lead on the road at eventual national champion OSU with Diamont at QB.  Additionally, by 2015 IU had 11 future NFL roster guys, 7-8 of which were on the two-deep.  That's pretty impressive for IU and that was all pre-TA.

Regarding DeBoer and Penix, we know now how special of a duo that is but we experienced an incredibly small sample size of it.  DeBoer was a fantastic hire by Allen but we only had him for 2019 and Penix was only healthy enough to start 6 of the 13 games that year.  I did enjoy 2019 but the best wins were at 5-7 Nebraska and at 5-7 Maryland, and I definitely recall being miserable in the stands surrounded by drunk Buckeye and Wolverine fans while we were getting beat down by those teams because we simply couldn't compete.

[Lebowski 2,744]

21 minutes ago, craigyv88 said:

You're absolutely right about Allen improving the defense once he got there, which speaks to his strength as a defensive mind and I always give him credit as much.  However he didn't get there until KW's final year in 2016.  Allen improved the team defense ranking from 117th in 2015 to 57th in 2016, but personally I feel the two best all-around teams KW had were 2014-15 which was still Brian Knorr at DC.  I mentioned my thoughts on 2015 and 2014 was also promising until Sudfeld went down.  Heck, even with freshman Zander Diamont who started spring as the 5th string QB in 2014 that team still found ways to move the ball down the field (Tevin Coleman helped a lot there) and that team had a second half lead on the road at eventual national champion OSU with Diamont at QB.  Additionally, by 2015 IU had 11 future NFL roster guys, 7-8 of which were on the two-deep.  That's pretty impressive for IU and that was all pre-TA.

Regarding DeBoer and Penix, we know now how special of a duo that is but we experienced an incredibly small sample size of it.  DeBoer was a fantastic hire by Allen but we only had him for 2019 and Penix was only healthy enough to start 6 of the 13 games that year.  I did enjoy 2019 but the best wins were at 5-7 Nebraska and at 5-7 Maryland, and I definitely recall being miserable in the stands surrounded by drunk Buckeye and Wolverine fans while we were getting beat down by those teams because we simply couldn't compete.

So you didn't enjoy watching the best offenses CTA ever had? I'm confused. Because you say that you prefer offensive type games. I would think you enjoyed those two years at least. 

[craigyv88 384]

I did like the offense in 2019 and 2020.  But in terms of the best offenses in recent IU memory, both of TA's predecessors had years that were as good or better than 2019-20 and when looking at whole tenures both put notably better offenses out on average.  2019 was the best offense under TA at a total team ranking of 42nd in FBS, while that mark was surpassed twice under Wilson and also once under Bill Lynch.  That includes two top-25 offenses with Wilson.  

The bottom falls out after 2020 and some of the worst offenses under Lynch and Wilson were not markedly different than the average offensive ranking of 82nd under TA.  Also, over the course of 2012-2016 Wilson’s offense led the conference in passing yards per game, was second in total yards per game, and third in points per game.

[RaceToTheTop 25,842]

IU football is both boring and bad.  Horrible combination.

[Lebowski 2,744]

17 hours ago, craigyv88 said:

I did like the offense in 2019 and 2020.  But in terms of the best offenses in recent IU memory, both of TA's predecessors had years that were as good or better than 2019-20 and when looking at whole tenures both put notably better offenses out on average.  2019 was the best offense under TA at a total team ranking of 42nd in FBS, while that mark was surpassed twice under Wilson and also once under Bill Lynch.  That includes two top-25 offenses with Wilson.  

The bottom falls out after 2020 and some of the worst offenses under Lynch and Wilson were not markedly different than the average offensive ranking of 82nd under TA.  Also, over the course of 2012-2016 Wilson’s offense led the conference in passing yards per game, was second in total yards per game, and third in points per game.

Well, I'm glad you were at least entertained during the time IUFB won 8 games one year and finished ranked 16th overall in the country the other. That's all I was asking in the grand scheme of things. 

Regarding your ranking screenshots, football is a team game. What you're showing me is that BL and KW weren't balanced compared to TA. I'll say it again, CTA's winning record is better than the other two coaches you brought up here. But I certainly understand your preference with an offensive coach calling the shots.

[craigyv88 384]

1 hour ago, Lebowski said:

Well, I'm glad you were at least entertained during the time IUFB won 8 games one year and finished ranked 16th overall in the country the other. That's all I was asking in the grand scheme of things. 

