Archie Miller: An Assessment

[iu eyedoc 1,849]

OK, I am a 1990/93 grad so not completely unbiased, but I really don't live and die by their play so I think I can add some prospective outside of the lovers and haters.

What I like:

He seems to be genuine.

I think he knows what he needs from players to win at an Iowa type level.

He understands the need to recruit the state.

What I don't like:

He allows undisciplined play ( Devonte Green every single game)

He has not locked down the state.

Th talent he was given and what he has  recruited are capable of .500 plus BT  play, yet they have not produced.

 

 

Miller as IU's HC, personally am undecided. Archie seems capable of big things, but  hasn't quite gotten there. The thing that bothers me most is this team being out hustled, them being soft and the complete lack of leadership. Could you name a team leader of the starting five? It should be Phinisee, but he doesn't seem to want to take that role and is there a softer starting five than, Phinisee, Smith, TJD, Durham, and Brunk?

I imagine Miller gets another year, which he deserves, but I just don't see the returning or incoming players making this a team that is worth following for a full season with any true aspirations of even better than averageness

.

[Old Friend 8,389]

Archie will get another year.  New AD, likely new president, and anyone who's responsible for those decisions will let HIS recruits become upper classmen.   Glass won't fire him, nor will any new AD.   Not yet, anyway.   And if it's Chris Reynolds or Scott Dolson, they won't feel the need to....but both will keep a keen eye on the pulse of things.

Today's defense was horrendous.  The effort and execution on that end were about as bad as I can remember this season.  Seriously...how many times are you going to guard a high ball screen with a hard hedge with a slow guy (Davis or Brunk), then allow a slip to the unprotected rim?   No help, horrible rotations, no talk....and seemingly no learning.   I also don't understand the philosophy of making Brunk your offensive go to early.  If HE's your primary post, TJD has a long way to go before even considering the NBA as an option.   What did Brunk take, 6 of our first 10 shots or something?

Some of that is on the players.  Some on coaches.  I'm starting to question players I had faith in earlier this fall.  That said, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to coach a kid like Green.  From what he did on Thursday to a 1 for 7 performance....and that's his pattern.  That's maddening.  I was unimpressed with everyone but Durham.  I know DDavis had some points, but how in the hell does Indiana get out rebounded 37-21?  (Brunk and DDavis 3 rebounds between them in 35 minutes)  How does Indiana assist on only 7 of 28 made FG's?   Are we all of a sudden an iso team with not enough players who can iso or create?   How does Indiana have only 7 TO's and manage to lose by 24?  The shooting is another issue, and it's so bad it's embarrassing.  I know one former walk on who would be - by FAR - the best shooter on this team, and it's a complete no contest. Good Lord, can we find a kid on this team who can consistently make shots?

This entire team is mercurial, and it's getting tired.  Archie isn't going anywhere yet, however he had better figure out a way to get these kids to buy in, or he'll be on a very hot seat a year from now.  I still say a whole lot of this is on the players.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,943]

Archie will get another year.  New AD, likely new president, and anyone who's responsible for those decisions will let HIS recruits become upper classmen.   Glass won't fire him, nor will any new AD.   Not yet, anyway.   And if it's Chris Reynolds or Scott Dolson, they won't feel the need to....but both will keep a keen eye on the pulse of things.
Today's defense was horrendous.  The effort and execution on that end were about as bad as I can remember this season.  Seriously...how many times are you going to guard a high ball screen with a hard hedge with a slow guy (Davis or Brunk), then allow a slip to the unprotected rim?   No help, horrible rotations, no talk....and seemingly no learning.   I also don't understand the philosophy of making Brunk your offensive go to early.  If HE's your primary post, TJD has a long way to go before even considering the NBA as an option.   What did Brunk take, 6 of our first 10 shots or something?
Some of that is on the players.  Some on coaches.  I'm starting to question players I had faith in earlier this fall.  That said, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to coach a kid like Green.  From what he did on Thursday to a 1 for 7 performance....and that's his pattern.  That's maddening.  I was unimpressed with everyone but Durham.  I know DDavis had some points, but how in the hell does Indiana get out rebounded 37-21?  (Brunk and DDavis 3 rebounds between them in 35 minutes)  How does Indiana assist on only 7 of 28 made FG's?   Are we all of a sudden an iso team with not enough players who can iso or create?   How does Indiana have only 7 TO's and manage to lose by 24?  The shooting is another issue, and it's so bad it's embarrassing.  I know one former walk on who would be - by FAR - the best shooter on this team, and it's a complete no contest. Good Lord, can we find a kid on this team who can consistently make shots?
This entire team is mercurial, and it's getting tired.  Archie isn't going anywhere yet, however he had better figure out a way to get these kids to buy in, or he'll be on a very hot seat a year from now.  I still say a whole lot of this is on the players.

Recruit soft, nice players, get those results.

I’ve been saying for a while I only want 1 guy from this team. And that guy didn’t show up today.

Sometimes the offense looks so robotic with nothing ever happening. The players don’t seem to have much ability to freelance or are unable to do so. No shot makers is a part of it. No good drivers.

