IUBB @ Penn State - 01/02/22 @ 4:00 on BTN

[Whoozhers 3,723]

I was really hoping under CMW that we wouldn’t see anything like we have in the last 4 to 5 years. Sadly, there have been some games that are carbon copies of previous years.
I still really like CMW and hope he can get the ship righted ASAP!
G Hsiers!


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[HoosierAloha 30,077]

21 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

This is a great post, especially the first sentence. 

AKHoosier took a shot at me yesterday because I'm the "grand marshall on the Mike Woodson is a great hire parade."

But the reason I'm excited about the staff we've assembled is not, and has not been because of their ability to provide a one-year turnaround. It's because of what I see as an extensive collective staff resume of;

• building a culture,
• building a roster, and
• producing sustained results.

It's not just Woodson for me; it's the Woodson, Fife, Matta, Armond Hill, Yas, Kenya combo.

So far this staff has brought in exactly one new recruit (Tamar Bates) that is not a one-year stop-gap. Bates is a three level scorer that plays erratically so far, but as a three level scorer with swagger. We have Banks, JHS, Jakai Newton, Gunn and Cupps signed. I remain of the belief that we are bringing in the talent to fit how we want to play, and who we want to do it with. In the mean time? There will be lots of ups and downs as a new style of play and roster is established. 

If I'm Jalen Hood Schifino and I'm watching yesterday's game, all I can think of would be how much I can help the current situation.

 

In the Big 1.0, you need a big that can AT LEAST defend other bigs. Where is that coming from? Who has been recruited by this staff that can accomplish that?

I like the hype that Banks, JHS, Newton, etc. are receiving but I've seen that dog and pony show too many times.

I believe Bates will be a good one. While we brought in ONE(!!) other programs already had them on the roster and are bringing in multiple good to great players. If Woody can recruit at a high level we have a chance to turn it around. More than just bringing in high end talent I'd like to see us develop that talent. That shouldn't be taking place during games. That should be taking place over the summer.

We've heard of TJD working on his right hand and jump shot. Where has that shown in actual games? He's hit a few jumpers and made a few with his right hand. He's still scared to do both. The hype is there, the results aren't.

[Five Prime 1,093]

4 hours ago, Chris007 said:

My quick review of yesterday.

TJD is just not a finisher. If the game is on the line, I don't feel comfortable with the ball in his hands.

Woodson has to do better with timeouts. This is not the NBA, you can't call one anytime you want then have 0 left for the final minute.

Down 3 with 13 seconds to go, no reason for TJD and Race to both be in the game and not Kopp or Leal. That's either an assistant's fault or the head coach's.

This is not the free-flowing offense that was advertised. 

I know Bates has a lot on his plate right now but we need him to play more. Not sure why he didn't play in the 2nd half. 

Something is missing from this team.

What is competent guard play Alec?

[LamarCheeks 19,656]

26 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

That's why I said if things start to go south. If we're not going to make the tourney, play Lander to see if he has a future or not here

Hey Chris, 

You seem to have some insight as to what goes on in Cook Hall. Is there any obvious tension between Lander and Woody -- other than Lander's arse being planted on the bench? He wasn't playing at all early, then started picking up a few minutes here and there and after a couple pretty bad gaffes at Syracuse, has barely seen the floor. 

I think dribbling out the clock and the late foul against Syracuse were pretty egregious errors, and Lander can be a defensive liability, but who on the team hasn't made some pretty bad errors? Stewart doesn't play much defense and had some sort of malfeasance to get benched against Northern Kentucky. And he took only two 3-pointers against PSU -- maybe that's not all his fault. But if he's not playing D or hitting 3s -- not sure what his value is. And Kopp took only two 3s at PSU -- same thing; if he's not shooting and hitting 3s, not sure what his value is.