Regarding your ranking screenshots, football is a team game. What you're showing me is that BL and KW weren't balanced compared to TA. I'll say it again, CTA's winning record is better than the other two coaches you brought up here. But I certainly understand your preference with an offensive coach calling the shots.

CTA's win pct is indeed better, but that also implies that you are what your record says you are.  That's not always the case.  I do appreciate 2019-20 but it has to be kept in proper context.  The 8 teams IU beat in 2019 had a combined record of 25-71 for a win pct of only 0.26, and none won more than 5 games.  Also, 2019 IU was annihilated by both OSU and Michigan.  KW nor BL ever had a season with a pathway to 8 wins like that, and I feel multiple KW teams could have done the same and possibly better if given the same runway of beatable teams.  Still a very nice season, and indicative of what can happen with a good offense and actually getting a scheduling break for once. 

2020 was a little better in terms of strength of victories, but opt outs, no spring ball, and no crowds seemed to level things out some and helped IU.  Especially with PSU not having Micah Parsons and MSU and RU both having 1st year coaches with very little time to prepare.  Very odd year and to me the further we get away from it, the less special it was.  If you feel different that's cool.

Outside of those two seasons, I've found CTA's teams to be frustrating, undisciplined, and too limited offensively.  I could also do without the CTA shtick and bravado.  His teams are a little more balanced as you pointed out, problem being though they were balanced outside the top-100 in both offense and defense for two straight years and currently are at 115th in offense this year.  If you have found a way to enjoy IU football from 2021 to now I respect that and more power to you.  But in the words of Hulk Hogan, that don't work for me brother. 

[TTT 952]

In the grand scheme of IU football tradition.  Relax.  Criticize all you want but let T.A. contract run it s duration (for 2 or 3 years more).  A new coach no matter who…including pretty much anyone and everyone that might take the job gives about the same odds of winning as T.A. =  50%.  (recently the coaches were here kinda in an unorthodoxed way because T.A. Was already head coach) DeBoer, Womack and player Penix.  IU was excellent training ground for each of them.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,674]

15 minutes ago, TTT said:

In the grand scheme of IU football tradition.  Relax.  Criticize all you want but let T.A. contract run it s duration (for 2 or 3 years more).  A new coach no matter who…including pretty much anyone and everyone that might take the job gives about the same odds of winning as T.A. =  50%.  (recently the coaches were here kinda in an unorthodoxed way because T.A. Was already head coach) DeBoer, Womack and player Penix.  IU was excellent training ground for each of them.

Give Tom Allen more time to embarrass the program?

[Lebowski 2,744]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:51 PM, craigyv88 said:

CTA's win pct is indeed better, but that also implies that you are what your record says you are.  That's not always the case.  I do appreciate 2019-20 but it has to be kept in proper context.  The 8 teams IU beat in 2019 had a combined record of 25-71 for a win pct of only 0.26, and none won more than 5 games.  Also, 2019 IU was annihilated by both OSU and Michigan.  KW nor BL ever had a season with a pathway to 8 wins like that, and I feel multiple KW teams could have done the same and possibly better if given the same runway of beatable teams.  Still a very nice season, and indicative of what can happen with a good offense and actually getting a scheduling break for once. 

2020 was a little better in terms of strength of victories, but opt outs, no spring ball, and no crowds seemed to level things out some and helped IU.  Especially with PSU not having Micah Parsons and MSU and RU both having 1st year coaches with very little time to prepare.  Very odd year and to me the further we get away from it, the less special it was.  If you feel different that's cool.

Outside of those two seasons, I've found CTA's teams to be frustrating, undisciplined, and too limited offensively.  I could also do without the CTA shtick and bravado.  His teams are a little more balanced as you pointed out, problem being though they were balanced outside the top-100 in both offense and defense for two straight years and currently are at 115th in offense this year.  If you have found a way to enjoy IU football from 2021 to now I respect that and more power to you.  But in the words of Hulk Hogan, that don't work for me brother. 

That's cool man. I really enjoyed those two seasons. They were beating teams that good teams are supposed to beat. Getting national attention. The defense was ranked in the top 20! It's a rarity for IUFB to accomplish that kind of stuff. For me, it was cloud nine seeing offenses struggle against the blitz packages etc. etc.. I really enjoyed Justin Fields getting exposed for his inability to handle the various types of blitz packages we threw at him. Cloud nine stuff for me, man. Cloud nine. 

