IU vs MSU: 9/22 7:30PM BTN

[Alford Bailey]

8 hours ago, Iugradman said:

This was a winnable game. Poor playcalling, coaching, and stupid QB errors lost this game. Typical IU football. It is always something.

This program always craps the bed when the bright lights are on. It is a cultural thing from the president of the university on down.

#IU Football

[Alford Bailey]

It comes down to Minny, Rutgers and PU for possible wins. I think we get 2-3.

[OliviaPope40]

I was flipping the channel between this and the Cubs game last night.

[HoosierAloha]

We'll never win another football game, ever never. We didn't look great but the game was lost on a few plays.

- bad bounce off RBs hand that led to MSU TD

- fake FG for a TD

- having to sellout late and MSU with a long TD

We're not terrible but we still do IU football things.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, HoosierAloha said:

We'll never win another football game, ever never. We didn't look great but the game was lost on a few plays.

- bad bounce off RBs hand that led to MSU TD

- fake FG for a TD

- having to sellout late and MSU with a long TD

We're not terrible but we still do IU football things.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

Yep. A very well rounded blown game. 1 play on offense, defense and special teams

[TXHoosierDaddy]

21 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

We'll never win another football game, ever never. We didn't look great but the game was lost on a few plays.

- bad bounce off RBs hand that led to MSU TD

- fake FG for a TD

- having to sellout late and MSU with a long TD

We're not terrible but we still do IU football things.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

I would add that the offense looked inept for most of the game. Zero semblance of a running game. Our running back is an up the middle guy but wish we had tried off tackle a little more. The up the middle run was stufed all night. Wish we had taken a few more shots downfield. It was wide open the few times we tried it in the first half. Ramsey overshot which was actually encouraging. I'm just not a fan of Debord as we abandoned opening up the field or trying to until we were scrambling the last half of the 4Q. Btw we had no issue passing on them when we opened things up. Cleary MSU was better against the run. 

[mdn82]

Historic example of IU football over the years.  It's much less stressful to simply read about the games than to actually watch or listen to a radio broadcast.  Seen this movie way too many times that I can recite the diaglogue.

Honestly much like I put in the prediction that I have seen this song and dance too many times. Still pisses you off. I thought for the most part our defense did its job. Offensively we screwed the pooch. I don’t know how many 2nd and shorts we ran right up the gut only to get stuffed but it seemed like every drive from the stands.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[TXHoosierDaddy]

This is the same thing as last year. I really think our defense can be good enough to get us 8-9 wins but our offense will just be way too inconsistent for that to happen. We could use an upgrade at QB and  offensive coordinator. The OL is okay. Wide receivers are above average. Not sure we have a TE anymore. The RB game consists of ground and pound up the middle.  Works against non-con opponents but in the BIG it won't. I hope Allen makes a change at OC in the off-season if what I saw last night continues. 

[Brass Cannon]

12 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Honestly much like I put in the prediction that I have seen this song and dance too many times. Still pisses you off. I thought for the most part our defense did its job. Offensively we screwed the pooch. I don’t know how many 2nd and shorts we ran right up the gut only to get stuffed but it seemed like every drive from the stands.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

From the sounds of it need a new OC asap

[Hoosierfan2017]

I'm all aboard the new offensive coordinator train. Very little creativity and a refusal to open up the field killed us. So did the offensive line. Ramsey had very little time to throw most plays. When we opened up the playbook and let Ramsey throw more than 5 yards it worked pretty well. The throw to Whop Philyor that Whop turned into a 65 yard touchdown was on the money. He hit him in stride and Whop turned on the jetsz Apparently that was the result of Ramsey changing the play at the line. Why the staff insists on dinking and dunking without even trying longer passes is beyond me. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

They spent all off season learning Ramsey strengths and weaknesses. The playcalling is tailored to those abilities. OC is doing what he can with the weapons he has.

We are definitely not a team built to play from behind.

Last night was exhibit A-Z of the importance of staying within a score or 10 of a team.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners

[GnarlyNormEllenberger]

I haven't posted much this year, but figured this might be a good time to start...

- Friends, you could see this one coming a mile away. And I am not talking about IU losing to MSU. I'm talking about fans upset/baffled that their team plays well one week and not so much the next. This isn't just an IU thing. This happens a LOT in college sports. Inconsistencies. Unless you are one of the 3-4 best teams in the nation, this happens. You play really well one week. You're feeling good. Then next week happens and you struggle. College football does not operate through the transitive property. Every week can be/usually is something different. One week does not define a team. But a series of games can. And what that has shown us is that IU is a 3-1 team. Not a great team. But not bad, either. Decent. Doubtful we contend for the Big Ten. Probable we can contend for a bowl.