And X was pretty brutal down the stretch in Madison. Phin has had some pretty awful moments, too. My point is -- all the guards make mistakes -- some worse than others. But Lander's seem to be held against him more than others -- at least to my naked eye. Is he screwing up in practice? Perhaps he's not the five-star talent he was cracked up to be, and he still is very young, but he's barely sniffed the court since Syracuse -- even in the blowouts against Merrimack and NK. It just seems like might be something more to it than some miscues in games. I'm perplexed. 

[Chris007 45,957]

5 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

Hey Chris, 

You seem to have some insight as to what goes on in Cook Hall. Is there any obvious tension between Lander and Woody -- other than Lander's arse being planted on the bench? He wasn't playing at all early, then started picking up a few minutes here and there and after a couple pretty bad gaffes at Syracuse, has barely seen the floor. 

I think dribbling out the clock and the late foul against Syracuse were pretty egregious errors, and Lander can be a defensive liability, but who on the team hasn't made some pretty bad errors? Stewart doesn't play much defense and had some sort of malfeasance to get benched against Northern Kentucky. And he took only two 3-pointers against PSU -- maybe that's not all his fault. But if he's not playing D or hitting 3s -- not sure what his value is. And Kopp took only two 3s at PSU -- same thing; if he's not shooting and hitting 3s, not sure what his value is.

And X was pretty brutal down the stretch in Madison. Phin has had some pretty awful moments, too. My point is -- all the guards make mistakes -- some worse than others. But Lander's seem to be held against him more than others -- at least to my naked eye. Is he screwing up in practice? Perhaps he's not the five-star talent he was cracked up to be, and he still is very young, but he's barely sniffed the court since Syracuse -- even in the blowouts against Merrimack and NK. It just seems like might be something more to it than some miscues in games. I'm perplexed. 

I'll answer as much as I can but honestly haven't had as much access this season as in years past. Part of it is COVID and part of it is the person who gets me into practice has been dealing with some health issues so haven't bothered asking them. Also, Brian Walsh used to handle the guestlist for practice and is not doing it this year.

But from the people I know, there are no problems right now, just the staff doesn't think he should be getting minutes. I do know Coach Woodson was very upset that Lander did run the play correctly in the Syracuse game. But other than that haven't heard much other than he is young and he is doing everything that is asked of him.

I'm almost to the point of giving him the reins and letting him learn on the job.

I do think he was misrated by the scouts. He's not a 5 star. I had one lower-level D1 coach tell me he thought he had a chance to get him till he came out as a 5-star recruit in AAU. Guards seem to be our problem and him not getting any play seems perplexing to me. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,938]

I don’t think Woody has recruited well enough yet to get us to the top tier of programs (because I don’t really think he’s a good enough coach to get us there with less than top talent). 

Bates and JHS were great additions. But they’re the only two recruits we’ve signed in the top 60. Duncomb is the only other guy in the top 80, and he was an Archie recruit. 

For comparison, Duke landed the #1, #4, #7, and #15 recruits in the class of 2022. They have four kids ranked higher than our highest recruit. Arkansas has two guys in the top 30 and a third guy ranked #54. Alabama has two guys in the top 20, Clowney at #61, and another kid at #62. Kentucky has #4, #5, and #16. 

We need better players. Woody hasn’t been a horrible recruiter, but he needs to be better. It’s IU, Archie landed some highly ranked players too. Woody needs to be bringing in classes with 3-4 top 60 kids. 

[Uspshoosier 46,448]

40 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I don’t think Woody has recruited well enough yet to get us to the top tier of programs (because I don’t really think he’s a good enough coach to get us there with less than top talent). 

Bates and JHS were great additions. But they’re the only two recruits we’ve signed in the top 60. Duncomb is the only other guy in the top 80, and he was an Archie recruit. 

For comparison, Duke landed the #1, #4, #7, and #15 recruits in the class of 2022. They have four kids ranked higher than our highest recruit. Arkansas has two guys in the top 30 and a third guy ranked #54. Arkansas has two guys in the top 20, Clowney at #61, and another kid at #62. Kentucky has #4, #5, and #16. 