Despite the record this is one of my least favorite Indiana rosters ever. Aside from TJD, I don’t look forward to anyone coming back next year. That’s a problem.



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[Magnanimous 4,487]

12 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Archie will get another year.  New AD, likely new president, and anyone who's responsible for those decisions will let HIS recruits become upper classmen.   Glass won't fire him, nor will any new AD.   Not yet, anyway.   And if it's Chris Reynolds or Scott Dolson, they won't feel the need to....but both will keep a keen eye on the pulse of things.

Today's defense was horrendous.  The effort and execution on that end were about as bad as I can remember this season.  Seriously...how many times are you going to guard a high ball screen with a hard hedge with a slow guy (Davis or Brunk), then allow a slip to the unprotected rim?   No help, horrible rotations, no talk....and seemingly no learning.   I also don't understand the philosophy of making Brunk your offensive go to early.  If HE's your primary post, TJD has a long way to go before even considering the NBA as an option.   What did Brunk take, 6 of our first 10 shots or something?

Some of that is on the players.  Some on coaches.  I'm starting to question players I had faith in earlier this fall.  That said, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to coach a kid like Green.  From what he did on Thursday to a 1 for 7 performance....and that's his pattern.  That's maddening.  I was unimpressed with everyone but Durham.  I know DDavis had some points, but how in the hell does Indiana get out rebounded 37-21?  (Brunk and DDavis 3 rebounds between them in 35 minutes)  How does Indiana assist on only 7 of 28 made FG's?   Are we all of a sudden an iso team with not enough players who can iso or create?   How does Indiana have only 7 TO's and manage to lose by 24?  The shooting is another issue, and it's so bad it's embarrassing.  I know one former walk on who would be - by FAR - the best shooter on this team, and it's a complete no contest. Good Lord, can we find a kid on this team who can consistently make shots?

This entire team is mercurial, and it's getting tired.  Archie isn't going anywhere yet, however he had better figure out a way to get these kids to buy in, or he'll be on a very hot seat a year from now.  I still say a whole lot of this is on the players.

If he doesn’t address the shooting in the off-season then he is looking to get canned. A rotation of Phinisee, Hunter, TJD, Brunk, Franklin, Durham, Thompson and (maybe) Smith is enough of a foundation. Get a couple of Zeislofts, one of whom can also play point ala Hulls, and there will be plenty enough talent to be competitive. I’m not even counting on any of the possible production we may get from the incoming freshmen. Rob also needs to step up and become the leader of this team. Mix up the assistants where it’s needed and be flexible with what you want to work and what you need to work philosophically. And lastly, Archie needs to act like he wants to be here and is the face of this program and therefore the face of the university. No more half-assed press conferences, no more being a low key figure at publicity events, and no more cow-tailing to the administrators and the players/parents.

[Hoosierfan2017 20,876]

I wouldn't say he hasn't locked down the state. He's done about as well at that as you could expect from a coach in Indiana in today's game. Back to back Mr. Basketballs, with another one this year probably. It just hasn't really mattered in the court.

[RaceToTheTop 24,940]

13 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I wouldn't say he hasn't locked down the state. He's done about as well at that as you could expect from a coach in Indiana in today's game. Back to back Mr. Basketballs, with another one this year probably. It just hasn't really mattered in the court.

I'd say he has done an adequate job of in state recruiting.  Missed Keion Brooks which has been the one that got away that we thought we had.  What he hasn't done is get the players around them necessary.

[RaceToTheTop 24,940]

BTW, does OP want an biased opinions or unbiased ones?

[8bucks 6,347]

We have three more home games. Archie can not afford to lose Assembly Hall. He seems to have lost most of his support on here - either you want him gone or you admit he will likely start next year on the hot seat.

 

So we have the PU debacle, today’s game and if we lose or look bad against Minny then you have the potential for a very volatile Assembly Hall.

 

We play poorly against PSU at home and he loses Assembly Hall he could be in trouble this year.

 

An Empty Assembly Hall with those there booing you won’t help your cause for coming back.

 

 

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[HoosierFan1994 4,714]

I really don't have a lot of positives to say about Archie right now. He has had a total of 7 in-state recuits commit to playing for him. That might be it. Archie is all bark no bite. He promises that changes are coming...nothing happens. It's the same crap over and over again. He holds nobody accountable. Players can do whatever the F they want. That was one of the worst performances of the Archie era and that is saying something. Really, what is the difference between year 1 and year 3? I was at the Indiana State game in 2017. Same crap. This is not an NCAA Tournament team. Go watch a team like Auburn-hell, even Penn State play. There is such a huge gap between this team and the really good ones. 

The blame falls on Fred Glass too. He 1) Extended Crean after one good season and 2) Let our programs APR suffer under Crean. Archie had it tough coming in but there are no excuses by now. Even the Crean guys have been under Archie for 3 years now. He doesn't have to play those guys. Indiana better watch it. They are losing a generation of fans. Purdue and Butler are currently better than this sh!t show of a program. Fans near New Albany root will root for Louisville and fans up north have their choice of Purdue or Michigan. The thing is, outside of TJD I'm not excited about this roster. Justin and Al are who they are right now. Role players playing way too much. Rob Phinisee has regressed. I don't know if it's the injury or what. Brunk is extremely limited and he too plays way too much. Miller will get a year four unless it really hits the fan (which it might). He better get some help in the grad transfer market. It is almost like when Crean got Zeller or Bryant. IU needs another difference maker. 

