Negativity Thread

[Stuhoo]

13 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

They are real and they are spectacular


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Doc WayneFleek has vision as extraordinary as a young Teri Hatcher's ****?

Excellent.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

They are real and they are spectacular


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Seinfeld.


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[Adillac]

First of all...no, Terri they weren’t spectacular....

 

as for the basketball discussion, I concur with those who concur with me: Rob doesn’t seem like a good primary option for this team this year or going forward. I’ve had hopes that the performance last year @Illinois would be close to what we would get week to week from him but that hasn’t proven to be true. Kid can be rock solid at times, but he isn’t a particularly good shooter and he isn’t great at getting his own shot, and he hasn’t shown himself much as a leader from what I can tell. 
 

Franklin, Leal, Galloway, Lander is where my unrealistic expectations will now reside lol. 

[Old Friend]

Any point guard will look better with players around him who can spread the floor and make shots.   It's sort of unfair in my opinion to judge a point guard when his team is inconsistent and can't score.  You've all seen his (Rob's) opportunistic dribble penetration and he's good at that.   He's also good in transition; but when you don't GET in transition because some of your teammates jog or you struggle on the defensive glass (like last night), you limit what a point guard can do.

Archie doesn't run an isolation offense, and I have no idea why "creating your own shot" is a big deal.  Anyone see a college offense where emphasis on "creating" has won anything?  Ever?   Rob's also our best (and a pretty good) on ball defender.  I think injuries have hurt him.  No question.   I also understand the frustration with him.  What I do not understand is the disappointment in his production as a shooter or creator because that's never been what he is.  I can think of at least 5 open shots off his passes that were missed last night (same can be said for Green, Durham, Franklin, and about anybody), but when the team shoots 25% from the floor, John Stockton's numbers would be awful.  The fact is, he's shooting 34% from the 3 point line.  Green shooting 30% from there.  Durham 33%.    

I've been on the "give it another year" bandwagon, and I'm staying on it.  I think this team will benefit greatly from "addition by subtraction."

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Any point guard will look better with players around him who can spread the floor and make shots.   It's sort of unfair in my opinion to judge a point guard when his team is inconsistent and can't score.  You've all seen his (Rob's) opportunistic dribble penetration and he's good at that.   He's also good in transition; but when you don't GET in transition because some of your teammates jog or you struggle on the defensive glass (like last night), you limit what a point guard can do.
Archie doesn't run an isolation offense, and I have no idea why "creating your own shot" is a big deal.  Anyone see a college offense where emphasis on "creating" has won anything?  Ever?   Rob's also our best (and a pretty good) on ball defender.  I think injuries have hurt him.  No question.   I also understand the frustration with him.  What I do not understand is the disappointment in his production as a shooter or creator because that's never been what he is.  I can think of at least 5 open shots off his passes that were missed last night (same can be said for Green, Durham, Franklin, and about anybody), but when the team shoots 25% from the floor, John Stockton's numbers would be awful.  The fact is, he's shooting 34% from the 3 point line.  Green shooting 30% from there.  Durham 33%.    
I've been on the "give it another year" bandwagon, and I'm staying on it.  I think this team will benefit greatly from "addition by subtraction."

Well let’s see about some of the best players IU has had recently... Yogi could create his own shot. He was pretty good and we were good with him. Troy Williams could. James Blackmon could. Robert Johnson could. Cody Zeller, Victor Oladipo, Jordy Hulls, Verdell Jones, Eric Gordon, DJ White, Jared Jeffries, AJ Guyton, Calbert Chaney, Damon Bailey, Steve Alford, Isaiah Thomas... so yea... creating for yourself and others is a pretty good quality. Rob is like 1/3 the player Yogi was. And that’s what we are getting. Average and a backup.


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[Stuhoo]

11 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Well let’s see about some of the best players IU has had recently... Yogi could create his own shot. He was pretty good and we were good with him. Troy Williams could. James Blackmon could. Robert Johnson could. Cody Zeller, Victor Oladipo, Jordy Hulls, Verdell Jones, Eric Gordon, DJ White, Jared Jeffries, AJ Guyton, Calbert Chaney, Damon Bailey, Steve Alford, Isaiah Thomas... so yea... creating for yourself and others is a pretty good quality. Rob is like 1/3 the player Yogi was. And that’s what we are getting. Average and a backup.


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Oh good grief: IMO you're trashing any credibility you might have had by citing the entirety of this list. Verdell Jones and Troy Williams could create their own shots? Yes, much in the same way that Devonte Green can - with lower than hoped for efficiency.

Jordan Hulls, Robert Johnson, Damon Bailey could create their own shots? Wonderful players at IU, but no, this was certainly not their strength.

Steve Alford had an entire offense designed around others setting screens for him. Alford was a great scorer at IU, but to say that he was an NBA-style 'clear out for him' guy is either disingenuous or evidence that you were not yet watching during the Alford era. 

In fact, in the entire Bob Knight era, there was pretty much zero "creating your own shot." There was a whole lot of screening off-ball and cutting off of those teammate screens for passes.

 

[Golfman25]

18 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

 

In fact, in the entire Bob Knight era, there was pretty much zero "creating your own shot." There was a whole lot of screening off-ball and cutting off of those teammate screens for passes.

 

And man it was fun to watch.  