We need better players. Woody hasn’t been a horrible recruiter, but he needs to be better. It’s IU, Archie landed some highly ranked players too. Woody needs to be bringing in classes with 3-4 top 60 kids. 

You mean Alabama instead of Arkansas I think 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,719]

I don’t think Woody has recruited well enough yet to get us to the top tier of programs (because I don’t really think he’s a good enough coach to get us there with less than top talent). 
Bates and JHS were great additions. But they’re the only two recruits we’ve signed in the top 60. Duncomb is the only other guy in the top 80, and he was an Archie recruit. 
For comparison, Duke landed the #1, #4, #7, and #15 recruits in the class of 2022. They have four kids ranked higher than our highest recruit. Arkansas has two guys in the top 30 and a third guy ranked #54. Arkansas has two guys in the top 20, Clowney at #61, and another kid at #62. Kentucky has #4, #5, and #16. 
We need better players. Woody hasn’t been a horrible recruiter, but he needs to be better. It’s IU, Archie landed some highly ranked players too. Woody needs to be bringing in classes with 3-4 top 60 kids. 

The highest chances of success. Get the talent. I’ve always been big on this. Woodson is doing ok, I guess, but not enough.

1. Identify the talent
2. Identify the potential
3. Transfer the potential into talent.

The scouts are mostly right, but not always. Getting 5 stars simplify the process. The other options take an eye and a system.

Getting guys in the 120s not likely to lead to the type of success we want for Indiana.


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[HoosierAloha 30,077]

For those who follow and enjoy Tony’s stuff…

Penn State isn’t a good basketball team. That kind of tells you where #iubb is right now.

— Tony Adragna (@CoachAdragna) January 2, 2022

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[str8baller 5,544]

7 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I don’t think Woody has recruited well enough yet to get us to the top tier of programs (because I don’t really think he’s a good enough coach to get us there with less than top talent). 

Bates and JHS were great additions. But they’re the only two recruits we’ve signed in the top 60. Duncomb is the only other guy in the top 80, and he was an Archie recruit. 

For comparison, Duke landed the #1, #4, #7, and #15 recruits in the class of 2022. They have four kids ranked higher than our highest recruit. Arkansas has two guys in the top 30 and a third guy ranked #54. Alabama has two guys in the top 20, Clowney at #61, and another kid at #62. Kentucky has #4, #5, and #16. 

We need better players. Woody hasn’t been a horrible recruiter, but he needs to be better. It’s IU, Archie landed some highly ranked players too. Woody needs to be bringing in classes with 3-4 top 60 kids. 

The Movement…part duex

[Golfman25 5,774]

12 hours ago, str8baller said:

You’re not gonna get these guys, or any guys thrown together for 6mos, to play effective motion offense like we’re used to. Knight (and other motion based coaches) rarely played freshman for a reason.   
 

They seem to be attempting some spread pick and roll or 4-out feed the post offense. Both of those are fine for this group. But the ball still has to move. Our guys have horrible spacing and are below average passers. Not a good combination. 

Don't need full blown Bobby Knight motion.  But a simple pass and cut, or even pass and slide down to the corner, or movement off the ball, etc.  would be exponentially better than pass and stand.  The guys on this team aren't athletic enough right now to create their own opportunties.  They need some help -- a simple screen to get Kopp or Stewart open for a clean look would work wonders.  

[str8baller 5,544]

8 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Least we forget the 4-out pass the ball to the wing, hold for several seconds, pass the ball to the corner, hold for a few seconds, pass the ball back to the wing, hold, pass the ball to the top of the key, hold, repeat offense. That one will REALLY throw the defense off. I giggle when I see this because one of the local FRESHMEN teams uses this as a drill for their zone defense to practice communication and movement before games. The really sad part is we (IU) run it at about the same speed as they do in their prep stuff. I wonder why it's so easy to defend against.