One last thing...I went to Archies press conference in March of 2017. I'll never forget seeing the players walk out of the tunnell to their seats. They looked like zombies. None of them looked excited at all about the new coach. Granted, Devonte and De'Ron were the only current players there. But still, this team just doesn't respond to him. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,612]

i have to disagree. i think the one thing made obvious this season is the lack of talent on this roster. i do agree this team needs more cow tailing

Just because you lack talent doesn’t mean you can’t play hard. Archie can’t get these guys to do it consistently.


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[MikeRoberts 6,920]

Just because you lack talent doesn’t mean you can’t play hard. Archie can’t get these guys to do it consistently.

 

 

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And the lack of talent is on Archie. His recruits sans TJD aren’t great and why leave two open scholarships as if we were good to go?

 

 

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[Alford Bailey 12,350]

13 hours ago, 8bucks said:

We have three more home games. Archie can not afford to lose Assembly Hall. He seems to have lost most of his support on here - either you want him gone or you admit he will likely start next year on the hot seat.

 

So we have the PU debacle, today’s game and if we lose or look bad against Minny then you have the potential for a very volatile Assembly Hall.

 

We play poorly against PSU at home and he loses Assembly Hall he could be in trouble this year.

 

An Empty Assembly Hall with those there booing you won’t help your cause for coming back.

 

 

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We still have a 30 point beat down to take at Mackey

[Brass Cannon 24,232]

Does anybody really expect us to win the 3 home games?  Is anybody willing to even predict 2 wins?

[pumpfake 3,930]

8 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

And the lack of talent is on Archie. His recruits sans TJD aren’t great and why leave two open scholarships as if we were good to go?

 

 

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IMO, everything regarding the roster and on-court product is HIS responsibility.  Sure, the Crean players and recruits probably wouldn't have been Archie recruits and I don't consider them to be great players by any stretch, but he plays them for a reason and that is they are as good or better than anyone else he has.  The offense is disorganized and hard to watch.  The defense doesn't appear to be compatible with the players on the roster and gives up a lot of open looks.  Frequently the team is out-hustled. Terrible shooters dominate the roster (3-pt, FT, can't finish).

Honestly, the areas of failure span the entire report card - there's just too many things to have confidence that things will improve appreciably.  Sadly, the only passing grades would be in the area of off-court behavior and academics.

Given the circumstances, CAM and his staff had 3 routes to success:

1. Teach the current players to play a system and play it well, including the areas of decision making and motivation.  i.e. "coach em up".

2. Recruit the kind of players that can do the things required, and do them well.  Whoever, and how many are needed to have a winning team.

3. Modify his offensive and defensive systems to suit the existing players and/or the recruits he does successfully bring in.

Sadly and honestly, I have to say that we're 0-3 at this point with no clear path to achieving any of them in the near future.

[cthomas 6,315]

20 minutes ago, pumpfake said:

3. Modify his offensive and defensive systems to suit the existing players and/or the recruits he does successfully bring in.

This is the one that bothers me the most and a reason I'm not enthusiastic about "system" coaches. The hedging out on the court when our personnel aren't capable of doing it is frustrating. I haven't seen the flexibility of approach that I think is necessary to win games. Very disappointing.

[pumpfake 3,930]

19 minutes ago, cthomas said:

This is the one that bothers me the most and a reason I'm not enthusiastic about "system" coaches. The hedging out on the court when our personnel aren't capable of doing it is frustrating. I haven't seen the flexibility of approach that I think is necessary to win games. Very disappointing.

I agree.  I would guess playing some form of traditional defense and offense would be easier for existing/new players to adapt to and play well.  In the CTC era our defense was poor and I wasn't crazy about the offense (but it was successful much of the time).  Under CAM the defense has certainly improved, at least statistically, but isn't great and seems to have plateaued at "average-to good".

[ap2345 7,571]

This is the one that bothers me the most and a reason I'm not enthusiastic about "system" coaches. The hedging out on the court when our personnel aren't capable of doing it is frustrating. I haven't seen the flexibility of approach that I think is necessary to win games. Very disappointing.

You have to hedge like that at times but you also need to be able to guard ball screens 4 or 5 different ways and IU doesn’t.


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[Uspshoosier 45,044]

Archie Miller on his radio show, says the coaching staff is going to have to do things differently whenever they play Michigan again. Says there are certain things defensively they've realized they just can't do anymore


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,612]

Archie Miller on his radio show, says the coaching staff is going to have to do things differently whenever they play Michigan again. Says there are certain things defensively they've realized they just can't do anymore


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Man... sounds like something you should have realized a couple years ago... to do things differently.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 47,943]

Man... sounds like something you should have realized a couple years ago... to do things differently.


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He won’t. Then if they do, they will fail miserably at whatever they decide to do next.

Hard to win at chess when your pieces are incapable playing good basketball.


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