Michael Durr to Indiana (South Florida Transfer)

[Southside]

3 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

I’m not.  Statistically they were 247th in tempo (slow, but faster than we were).  Didn’t shot a ton of threes and weren’t good at it.  Offense was very balanced....player leading in shots averaged 10 per game.  Leading scorer and only double figure scorer averaged 12 1/2 but five more players averaged over 8 per game.

Sounds like very balanced due to mediocrity lol. Not sure if that's good or bad. If they didn't shoot many 3s, that would lead me to believe teams could crowd low, making it harder on Durr. And the low scoring average of their players tells me no one drew attention. 

Overall, even more mystery lol. 

I got a giggle on the "slow, but faster than we were" comment lol. 

3 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Thing is we’re likely to see multiple different lineups in multiple games and I’d be surprised if we didn’t see the two together, situationally, at some point — Woodson has shown over many years that he is flexible and will run the team and sets needed as a game can dictate - and that will be refreshing. 

Yup, for sure we'll see different lineups. 

My gut tells me we might see TJD play a decent amount of off-4 if Durr has some power-move in him. Many versions of the 41 for the 5, but I can see a situation where we use Durr as a simplified non-ball side, or ball-side 5, and have TJD causing havoc on the other side. Again, that assumes Durr can develop a power move presence.

I think I need to watch more tape on Durr.

[CSP]

13 hours ago, Southside said:

From a pure player development perspective, you'd want TJD developing range more than Durr, if I understand Woodson's system correctly. In the 41, there are lots of options for the 5 or "in". And TJD really wouldn't be a true post guy in a situation where Durr was the 5. To add, yes we've seen it, but it's been in an Archie system.

Why wouldn't he post up if Durr was the 5? I don't know of a 2 post offense that's successful right now. 

Durr is quite a bit better of a shooter than TJD is currently. 

[ap2345]

TJD isn't playing the 4. He will be a 5 and Durr will be a 5. They won't play together in a 4-1 motion offense that Woodson is planning on running. 

[CSP]

8 minutes ago, ap2345 said:

TJD isn't playing the 4. He will be a 5 and Durr will be a 5. They won't play together in a 4-1 motion offense that Woodson is planning on running. 

The 4 or the 5 is irrelevant. TJD isn't going to be playing with another big that can't stretch the floor. Either Thompson or Durr has to develop from the outside. Just needs to be respectable.

[hoosierbgh]

While it is always fascinating to read opinions on exactly what Coach Woodson is going to do and how he is going to do it, I doubt even Coach knows that yet for certain. He certainly knows what he wants to do but so much of what he is able to do will depend on the development of every player on the roster. Right now he has options, which is great but there are also a lot variables and moving pieces. I think or hope at least, that for the first time in quite awhile we have a coach that is flexible enough to do what will make IU the most successful it can be instead of rigidly sticking to the same plan despite glaring flaws in that plan or lacking critical components to execute it effectively.  

[Stuhoo]

17 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

Thompson? Maybe. But Durr? Seems silly to me taking a guy that is 7' 250+lbs and trying to develop a floor game over the summer before his 3rd year in college. Obviously a well-rounded skillset is better, but he's a pretty traditional center and it would negate his size and skill-set if he's always away from the basket. I'd rather he refine his inside game so he is money as the "1 in" post and let guys that can already shoot outside do that. I know I'll get savaged for it, but I don't think Durr (or Jackson) trying to suddenly become Kevin Durant is realistic or helps IU win games. 

 

Durr is not an effective post scorer--he's a big, strong seven-footer that hasn't shown that ability in three years. He may have a better chance to develop as a 'have to guard him' stand still outside shooter than as a low post scorer.

Completely agree--not every big is gonna become the next Kevin Durant. I'm guessing that Durr or Thompson will primarily spell TJD for ten minutes per game. HOWEVER, an immobile big can become a decent stand still outside shooter (see Bielfeldt, Max). Both Thompson and Durr have shown glimmers of ability to do this. If either could do this consistently, they would then be an option to be on the court at the same time as TJD. If not? They are backup 5s IMO.

 

[CSP]

3 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

Thompson? Maybe. But Durr? Seems silly to me taking a guy that is 7' 250+lbs and trying to develop a floor game over the summer before his 3rd year in college. Obviously a well-rounded skillset is better, but he's a pretty traditional center and it would negate his size and skill-set if he's always away from the basket. I'd rather he refine his inside game so he is money as the "1 in" post and let guys that can already shoot outside do that. I know I'll get savaged for it, but I don't think Durr (or Jackson) trying to suddenly become Kevin Durant is realistic or helps IU win games. 

