So some concerns I’m having...

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Plenty of kids ranked outside the top 150 help programs win basketball games over a 4 year period. If a coach sees something in a player that he likes what’s it matter what his ranking is
Definitely the focus will be on higher ranked kids but there is just too many good players overall to limit to a specific ranking number. Jarrett Culver is one of my favorite players to watch this year for Texas Tech. 312th rated player last year. Kids a stud


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Bryce Alford was a 2 star and kid was pretty good. 

[Rico]

15 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

Creans problem was that he seem addicted to finding diamonds in the rough. It’s one thing to have just one in a recruiting class every year or every other year. But to throw multiples in classes. That can hurt a lot. We got Oladipo and Sheehey in one class. We also got Jeremiah April and Tim Priller in one.


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And we got "The Movement".

For all the negativity Crean gets about diamonds in the rough...he did get that much heralded class.  Thank God, Yogi was in it.  

[Rico]

1 minute ago, Joe DeLow said:

The movement sucked for sure. Jeremy could have been good but I don’t think he wanted to work. He showed flashes but never put anything together.


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Well the point is they were all highly touted recruits.  That goes to show you what ranking services are.

[schoosier]

Injuries to key players or key additions. Injuries to everyone else. Suspension of key returner and expected leader. Fitzner hasn’t contributed any. Arch is going to have to game plan and execute perfectly to win or just go the youth route and play Jake, Race, DA, and Moore looking ahead. I’m inclined to do the latter and sit Fitzner and McBob; Smith on a short leash and play the newcomers. 

[Rico]

4 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

Rankings are right for the most part. Crean just missed and/or misused what he got. Hollowell could have been a contributor but Crean wanted Watford 2.0 instead of Jeremy Hollowell. Ron Patterson never showed up. Peter Jurkin was never healthy. Hanner had stones for hands. Their development was mismanaged. I disciplined coach could have made Hollowell and Hanner into contributors. Going to Baylor probably would have been best for Hanner.


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So Crean mismanaged these guys?  Gimme a break.  

[JSHoosier]

35 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

Rankings are right for the most part. Crean just missed and/or misused what he got. Hollowell could have been a contributor but Crean wanted Watford 2.0 instead of Jeremy Hollowell. Ron Patterson never showed up. Peter Jurkin was never healthy. Hanner had stones for hands. Their development was mismanaged. I disciplined coach could have made Hollowell and Hanner into contributors. Going to Baylor probably would have been best for Hanner.


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I saw Perea play for LaLu.  His problem wasn't just hands, athleticism was the only thing he had.

[Rico]

4 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

He mismanaged a lot of things.


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"The Movement" was over rated by the system that was in place.  Wasn't Hanner a 5*?  Hollowell?  Patterson couldn't cut grades...how did he work out for a HoF coach at Syracuse?  And then we got Peter Jurkin.  

[Rico]

3 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I saw Perea play for LaLu.  His problem wasn't just hands, athleticism was the only thing he had.

LOL....I got a buddy that lives in LaPorte.  He went to some of Hanner's games.  Said he wasn't a basketball player.  That he was more suited to be a d-lineman in football.  

[JSHoosier]

5 minutes ago, Rico said:

LOL....I got a buddy that lives in LaPorte.  He went to some of Hanner's games.  Said he wasn't a basketball player.  That he was more suited to be a d-lineman in football.  

He wasn't a basketball player at all.  He'd sometimes flash athleticism but that was about it, he was lost.

[Rico]

6 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

He wasn't a basketball player at all.  He'd sometimes flash athleticism but that was about it, he was lost.

My buddy said he couldn't believe that IU recruited him.  Coming from an Illinois grad says something.  But those ranking services...and Hanner's ties to an IU alum.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

My buddy said he couldn't believe that IU recruited him.  Coming from an Illinois grad says something.  But those ranking services...and Hanner's ties to an IU alum.