- Now... back to the game (as Coach Knight would say.) Yes, I was disappointed. Particularly because MSU didn't play that well, IMO. That is, except their defensive front seven (more on that in a minute.) They turned it over 4 times. They struggled running the ball. Lewerke wasn't particularly sharp. If we played well, we could have won this one. But we didn't. So why didn't we play well?

- Let's start with the typical "bad break" for IU. The INT return for TD in the first quarter. Yes, we've seen this too many times before in our history... and it stinks! We were driving and that absolutely killed momentum. It put us behind the 8-ball early and we could never fully recover. Throw in a few other deals like the fake FG TD and those are plays we need to go our way in a game like this. They didn't and we lost by 14.

- We heard about how good their D-Line was. And they lived up to the hype. 4 sacks. 9 TFLs. Countless QB hurries. And they held us to 29 yards on 32 carries... that's a 0.9 avg. for those who are interested. Quote simply, our O-Line was thoroughly beaten. They played a bad game and that really hurt us. I saw some people say, "Welcome to the Big Ten, Stevie Scott." Well, yeah. But where was he supposed to go?  Just a tough night.

- Peyton Ramsey. Friends, he what he is. I said this last year against Michigan and MSU and I'll say it again this season. When he runs the offense, we rely on dinks and dunks. We just do. And against mediocre defenses, that may be enough to win. But against good defenses, we'll struggle to score points. As Wayne said above, the offense is tailored around his strengths. We rely on guys like Philyor, Timian, Harris and Taylor to catch short passes and create yards after catch. Notice how many targets they get compared to our outside receivers with Hale and Westbrook? Those are two great talents at WR, but we can't get them the ball. That's frustrating. Is that a QB problem? Maybe.

- Does that mean I was clamoring for Penix? Not exactly. He wouldn't have had time to throw. It's not like our O-Line was suddenly going to pass protect better for Penix. And I dunno if that would have been the best growing opportunity to throw Penix out there in that mess anyway. My hope is that I hope our O-Line gets back on the right track with pass protection (and run blocking) and that we start throwing the ball downfield a bit more. I'm not asking for 20+ yard throws. I''d just like to see a few more 10-15 yd. out routes to Hale and Westbrook. I don't feel they've been utilized well and they're legitimate weapons. Can Ramsey do that? Is Penix ready for it? Evidently, the answer was "no" last night.

- I really can't blame our defense. They kept it from getting ugly. Ball had himself a night before his ejection. They were getting some good pressure in the backfield. Had 4 takeaways. But again, we got beat on that last 75 yard run that sealed the game. Just tough. But all in all, I am still very impressed with Allen's defense. He knows how to coach it and with him in charge, we've seen three of the best defenses we've had in decades. I think some forget how impressive that is at IU.

- So where do we go from here? Thankfully, we get Rutgers next. Fortunately for us, they have looked downright pathetic this year. However, as fans of IU, we know that we can never take anyone for granted and we are capable of losing on any given night. BUT! I think/hope that the Hoosiers are going to have a mad/rejuvenating week of practice this week. I think you'll see us click and get back on the right track and come out of Piscataway with a win. While I don't believe our offense as-is can lead us to victories against Ohio State, Penn State or Michigan, I do believe we're capable of beating the likes of Minnesota, Maryland and Purdue. I think if our O-Line gels better the Iowa game is a possibility as well. Long story short... I still think 6-6 and a bowl game is entirely possible and we're right there in the thick of things. But for those expecting an 8-9 win season, I am afraid you're going to be disappointed. But that's just my opinion.

[JSHoosier]

My issue with saying Ramsey can't throw downfield is this:  he hit Philyor on the money 15 yards downfield on that TD and earlier in the game overthrew 2 receivers that were just as far or further.  We've seen this too many times to continue insisting he can't.  Is he great?  Far from it, but we have posters insisting he can only throw it 5 yards or less.  We've seen him get the ball downfield, yet we insist on limiting the playbook to short yardage plays; that is why I think the playcalling is making Ramsey look more limited than he is and that is on Debord.

[Alford Bailey]

QB play is limiting us big time. We make it so easy for a good defense.

[Alford Bailey]

1 minute ago, JSHoosier said:

My issue with saying Ramsey can't throw downfield is this:  he hit Philyor on the money 15 yards downfield on that TD and earlier in the overthrew 2 receivers that were just as far or further.  We've seen this too many times to continue insisting he can't.  Is he great?  Far from it, but we have posters insisting he can only throw it 5 yards or less.  We've seen him get the ball downfield, yet we insist on limiting the playbook to short yardage plays; that is why I think the playcalling is making Ramsey look more limited than he is and that is on Debord.

This staff leaves a lot to be desired. 