He shot 79% from the line last year and his form looks very good. I haven't seen anyone mention anything about being KD? No idea where that came from. Again.. I said respectable. He has already made great strides in his shooting since being in college. Literally this is why we hired CMW... players like this. Player development has been nonexistent for 4 years. We have that now. There is evidence everywhere of players developing a shot.

So... you want him in the post. Do you not want to see TJD on the floor much then? We aren't going to play two traditional posts together. He will still off reb a ton. He can still be 7' 250 on the defensive end defending the rim. That "traditional post" you speak of shot 41% from the field in the post. That's not good, at all.

Haven't you seen enough two posts offense to see that it's not the most efficient way to score the basketball?

[CSP]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

 

A lot to like in your post:

Completely agree--not every big is gonna become the next Kevin Durant. I'm guessing that Durr or Thompson will primarily spell TJD for ten minutes per game. HOWEVER, an immobile big can become a decent stand still outside shooter (see Bielfeldt, Max). Both Thompson and Durr have shown glimmers of ability to do this. If either could do this consistently, they would then be an option to be on the court at the same time as TJD. If not? They are backup 5s IMO.

 

Alllllllll I'm saying

I love where we are front court wise with TJD, Kopp, Durr, Duncomb, Thompson, and Geronimo. All American, experience, two guys developing but will still get opportunities. CMW and staff have assembled, on paper, an excellent/well balanced roster. Pieces really compliment each other. Kopp, Durr, and Bates at the end of this spring... excellent work.

[Stuhoo]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

Alllllllll I'm saying

I love where we are front court wise with TJD, Kopp, Durr, Duncomb, Thompson, and Geronimo. All American, experience, two guys developing but will still get opportunities. CMW and staff have assembled, on paper, an excellent/well balanced roster. Pieces really compliment each other. Kopp, Durr, and Bates at the end of this spring... excellent work.

ESPECIALLY Geronimo. He's the 'X-factor' in my opinion. 

[T White]

3 hours ago, btownqb said:

The 4 or the 5 is irrelevant. TJD isn't going to be playing with another big that can't stretch the floor. Either Thompson or Durr has to develop from the outside. Just needs to be respectable.

Why not have expectations for TJD to work on his away from the bucket offense? He wants to get to the next level, right? Well, at the next level he isn't going to cut it as a center. As a 4?, maybe. But that means working on his game away from the bucket.

[CSP]

1 minute ago, T White said:

Why not have expectations for TJD to work on his away from the bucket offense? He wants to get to the next level, right? Well, at the next level he isn't going to cut it as a center. As a 4?, maybe. But that means working on his game away from the bucket.

I mean.. I don't disagree, but TJD is a fair amount better around the rim than Durr. And Durr has at least shown the ability to shoot "some".

[Josh]

On 5/19/2021 at 10:38 PM, Southside said:

Anyone familiar with USF's system?

I know about a hundred USF grads.  100% of the ones I asked had no idea about the basketball program.  Welcome to IU Michael Durr!  You made an excellent decision.

[Southside]

On 5/21/2021 at 8:40 AM, btownqb said:

Why wouldn't he post up if Durr was the 5? I don't know of a 2 post offense that's successful right now. 

Durr is quite a bit better of a shooter than TJD is currently. 

Not sure I would really call a 41 O a two post offense. 

I'm no expert on the 41, but I've read a decent amount on it. 

Here's a basic article on the scheme if you're interested.

https://www.basketballforcoaches.com/4-out-1-in-offense/

[Southside]

On 5/21/2021 at 1:53 PM, T White said:

Why not have expectations for TJD to work on his away from the bucket offense? He wants to get to the next level, right? Well, at the next level he isn't going to cut it as a center. As a 4?, maybe. But that means working on his game away from the bucket.

Yup. From the reports I read about TJD's return, is that he wants to work on those things. You have to think that was a selling point from Woodson. If he's going to play the same way and the same position as he did last year, not sure the benefit of him returning. He's not going to translate to the NBA as a 5 like he played last year. It'll be interesting that's for sure.

[ap2345]

1 hour ago, Southside said:

Yup. From the reports I read about TJD's return, is that he wants to work on those things. You have to think that was a selling point from Woodson. If he's going to play the same way and the same position as he did last year, not sure the benefit of him returning. He's not going to translate to the NBA as a 5 like he played last year. It'll be interesting that's for sure.

TJD will play the 5. Think of a guy like Robinson-Earl at Nova. He was the 5 in their 4-1 motion but still spaced out to the perimeter in pick and rolls/pops. The 5 can also get time on the perimeter in certain sets. 