The Movement was Crean’s shot at creating a top ranked “homegrown” class. It was his shot at locking down the borders.

Maybe the staff threw caution to the wind and went against better judgement? Other than Yogi, that class was the cultural cancer that took down Crean.

They were the start of the failed drug tests, legal issues, drinking issues, and general attitude issues. The players that followed were ones that related to and bonded with those guys. It created an environment where a really talented and hard working kid like Troy Williams who was also susceptible to poor decision making was constantly presented with one right decision and ten bad ones. Not an environment for success. Even someone of high character like Yogi fell into the trap more than once.

The opposite is why I believe what Archie is doing will work in the long run. You wonder if Archie continues to start McBob for reasons unrelated to on court performance. He was made captain for a reason as well. But once that culture is established, it becomes easier for everyone to make the right decisions. Those around them will present more right options than wrong ones. And the group will attract the kids who feel comfortable in that culture instead of one we saw under Crean. Instead of a cancer, we end up with a continuous cycle of growth and learning.


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[Rico]

7 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

The Movement was Crean’s shot at creating a top ranked “homegrown” class. It was his shot at locking down the borders.

Maybe the staff threw caution to the wind and went against better judgement? Other than Yogi, that class was the cultural cancer that took down Crean.

They were the start of the failed drug tests, legal issues, drinking issues, and general attitude issues. The players that followed were ones that related to and bonded with those guys. It created an environment where a really talented and hard working kid like Troy Williams who was also susceptible to poor decision making was constantly presented with one right decision and ten bad ones. Not an environment for success. Even someone of high character like Yogi fell into the trap more than once.

The opposite is why I believe what Archie is doing will work in the long run. You wonder if Archie continues to start McBob for reasons unrelated to on court performance. He was made captain for a reason as well. But once that culture is established, it becomes easier for everyone to make the right decisions. Those around them will present more right options than wrong ones. And the group will attract the kids who feel comfortable in that culture instead of one we saw under Crean. Instead of a cancer, we end up with a continuous cycle of growth and learning.


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That Sir, may very well be the greatest post I have ever read.  I loved it, spot on, and Thank you.

[schoosier]

31 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

The Movement was Crean’s shot at creating a top ranked “homegrown” class. It was his shot at locking down the borders. 

Maybe the staff threw caution to the wind and went against better judgement? Other than Yogi, that class was the cultural cancer that took down Crean

You need to look at who he didn’t get that year which explains a part of why is still isn’t here. Harris, McGary, DSR, Dunham were all studs out of Indiana Crean should have landed. The biggest reason he gone was he was a terrible in game coach. All the playbooks, coach speak, and flash cards couldn’t develop a consistent and big time winner. 

[HoosierAloha]

The Movement was Crean’s shot at creating a top ranked “homegrown” class. It was his shot at locking down the borders.

Maybe the staff threw caution to the wind and went against better judgement? Other than Yogi, that class was the cultural cancer that took down Crean.

They were the start of the failed drug tests, legal issues, drinking issues, and general attitude issues. The players that followed were ones that related to and bonded with those guys. It created an environment where a really talented and hard working kid like Troy Williams who was also susceptible to poor decision making was constantly presented with one right decision and ten bad ones. Not an environment for success. Even someone of high character like Yogi fell into the trap more than once.

The opposite is why I believe what Archie is doing will work in the long run. You wonder if Archie continues to start McBob for reasons unrelated to on court performance. He was made captain for a reason as well. But once that culture is established, it becomes easier for everyone to make the right decisions. Those around them will present more right options than wrong ones. And the group will attract the kids who feel comfortable in that culture instead of one we saw under Crean. Instead of a cancer, we end up with a continuous cycle of growth and learning.


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I tried touching on this with what I experienced in a work environment before but you stated it much better, well said. This is why I’m not as concerned as others.

