So can we talk about player development?

[Brass Cannon]

Or lack there of. By my count we have had at least 10 players who have played multiple seasons under Archie. 
 

And other than Morgan, I’m struggling to think of a single one that played more consistent smarter basketball the longer they played under Archie. 
 

Rob our diamond from last year looks to have taken a huge step back. Race is still not ready fo be a main contributor despite spending 2 years with the staff. Damezi still inconsistent and looks to be a bench player at best. Green is green Al is disappointing on number of levels. Smith might be the closest thing to a player on the current roster that has improved and his performance is still tied to his emotions on the particular day 

[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Or lack there of. By my count we have had at least 10 players who have played multiple seasons under Archie. 
 

And other than Morgan, I’m struggling to think of a single one that played more consistent smarter basketball the longer they played under Archie. 
 

Rob our diamond from last year looks to have taken a huge step back. Race is still not ready fo be a main contributor despite spending 2 years with the staff. Damezi still inconsistent and looks to be a bench player at best. Green is green Al is disappointing on number of levels. Smith might be the closest thing to a player on the current roster that has improved and his performance is still tied to his emotions on the particular day 

 

Excellent discussion point...generally disagree with your conclusion:

1. Damezi - so, so much better, even if he's not there yet.
2. Brunk - much better defender and rebounder than he ever was at Butler
3. Justin: Consistent contributor who sticks to what he's good at and doesn't overextend into what he cannot do well
4. TJD: The (slight) knock on him in high school was that he was inconsistent with effort, and lacked a little top-level strength. He has shown none of those flaws 

That's four of eleven on the roster, but with Jerome, Armaan, and Race essential in their first year of actual playing time, and with DeRon broken, it's really four of seven who have shown significant development. Only Al, DeVonte, and Rob arguably haven't significantly developed.

 

 

[Brass Cannon]

6 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Excellent discussion point...generally disagree with your conclusion:

1. Damezi - so, so much better, even if he's not there yet.
2. Brunk - much better defender and rebounder than he ever was at Butler
3. Justin: Consistent contributor who sticks to what he's good at and doesn't overextend into what he cannot do well
4. TJD: The (slight) knock on him in high school was that he was inconsistent with effort, and lacked a little top-level strength. He has shown none of those flaws 

That's four of eleven on the roster, but with Jerome, Armaan, and Race essential in their first year of actual playing time, and with DeRon broken, it's really four of seven who have shown significant development. Only Al, DeVonte, and Rob arguably haven't significantly developed.

 

 

I don’t feel comfortable including Brunk and TJD. It’s their first year. Need to see if they get better in year 2. 
 

Damezi might be better didn’t say he wasn’t  but at this pace his eligibility will expire before he can be more than a bench player. 
 

And like I said Justin might be the one as I said but reminds me more of a sophomore. I would expect a junior to be more consistent.  

[southernindianahoosier2]

Indiana started the season 35th in Kenpom and now sit at 40th. Not seeing much development or progress this season. 

[Stuhoo]

7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

 

Damezi might be better didn’t say he wasn’t  but at this pace his eligibility will expire before he can be more than a bench player. 
 

 

 

Yup...this; hey, not everyone will be a essential player! I'm not seeing the intuitive traits from him.

Rob, Jerome, and Armaan are gonna be just fine though.

 

[MikeRoberts]

I don’t feel comfortable including Brunk and TJD. It’s their first year. Need to see if they get better in year 2. 
 
Damezi might be better didn’t say he wasn’t  but at this pace his eligibility will expire before he can be more than a bench player. 
 
And like I said Justin might be the one as I said but reminds me more of a sophomore. I would expect a junior to be more consistent.  

Agree - the improvement from Damezi went from can’t catch to can catch from year 1 to 2. Not sure we will ever see the amount of improvement needed for him to be what we need


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[SlamaJamaSisley]

55 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I don’t feel comfortable including Brunk and TJD. It’s their first year. Need to see if they get better in year 2. 

Come on man!  ANY improvement is improvement.  Stuhoo gave a couple examples of improvement ALREADY happening and you don't want to count that?  It doesn't sound like you really want an answer to your question.  

[MikeRoberts]

Come on man!  ANY improvement is improvement.  Stuhoo gave a couple examples of improvement ALREADY happening and you don't want to count that?  It doesn't sound like you really want an answer to your question.  

TJD was a McDonalds All-American and has played like it from day one... im glad to see him living up to expectations, he has been the one bright spot for us


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[Brass Cannon]

So are we in agreement that our best examples of player development not tainted by Crean are Damezi and and Smith?  After 3 years?  Shut the program down. It will be less embarrassing that a fanbase that things this is acceptable. 

[Stuhoo]

23 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

So are we in agreement that our best examples of player development not tainted by Crean are Damezi and and Smith?  After 3 years?  Shut the program down. It will be less embarrassing that a fanbase that things this is acceptable. 

 

FWIW, I would venture a guess that Butler fans would barely recognize the current version of Joey Brunk. He's currently about double his per minute career Butler rebounding average, and seems to be trending even better as the competition toughens.

 

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

FWIW, I would venture a guess that Butler fans would barely recognize the current version of Joey Brunk. He's currently about double his per minute career Butler rebounding average, and seems to be trending even better as the competition toughens.

 

While I agree because of the change in system is it simply because he was playing out of system at Butler. 

[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

While I agree because of the change in system is it simply because he was playing out of system at Butler. 

 

Player development is very much about developing mindset, not just skill or athleticism.

Archie and staff have "developed" Joey Brunk into a banger in the post. They have not developed DeVonte Green into a guard that values possessions.

 

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Player development is very much about developing mindset, not just skill or athleticism.

Archie and staff have "developed" Joey Brunk into a banger in the post. They have not developed DeVonte Green into a guard that values possessions.

 

Did they develop Brunk or was that just what he was being misused at Butler. According to the Butler fans he was that being misused. 

[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Did they develop Brunk or was that just what he was being misused at Butler. According to the Butler fans he was that being misused. 

 

Semantics. He wasn't playing aggressively there. At IU he is.

 

[Brass Cannon]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

 

Semantics. He wasn't playing aggressively there. At IU he is.

 

Maybe. Even so. The only players that have seen real growth here are bigs  we need guard play.  If you don’t have guards you basically don’t have a team 

[JSHoosier]

I expected Phinisee to take a jump after how he looked last year when he was right.  I thought/hoped it may have been concussion related but not so much now.

[mdn82]

I expected Phinisee to take a jump after how he looked last year when he was right.  I thought/hoped it may have been concussion related but not so much now.

Me too. I really thought he could come back and be an honorable mention type of player. He played like a savvy vet for his first month last year. He has played like a scared freshman since. I really thought he would be our vocal leader this year as well.

 

 

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[Josh]

Smith is worlds better than when he started.  Archie has done a fantastic job with him.  The rest?  Meh.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

It’s awful. Like really really awful. Smith should be at least a 30% shooter from 3 by now after THREE SUMMERS under Archie.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

It’s awful. Like really really awful. Smith should be at least a 30% shooter from 3 by now after THREE SUMMERS under Archie.


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I’m convinced Smith will never be a good shooter. He knocks down the mid range with surprising frequency. And Dunks.

Layups, Free Throws, and 3 pointers are all rough. Because of this I feel like those mid range hits are just luck. Lol.

He is more locked in this year and playing smarter. I’ll give him credit for that.


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