But all of that doesn't matter because here we are in a thread titled Fire Tom Allen. Personally, I would have liked to see him succeed even more than he already did but I also know the overall history of the program. I also feel your frustrations with him. His loyalty to a coach drove me nuts! Because it ultimately might be the reason he's terminated. I am ok with whatever decision is made regarding his future. Honestly, I am.

[WhiteyMcSpeed 109]

Time for a contract extension after that big win. #LEO

[Aguas 18]

For the love of all that is HOLY fire Tom Allen. Akron in 4 overtime’s is not a win. And Lebowski, stop. Just stop. He is horrible. Yes, he is better than any coach IU has ever had but he is monumentally horrible nonetheless. Expect more and perhaps you will get more. Fire Tom Allen. Pay real money for a real coach and staff and perhaps have a competitive team. BIG is gonna be brutal…BRUTAL!

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,674]

Is there a more misused player in the nation than Jaylin Lucas? Why is he out starting RB and not a starting WR? Why is he never lining up in the slot? Dude should be set to run slants and in routes all day long, with an occasional screen pass. Literally wasting away his time. 100% guarantee he transfers after this season.

[Demo 20,060]

51 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Is there a more misused player in the nation than Jaylin Lucas? Why is he out starting RB and not a starting WR? Why is he never lining up in the slot? Dude should be set to run slants and in routes all day long, with an occasional screen pass. Literally wasting away his time. 100% guarantee he transfers after this season.

He is such a gadget piece for a creative staff. But right now every time they hand off to that kid on some downhill run, all I think is please, God, don’t get hurt. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,674]

1 minute ago, Demo said:

He is such a gadget piece for a creative staff. But right now every time they hand off to that kid on some downhill run, all I think is please, God, don’t get hurt. 

He would kill in a Shane Wynn role.

[DChoosier 8,460]

1 hour ago, Demo said:

He is such a gadget piece for a creative staff. But right now every time they hand off to that kid on some downhill run, all I think is please, God, don’t get hurt. 

I also posted this in the game thread but why, why, why why has Bell unsuccessfully run us up the middle, when it is short and goal, 10 or 11 straight times during “regular” game time but then…..
For some reason, fortunately, he actually mixed it up when we had the two overtime 2 point conversions (ie basically short and goal).   Instead of plowing up the middle the first 2 point attempt was an incomplete pass but it was a successful call as Jackson missed seeing a wide open Lucas in the end zone (no one was within 10 yards of him).  The second conversion attempt involved a little trickery with Jackson getting the ball back and completing the conversion pass. 
I wonder if the vastly different results will sink-in with Bell (and his head coach)?

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,776]

10 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

I also posted this in the game thread but why, why, why why has Bell unsuccessfully run us up the middle, when it is short and goal, 10 or 11 straight times during “regular” game time but then…..

“ The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results” – Albert Einstein 

[TTT 952]

Makes one wonder if there is a sideline job that makes one call plays up the middle near goal line time after time.  (that includes practice, game preparation, strategy off season and during season).

[Alford Bailey 12,386]

3 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Is there a more misused player in the nation than Jaylin Lucas? Why is he out starting RB and not a starting WR? Why is he never lining up in the slot? Dude should be set to run slants and in routes all day long, with an occasional screen pass. Literally wasting away his time. 100% guarantee he transfers after this season.

I don’t get it

[Hornsby 1,952]

For the love of all that is HOLY fire Tom Allen. Akron in 4 overtime’s is not a win. And Lebowski, stop. Just stop. He is horrible. Yes, he is better than any coach IU has ever had but he is monumentally horrible nonetheless. Expect more and perhaps you will get more. Fire Tom Allen. Pay real money for a real coach and staff and perhaps have a competitive team. BIG is gonna be brutal…BRUTAL!

Covid year was a fluke

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

[DChoosier 8,460]

4 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Is there a more misused player in the nation than Jaylin Lucas? Why is he out starting RB and not a starting WR? Why is he never lining up in the slot? Dude should be set to run slants and in routes all day long, with an occasional screen pass. Literally wasting away his time. 100% guarantee he transfers after this season.

Yep.

Not only do they have him as a “run it between the tackles running back” he is actually used as a blocking back!?!?!? Lucas is one of the most exciting weapons we have had in a while but as a 160-170 lb (generous 170) speedster he is literally anything BUT a blocker. Insane.

EDIT:

PS, Can you imagine if Lucas had also transferred to UW? Penix to Lucas connections would be national highlights every week.