Archie. Miller. Fired.

[8bucks]

I think the lack of a vote of confidence from Dolson could be something to watch for. Those sometimes go the other way but if he is bringing Archie back he will let folks know soon I would think 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

1 minute ago, 8bucks said:

I think the lack of a vote of confidence from Dolson could be something to watch for. Those sometimes go the other way but if he is bringing Archie back he will let folks know soon I would think 

I doubt he will. They'll just continue on because they fully believe they fans deserve to be in the dark. 

[coonhounds]

I doubt he will. They'll just continue on because they fully believe they fans deserve to be in the dark. 

No 8 bucks is right. If dolson doesn't come out and stand behind archie soon he is gone imo. He should have already done that to maybe help with recruiting some if he was coming back. I have said for a while archie wouldn't be back next season and I am even more confident now

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[Class of '66 Old Fart]

2 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

No 8 bucks is right. If dolson doesn't come out and stand behind archie soon he is gone imo. He should have already done that to maybe help with recruiting some if he was coming back. I have said for a while archie wouldn't be back next season and I am even more confident now
 

I tend to agree that with the bad PR coming from all directions he needs a vote of confidence to sustain any recruiting momentum he may have.  Without one the fat lady is singing for Archie as  head coach.

[Stuhoo]

3 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

I tend to agree that with the bad PR coming from all directions he needs a vote of confidence to sustain any recruiting momentum he may have.  Without one the fat lady is singing for Archie as  head coach.

Yup.

For Archie to have any chance in recruiting, if he’s not getting fired he needs a contract extension WITHOUT touching the buyout.

Might make less savvy fans go nuts but it would be good for business.

[HinnyHoosier]

I know we want a change, and I know we want to be winners and blue bloods and so on like...yesterday. But if we’ve learned anything from the transition from the Tom Crean era it should be that anything can get worse. If Archie is relieved of his duties too soon without the right guy waiting in the wings, well... can you imagine STILL wishing for the Crean days 4-5 years from now?

It feels rock bottom right now. But it’s not, sadly. Let’s just be careful what we wish for and hope the administration moves forward in a way indicative of diligence and the presence of a spine.


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[rcbowla]

I know we want a change, and I know we want to be winners and blue bloods and so on like...yesterday. But if we’ve learned anything from the transition from the Tom Crean era it should be that anything can get worse. If Archie is relieved of his duties too soon without the right guy waiting in the wings, well... can you imagine STILL wishing for the Crean days 4-5 years from now?

It feels rock bottom right now. But it’s not, sadly. Let’s just be careful what we wish for and hope the administration moves forward in a way indicative of diligence and the presence of a spine.


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I would argue breaking 100 year old records, not the good kind, is about as bad as it gets for IU basketball. Any new hire would bring a new energy and perspective. That alone would be better than continuing on down this path. You're right it may not be better but it'd be hard to get much worse.

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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

No 8 bucks is right. If dolson doesn't come out and stand behind archie soon he is gone imo. He should have already done that to maybe help with recruiting some if he was coming back. I have said for a while archie wouldn't be back next season and I am even more confident now

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I hope you are right.

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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

I ran into another IU fan here in my home County at Menards. I've known him a long time, but hadn't had a chance to see him since covid started. The first thing out of his mouth is "they better fire Archie". More and more fans are on the bandwagon

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[HinnyHoosier]

I would argue breaking 100 year old records, not the good kind, is about as bad as it gets for IU basketball. Any new hire would bring a new energy and perspective. That alone would be better than continuing on down this path. You're right it may not be better but it'd be hard to get much worse.

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So I pose the question: do we pine and pressure for a change solely for the sake of change, even if that change is a lateral move or *gulps* worse? Then was the change in energy and perspective worth it for the wasted time and money? That question posed in the current era seems like it would be answered with a resounding ‘No’.

Maybe Dolson & Co already have something in the works; that would be fantastic. But if not, do we chase change down a similar path at the risk of continued poo-poo results, apathy, degradation of the HC position, etc? Or do we continue course and give the admin the time it needs to confidently nail down a solid change of direction to get this program moving back in the right direction?

It’s like a bad beat in sports betting. The confident wager went south and you can’t help but feel the need to chase and make up the loss. But when you chase, you make a hurried gamble.

I don’t want this transition to be the hurried gamble.


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[RaceToTheTop]

10 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

So I pose the question: do we pine and pressure for a change solely for the sake of change, even if that change is a lateral move or *gulps* worse? Then was the change in energy and perspective worth it for the wasted time and money? That question posed in the current era seems like it would be answered with a resounding ‘No’.

Maybe Dolson & Co already have something in the works; that would be fantastic. But if not, do we chase change down a similar path at the risk of continued poo-poo results, apathy, degradation of the HC position, etc? Or do we continue course and give the admin the time it needs to confidently nail down a solid change of direction to get this program moving back in the right direction?

It’s like a bad beat in sports betting. The confident wager went south and you can’t help but feel the need to chase and make up the loss. But when you chase, you make a hurried gamble.

I don’t want this transition to be the hurried gamble.


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Odds are a coaching change brings an immediate worse in the short term.  Likely will see some transfers and I believe we only have one recruit coming in who likely isn't going to provide an immediate impact.  But if we make a change, the focus certainly wouldn't be on the short term.

[HinnyHoosier]

Odds are a coaching change brings an immediate worse in the short term.  Likely will see some transfers and I believe we only have one recruit coming in who likely isn't going to provide an immediate impact.  But if we make a change, the focus certainly wouldn't be on the short term.