[HoosierAloha]

My issue with saying Ramsey can't throw downfield is this:  he hit Philyor on the money 15 yards downfield on that TD and earlier in the game overthrew 2 receivers that were just as far or further.  We've seen this too many times to continue insisting he can't.  Is he great?  Far from it, but we have posters insisting he can only throw it 5 yards or less.  We've seen him get the ball downfield, yet we insist on limiting the playbook to short yardage plays; that is why I think the playcalling is making Ramsey look more limited than he is and that is on Debord.

I believe part of this is coach Allen believing the defense can keep us in games as long as we don't turn it over. He's counting on a grind it out win instead of a track meet.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[Alford Bailey]

When the program is designed to go 6-6, collect BIG money and go to a low level bowl this is the result. You dont get something for nothing, The 8-9 wins talk was/is laughable,

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 hour ago, JSHoosier said:

My issue with saying Ramsey can't throw downfield is this:  he hit Philyor on the money 15 yards downfield on that TD and earlier in the game overthrew 2 receivers that were just as far or further.  We've seen this too many times to continue insisting he can't.  Is he great?  Far from it, but we have posters insisting he can only throw it 5 yards or less.  We've seen him get the ball downfield, yet we insist on limiting the playbook to short yardage plays; that is why I think the playcalling is making Ramsey look more limited than he is and that is on Debord.

It really doesn't make any sense to me. On his touchdown pass to Philyor he was at the 28 yard line when he threw it and Whop caught it at the 50 yard line. It was a terrific throw.

He doesn't have elite arm strength but he can make 15 to 20 yard passes. But, for whatever reason the staff insists on 5 yard pass after 5 yard pass. It's frustrating as hell. If the staff really thinks he can't throw more than 5 yards down the field what are they doing starting him? At least pretend like you want to move the ball downfield. What's there to lose? We're playing games we're not supposed to win anyway.

The biggest reason why I think it's a problem with DeBord and not Ramsey is that his running plays don't make any sense either. We had a 4th and inches and he puts Ramsey in the shotgun 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage. He's the kind of coordinator a program that doesn't want to spend money ends up with. 

[Old Friend]

1 hour ago, JSHoosier said:

My issue with saying Ramsey can't throw downfield is this:  he hit Philyor on the money 15 yards downfield on that TD and earlier in the game overthrew 2 receivers that were just as far or further.  We've seen this too many times to continue insisting he can't.  Is he great?  Far from it, but we have posters insisting he can only throw it 5 yards or less.  We've seen him get the ball downfield, yet we insist on limiting the playbook to short yardage plays; that is why I think the playcalling is making Ramsey look more limited than he is and that is on Debord.

He is inaccurate beyond 10 yards.  He overthrew receivers.  Yep.  He did.  Open ones.   He can throw it 35 yards or so, but he can't do so accurately.  Any objective viewer can easily see his limitations.  You watched the game, right?   I think it's funny that throwing an accurate ball 15 yards down field is an idea of his ability to throw the ball down the field.   DeBord is doing what he has to do with Ramsey.  When have we seen him get the ball down field with any accuracy?  Seriously...when?   And 15 yards barely counts.   I know of maybe 2 throws this season.  In 4 games.   He had a QBR of 28.5 yesterday.  Well below average.

Yesterday, we showed again a limited playbook specifically because Ramsey can't stretch the defense.  Everything was in front, and they were not going to allow us to run between the tackles.   They took everything away in the running game, and forced lateral plays relying on our speed.  Until they dropped into a softer zone late which allowed Philyor's long TD, Ramsey was averaging less than 5.2 yards per attempt and finished 5.9.  That's HORRIBLE.  (Lewerke averaged 8.5)   People have to be objective about him and understand teams like MSU can just take away the run game and they can say "same old IU" all they want to; but the biggest reason we struggled yesterday was our offense simply had no ability to get chunk plays without YAC.   That made it a grind it out kind of game when we couldn't make mistakes.   Well...we made mistakes and took away any chance we had to let our defense win it.   

Anyone blaming DeBord or play calling is simply taking the easy road.  Blaming the coaches always is.  DeBord set offensive records at Tennessee. You think he forgot how to call plays???  Seriously?   Or just maybe, that ability is limited right now.  Yeah, 2017, he made one good throw to Philyor against a soft zone when Philyor was wide open.  Talk to me about the throws he consistently misses.

[JSHoosier]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

I believe part of this is coach Allen believing the defense can keep us in games as long as we don't turn it over. He's counting on a grind it out win instead of a track meet.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

Doesn't have to be a track meet and Ramsey isn't the QB for that.  We don't have to be at either extreme though; expecting the defense to hold like that is asking a lot and I think we've seen the offense doesn't have to be as limited as it is even with Ramsey at QB.  I just want this OC to open the offense up more than the post-it note the playbook is currently on.

Run up the gut

Designed QB run

Option

Screen

Repeat in varying orders

We do not have close to a strong enough defense to rely on that and we've seen Ramsey make too many throws downfield to think that list is the only thing he's capable of.