Look, we don't need to go into a full motion offense. It would take some time to implement and be good. However, when you watch PSU send a second defender to TJD and the weakside defender is effectively defending two of our shooters (why are they on the weakside?!) without any movement it's obvious why our offense sucks. We see it, don't you think the coaches and players see it? Are we watching film to correct it? I can't imagine we're watching film with the feedback to the players being "nice job by you two standing in the corner and on the wing." "TJD I'm proud that you took it against two defenders and almost hit the rim, we'll get them next time."

Where is it broke? That needs fixed, yesterday.

Like I mentioned way back in the thread, maybe not in response to you, the problems are spacing and ball movement. Those things are much easier to fix than implementing a bunch of cutting or screens.  I’m positive the staff is working on it. Like you,  I’m frustrated with the slow progress. Can you imagine how CMW feels?

[IUFAN1976 3,559]

29 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Like I mentioned way back in the thread, maybe not in response to you, the problems are spacing and ball movement. Those things are much easier to fix than implementing a bunch of cutting or screens.  I’m positive the staff is working on it. Like you,  I’m frustrated with the slow progress. Can you imagine how CMW feels?

Well said!  Don’t forget there is a lot of bad habits or trends they have to totally undue before we start seeing CMW’s true system and improvement 

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

Like I mentioned way back in the thread, maybe not in response to you, the problems are spacing and ball movement. Those things are much easier to fix than implementing a bunch of cutting or screens.  I’m positive the staff is working on it. Like you,  I’m frustrated with the slow progress. Can you imagine how CMW feels?

Completely agree, I was hoping that complete benching of the starters earlier in the season against a cupcake would send a message. It seems like that message missed its mark. We make basketball way more difficult than it is. I guess we just need to wait longer to see if there are trends...

The last three coaches have stated they've spent the majority or all of the first few months working on defense. Whaaaat?! The defense has its issues still and the offense is garbage. Is it really that difficult to implement a few concepts to get open looks? How difficult is it to get your players to move once the ball goes into the post? How isn't there a 4 hour tape on what they're doing (standing) vs. what they should be doing (a little movement please!!) that they're forced to watch on these trips to drive home the point?

I can't imagine but hopefully it's pissing him off more than us when his theme of "finish" in the previous game resulted in the team allowing a terrible NKU team to cut into the lead or his them of "communicate" lead to us completely forgetting that there were two players involved in a ball screen.

A leader holding others accountable would go a long way. Who is the leader of this team? TJD? We've seen him going through the motions too often. X? Love his energy and passion but he's got problems he needs to figure out before he can straighten others out. Race? Love his energy and effort too, not sure I see a leader out of him.

[94Bulldog 603]

IMO, it’s a lack of talent in our 1-3 positions.  None of our 1-3 starters or bench players would start for any top 25 team.  It’s really as simple as that.  None of them can create for their own shot, except maybe Bates.  None of them can break a guy down for an easier entry pass.  And none of them possess high basketball IQ either.  
 

My solution, change of lineup.  Rob has outplayed X the last month.  Rob, Bates, Stewart, Race, TJD.  Kopp and Stewart are too much alike and shouldn’t start as wings together.  Bates brings more athleticism.   Kopp first man off the bench for Race.  Yes we’ll lose rebounding, but that allows a true 4 out.  Race subs back in for TJD when he needs a breather.  TJD shouldn’t play less than 34 minutes unless in foul trouble.  Rob (I know his past, I’m a huge critic, but he’s been outplaying X recently) Bates and Geronimo need to play more.  Kopp and X less.

[Honkyman 1,670]

Bates brings more athleticism than Kopp. But he looked completely lost in the first half against Penn State. That seems to be why Woodson ended up going with both Xavier and Rob while sitting Kopp in the second half. Bates is not ready for starting time. Geronimo looked good in the first half, though, but didn't play but once briefly in the second half. Rob played terrible the first half but kept IU in the game down the stretch.