When you have leaders (upperclassmen) who are getting in Cook Hall after hours to get better rather than getting into a bag to get high you’ll see better results. (No offense tiny!) When you have a majority of players who do the right thing it makes it easier to recruit players that are good kids and want to compete. You can also recruit that one talented player who might be susceptible knowing that the other players will look after him, in a good way.

This is where I feel Al will continue to develop and be an important piece moving forward. I don’t give a damn where he was ranked coming out of high school. He worked hard over the summer and fixed his shot. He has some fire and is willing to get better. I can see him being a contributor, even starting, on a Big Ten title contending team as a senior.




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[johnsoniu]

24 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 (No offense tiny!) 
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lol, none taken. There is a time and a place for everything.

[coonhounds]

Worst part of being a iu fan anymore is answering 50 times a day questions to why they suck. It gets old lol.

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[Bailey7878]

You need to look at who he didn’t get that year which explains a part of why is still isn’t here. Harris, McGary, DSR, Dunham were all studs out of Indiana Crean should have landed. The biggest reason he gone was he was a terrible in game coach. All the playbooks, coach speak, and flash cards couldn’t develop a consistent and big time winner. 

He took the other verbals so early he had grants left.
Jurkin ended up averaging like 2 points a game and middle tennessee or somewhere like that. That was a massive miss.

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[southernindianahoosier2]

4 hours ago, Bailey7878 said:

He took the other verbals so early he had grants left.
Jurkin ended up averaging like 2 points a game and middle tennessee or somewhere like that. That was a massive miss.

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lol Didn't Crean pull Matt Roth's Scholarship in favor of Jurkin? I was a senior at the time and thought it was dumb to pull Roth's Scholarship, but my friends insisted it would be better overall for the team to bring on a freshman that can contribute for four years than it was to waste it for one year on Roth.. Hindsight is 20/20 in his case. Would have loved his shooting against the Syracuse Zone. 

[Josh]

I wanted to respond to a couple things in this post, then move on if possible.  Yes, I was childishly digging at IU fans for thinking this path was a good one because we've recruited better zip codes.  That's a theme of most of this fanbase.  I do not understand how that was funneled down to me digging at one person alone.  Yes, he and I go back and forth, but this had nothing to do with him specifically.  It bothers me that it's perceived that way because I don't feel that I act that way.  He calls me a stalker, I promise that's a misuse.  He must have never had one because that's a heavy term.  We post on the same message board.  Of course we end up in the same threads.  Watch how this goes, he complains about me (and a few others) a lot more than I even mention him.  He's just a lot more vocal about it.

I'm frustrated at this team, this program.  I'm frustrated at this fanbase.  Losing 7 in a row with no evidence of competence does that to me.  I see nothing good in what we're doing.  But I also promise to keep that in this thread.  This board would be miserable if that leaked everywhere.

Nothing I say is to apply to any one poster.  If you feel it applies to your thoughts, I promise it wasn't specified to you alone.  Unless I use your name.  Go Hoosiers

[mdn82]

I tried touching on this with what I experienced in a work environment before but you stated it much better, well said. This is why I’m not as concerned as others.

When you have leaders (upperclassmen) who are getting in Cook Hall after hours to get better rather than getting into a bag to get high you’ll see better results. (No offense tiny!) When you have a majority of players who do the right thing it makes it easier to recruit players that are good kids and want to compete. You can also recruit that one talented player who might be susceptible knowing that the other players will look after him, in a good way.

This is where I feel Al will continue to develop and be an important piece moving forward. I don’t give a damn where he was ranked coming out of high school. He worked hard over the summer and fixed his shot. He has some fire and is willing to get better. I can see him being a contributor, even starting, on a Big Ten title contending team as a senior.




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The one thing about Al is I hope going forward he is more vocal and more assertive. We need energy and he is the one player in UM game in that small stretch where started going at others. We need someone to challenge them other than the coaches. Usually it’s your point guard or star player. We don’t have that luxury this year. No upper classmen will listen to a freshman in that regard.


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