[Southside]

1 hour ago, ap2345 said:

TJD will play the 5. Think of a guy like Robinson-Earl at Nova. He was the 5 in their 4-1 motion but still spaced out to the perimeter in pick and rolls/pops. The 5 can also get time on the perimeter in certain sets. 

Probably, but the discussion was stemming from comments about Durr and TJD playing at the same time. If they both are on the floor, doubt Durr will be the 4. Also comments on the topic of TJD's translation to the NBA, which likely won't happen so long as he's playing solely a 5.

[DWB]

Just based on these general principals of the 41, it is everything we weren't for the last 4 years...

4-Out 1-In Motion General Rules

1. Keep Great Spacing – This is the most important rule of the offense. Perimeter players should always be about 18 feet away from each other.

2. Cut With a Purpose on Every Cut – Players must look like they’re going to receive the basketball on every cut towards the hoop. This involves showing target hands and calling for the basketball.

3. Never Pass and Stand – After a perimeter player makes a pass, they should never stay in the same place. What action they make will depend on what progression you’re up to and the actions you choose to use.

4. Watch the Cutters! – I’m not a fan of players holding the basketball for too long, but since this offense relies so much on cutters and off-ball screens, it’s important that the player with the basketball see the cutters and is ready to make the pass if it’s open.

5. Always Catch Looking to Shoot – Players must keep the defense honest throughout the entire possession. Always catch the basketball ready to shoot if the defense isn’t quick enough.

6. No Excess Dribbling – Don’t allow players to catch and put the basketball on the floor without thinking. Save the dribble. Only dribble when penetrating to the rim, using an on-ball screen, or improving a passing angle.

I don't think we'll be screaming at the TVs this fall about a scorer standing in the corner waiting for the ball to "maybe" come his way, or a guard dribbling the logo off the ball at the top of the key.

[Southside]

8 minutes ago, DWB said:

Just based on these general principals of the 41, it is everything we weren't for the last 4 years...

4-Out 1-In Motion General Rules

1. Keep Great Spacing – This is the most important rule of the offense. Perimeter players should always be about 18 feet away from each other.

2. Cut With a Purpose on Every Cut – Players must look like they’re going to receive the basketball on every cut towards the hoop. This involves showing target hands and calling for the basketball.

3. Never Pass and Stand – After a perimeter player makes a pass, they should never stay in the same place. What action they make will depend on what progression you’re up to and the actions you choose to use.

4. Watch the Cutters! – I’m not a fan of players holding the basketball for too long, but since this offense relies so much on cutters and off-ball screens, it’s important that the player with the basketball see the cutters and is ready to make the pass if it’s open.

5. Always Catch Looking to Shoot – Players must keep the defense honest throughout the entire possession. Always catch the basketball ready to shoot if the defense isn’t quick enough.

6. No Excess Dribbling – Don’t allow players to catch and put the basketball on the floor without thinking. Save the dribble. Only dribble when penetrating to the rim, using an on-ball screen, or improving a passing angle.

I don't think we'll be screaming at the TVs this fall about a scorer standing in the corner waiting for the ball to "maybe" come his way, or a guard dribbling the logo off the ball at the top of the key.

From the same article I posted, and specifically on 5/post options

Quote

 

"How to Use the Post Player
1. Post player must stay on the weak side but can flash to the post (Recommended)

2. Post player must always stay on the weak side the entire possession.

3. Post player must always stay on one side of the floor the entire possession.

4. Post player always stays in front of the basketball"

 

 

I'm sure there are more nuances and Woodson likely has his own formula, but guessing we'll likely employ #1.

 

[ap2345]

7 hours ago, Southside said:

Probably, but the discussion was stemming from comments about Durr and TJD playing at the same time. If they both are on the floor, doubt Durr will be the 4. Also comments on the topic of TJD's translation to the NBA, which likely won't happen so long as he's playing solely a 5.

Well they won’t play together more than a handful of minutes throughout the season. As for TJD being the 5 he won’t stay in the dunkers spot the entire time. The dunkers spot is referring to the weak side block. There will be plenty of sets and movements that allow him to space to the perimeter and do other things besides standing on then block. Thompson, Geronimo, and Kopp will be the 4’s 95% of the time. 

[CSP]

10 hours ago, Southside said:

Not sure I would really call a 41 O a two post offense. 

I'm no expert on the 41, but I've read a decent amount on it. 

Here's a basic article on the scheme if you're interested.

https://www.basketballforcoaches.com/4-out-1-in-offense/

What? 

I've coached a 4 out 1 in offense for 3 years now. Labeling positions is honestly archaic. 2 wings wide, one post goes strong block in transition (TJD) and works back to being on the weak side or ball screening for the majority of the possession in the half court. Durr, Kopp, Thompson, Geronimo trail.