[mdn82]

Well let’s see about some of the best players IU has had recently... Yogi could create his own shot. He was pretty good and we were good with him. Troy Williams could. James Blackmon could. Robert Johnson could. Cody Zeller, Victor Oladipo, Jordy Hulls, Verdell Jones, Eric Gordon, DJ White, Jared Jeffries, AJ Guyton, Calbert Chaney, Damon Bailey, Steve Alford, Isaiah Thomas... so yea... creating for yourself and others is a pretty good quality. Rob is like 1/3 the player Yogi was. And that’s what we are getting. Average and a backup.


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Interesting perception.


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[Chris007]

1 minute ago, mdn82 said:

Interesting perception.


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Laughable. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

 
Oh good grief: IMO you're trashing any credibility you might have had by citing the entirety of this list. Verdell Jones and Troy Williams could create their own shots? Yes, much in the same way that Devonte Green can - with lower than hoped for efficiency.
Jordan Hulls, Robert Johnson, Damon Bailey could create their own shots? Wonderful players at IU, but no, this was certainly not their strength.
Steve Alford had an entire offense designed around others setting screens for him. Alford was a great scorer at IU, but to say that he was an NBA-style 'clear out for him' guy is either disingenuous or evidence that you were not yet watching during the Alford era. 
In fact, in the entire Bob Knight era, there was pretty much zero "creating your own shot." There was a whole lot of screening off-ball and cutting off of those teammate screens for passes.
 

Yes, Verdell could in fact create for himself and he had the best mid range pull up of any player at IU since then. Couldn’t hit 3’s but could hit a 17 footer. Hulls could create as well, whether it were for himself or others. And creating isn’t just with the ball, sometimes you have to create things off the ball and Hulls did that a lot. Rob doesn’t create often at all. He does some dribbling.


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[finky]

11 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Not really. It’s like Smith leaves so we will lose our best perimeter defender. If Lander doesn’t come next season then we are down to just Rob as the only ball handler on the team. Archie has yet to prove that anyone can develop under him over a summer. Also likely we play the same terrible offense next season. So even if Lander does come, he will have no room because we still won’t have shooters and he still won’t have driving lanes to get to the basket. It’ll be more of the same.


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The best news I've heard all day.......Smith is going to leave?  Can he take the coach and well everyone but Trayce with him?   Zander would get bad advice to reclassify and come to IU next year.  WHat is he going to do, make great passes to his teammates who will miss wide open jumpers by about three Counties?  The lane will be packed and teams will laugh and just dare us to beat them with our 15% outside shooting.  Zander should see if any of the current cast can get a shot this summer or if the Freshman coming in can shoot.  Player development seems to not be a priority for Miller and he has yet to show he is capable of recruiting a player who can score at the College level 

 

******Lander    lol

[mdn82]

The best news I've heard all day.......Smith is going to leave?  Can he take the coach and well everyone but Trayce with him?   Zander would get bad advice to reclassify and come to IU next year.  WHat is he going to do, make great passes to his teammates who will miss wide open jumpers by about three Counties?  The lane will be packed and teams will laugh and just dare us to beat them with our 15% outside shooting.  Zander should see if any of the current cast can get a shot this summer or if the Freshman coming in can shoot.  Player development seems to not be a priority for Miller and he has yet to show he is capable of recruiting a player who can score at the College level 

Who is Zander?


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[IUc2016]

The best news I've heard all day.......Smith is going to leave?  Can he take the coach and well everyone but Trayce with him?   Zander would get bad advice to reclassify and come to IU next year.  WHat is he going to do, make great passes to his teammates who will miss wide open jumpers by about three Counties?  The lane will be packed and teams will laugh and just dare us to beat them with our 15% outside shooting.  Zander should see if any of the current cast can get a shot this summer or if the Freshman coming in can shoot.  Player development seems to not be a priority for Miller and he has yet to show he is capable of recruiting a player who can score at the College level 

Zander effin Diamont!? Hell yeah. He will beat Purdue that’s for sure




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[RaceToTheTop]

2 hours ago, mdn82 said:

Interesting perception.


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My favorite memories of IU basketball was watching Steve Alford break ankles.

[coonhounds]

Who is Zander?


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Hopefully another star recruit from the same guy who coached middle school Bob for 12 years. Hell yeah sign that dude up!

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[rcbowla]

Who is Zander?


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Diamont.....duhhh

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[mdn82]

Diamont.....duhhh

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If he can shoot I will take him!


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[mdn82]

My favorite memories of IU basketball was watching Steve Alford break ankles.

Can you imagine if Alford busted out a crossover into a pull-up? I think Knight would have thrown a basketball at him during the game. I don’t recall many players from my childhood “creating their own shot”. Bracey Wright was the first IU player I remember attempting it. It was never pretty.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Can you imagine if Alford busted out a crossover into a pull-up? I think Knight would have thrown a basketball at him during the game. I don’t recall many players from my childhood “creating their own shot”. Bracey Wright was the first IU player I remember attempting it. It was never pretty.


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Wright was pretty good. A bit full of himself but those were some teams with a bad coach.


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[RaceToTheTop]

7 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Completely disagree with the premise that Rob Phinisee and Josh Newkirk are in any way similar players. 

 

They aren’t when you consider defense.  But I’ll have to agree with Chicken Sandwich on this one.  Two years in I would consider him a subpar Big Ten starting point guard.  He hasn’t shot well, doesn’t score much, and two years in he’s a 3 assist per game guy.  His turnovers are up this year as well.