I agree and would expect that too, unless they have someone lined up that’s considered a home run (but I won’t digress into that specific conversation in this thread). I guess what I’m saying is, is there a realistic candidate, in this moment, that we can confidently hire and start seeing a return on investment in say, 2-3 years? Is that person attainable right now? Only the powers that be have an insight there.

If that person isn’t in the picture in the next few months, I’d say we’re better off holding steady rather than panic-hiring a guy that “might” get it done at this level, thus re-washing the same load of laundry for another 4-5 years and losing out on said candidate during that span.


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[MemphisHoosier]

7 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

 

I agree and would expect that too, unless they have someone lined up that’s considered a home run (but I won’t digress into that specific conversation in this thread). I guess what I’m saying is, is there a realistic candidate, in this moment, that we can confidently hire and start seeing a return on investment in say, 2-3 years? Is that person attainable right now? Only the powers that be have an insight there.

If that person isn’t in the picture in the next few months, I’d say we’re better off holding steady rather than panic-hiring a guy that “might” get it done at this level, thus re-washing the same load of laundry for another 4-5 years and losing out on said candidate during that span.


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Agree, it's fascinating to look back at recent panic searches & hires at traditional top programs.  UCLA's 2019 search was widely mocked by the national pundits prior to the school hiring Mick Cronin, fun refresher if you are curious https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/ucla-did-everything-wrong-before-hiring-mick-cronin-still-got-it-right/1kwku8qnedfti1wvkeg0w1kjxh.  After an initial bumpy road, Mick has worked out 'ok' and he is starting to make in-rounds recruiting at the elite 5* level.  I'm sure the UCLA fan-base wants more, but I would gladly take a 17-6 overall record, being at the top of conference at 13-4 (I know, I know the Pac 12 is sh*t), and securely in the tourney at this point.

Long story short, I think you can still find a good, if not great coach for your program even if the process is sub-optimal or if you don't land your Brad Stevens.

[MikeRoberts]

There is no sure fire home run, zero.

was Holtmann, Howard, Underwood looked at as homerun hires when they were made? Maybe a few people felt that way but it wasn’t a “woah! Amazing hire by most, just solid”, not all that different than when we hired Archie. All 3 are now at the top of the conference and fighting for a 1 seed in the tourney.

there are probably 20 coaches out there that could get us on the right track quickly, back in the tourney every year and it’s just a matter of what seed vs “will we make it?”

we just need our administration to figure out who those are and who is not a good fit. There are a lot of options, some will work, some will not

[MikeRoberts]

49 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Odds are a coaching change brings an immediate worse in the short term.  Likely will see some transfers and I believe we only have one recruit coming in who likely isn't going to provide an immediate impact.  But if we make a change, the focus certainly wouldn't be on the short term.

Worse that 12-12 and a losing record in conference? I don’t think so

[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Worse that 12-12 and a losing record in conference? I don’t think so

It depends how much of the roster could be retained 

[MikeRoberts]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

It depends how much of the roster could be retained 

Also depends on how much of the roster you’d want to retain.

any good coach is going to keep the roster in tact. Any good coach is going to bring in immediate transfers and fill holes and use all of our scholarships 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

There is no sure fire home run, zero.
was Holtmann, Howard, Underwood looked at as homerun hires when they were made? Maybe a few people felt that way but it wasn’t a “woah! Amazing hire by most, just solid”, not all that different than when we hired Archie. All 3 are now at the top of the conference and fighting for a 1 seed in the tourney.
there are probably 20 coaches out there that could get us on the right track quickly, back in the tourney every year and it’s just a matter of what seed vs “will we make it?”
we just need our administration to figure out who those are and who is not a good fit. There are a lot of options, some will work, some will not

Well said

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[HoosierRobbie]

It depends how much of the roster could be retained 

If Archie is fired, then Kenya hunter is gone as well, so then we would lose Parker Stewart. All in all I’d still fire Archie.


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[HinnyHoosier]

Agree, it's fascinating to look back at recent panic searches & hires at traditional top programs.  UCLA's 2019 search was widely mocked by the national pundits prior to the school hiring Mick Cronin, fun refresher if you are curious https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/ucla-did-everything-wrong-before-hiring-mick-cronin-still-got-it-right/1kwku8qnedfti1wvkeg0w1kjxh.  After an initial bumpy road, Mick has worked out 'ok' and he is starting to make in-rounds recruiting at the elite 5* level.  I'm sure the UCLA fan-base wants more, but I would gladly take a 17-6 overall record, being at the top of conference at 13-4 (I know, I know the Pac 12 is sh*t), and securely in the tourney at this point.
Long story short, I think you can still find a good, if not great coach for your program even if the process is sub-optimal or if you don't land your Brad Stevens.

I like that example. Mick did have a pretty solid history behind him with Cincinnati, and while Archie did some good things at Dayton I would easily have taken Mick’s body of work over his. Shoot, I would take Cronin tomorrow; he’s proven. It doesn’t have to be a guy with umpteen final fours, top 3 recruiting classes, etc. High level experience and consistent winning. Get a guy like that, give him the resources. Who that is right now, I don’t have many confident guesses. The allure we may have to coaches, probably like we had when Archie accepted the job, is the chance to be the guy who resurrected Indiana basketball. I hope players feel the same. Maybe a big reason why he took the UCLA job.


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