(2019) CG Jahmius Ramsey

[Toothdr]

Wasn’t it Izzo that said only 20 % of the top 20 we’re doing it without cheating? I’m sure he put himself in the 20% category.


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[mdn82]

Wasn’t it Izzo that said only 20 % of the top 20 we’re doing it without cheating? I’m sure he put himself in the 20% category.


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I am sure he is. But I know for a fact Zac Randolph was paid. Dude had an Escalade with rims coming from a very poor family in Marion. If he didn’t get paid by MSU the other school was totally screwed.


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[Stromboli]

I get a little sick of the cheating issue.  I know it's happening, I just don't find it all that interesting.  The game would be better without it, but at the same time I do think these kids should be compensated for what they provide, just like any other entertainer that can fill a gymnasium, and secure multi-million television contracts and gambling fodder and merchandise sales.  Also, it makes March a whole lot more fun when Loyola-Chicago can charge through, or Butler, or George Mason, beating the larger programs.  And honestly, when our desperate fanbase starts whining about the cheaters, it makes us look a little pathetic.  

 

The other thing is people tend to lump all cheating into the same bucket.  The coach isn't writing checks from his University checkbook.  Except in the worst cases, he's not negotiating with shoe companies.  Pitino got caught because he's careless and arrogant, and frankly the money was too good for him personally.  I think the actual system is a little more nuanced than how it is discussed.  The smarter programs limit a head coach's exposure as much as possible, keeping plausible deniability and really just to make sure the program can keep its coach.  Money and favors change hands through cash transactions or in-kind goods and services coming from persons not connected to the university.  

 

Miles Bridges is from Flint, and went to MSU.  Did his family receive some kind of benefit?  Probably.  Was Izzo the guy arranging for this to occur?  Probably not.  Do I view Miles as a cheater, or somehow wish I could stop his family from receiving the money?  No way.  I'm guessing when someone inadvertently provides proof of this stuff to Izzo, he has to make some official and documented statement stating that he is against it and won't tolerate it, etc.  And this is known, so he's kept in the dark.  Did Drewfus buy Darius Garland a car?  Obviously not.  Did some wealthy family from Brentwood have a channel to get funds to Garland and his family?  Very likely so.  Has Louisville continued to get recruits after Pitino was fired?  Yep, because that framework is still in place.  

 

Of course the question is whether or not Indiana is involved in this.  From what I've learned Archie keeps his nose out of it.  And so Archie is not a cheater.  Do the players receive benefits from elsewhere?  Pretty naive to think otherwise.  I don't think Indiana is bad relative to the other programs, and I don't think any part of the coaching staff is connected to it.  I also don't think our failure to cheat is the reason for our middling success.  

[Hurryin' Hoosiers]

A free college education and access to top of the line facilities and trainers is worth a pretty penny.    As a parent of 3 kids, I could only hope one of them gets a free college education.

[Stromboli]

13 minutes ago, iuswingman said:

A free college education and access to top of the line facilities and trainers is worth a pretty penny.    As a parent of 3 kids, I could only hope one of them gets a free college education.

 

Peanuts compared to value they provide for the university.  These kids are getting swindled.  

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/college-basketball-player-value-2017-3

 

Edit:  From that link, each of our guys provided a value of $870,000 annually to the University.  D-1 average is $170,000 annually.

[ebridges24]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

That don’t have to be poor but the recent steady stream of 5 stars and higher 4 stars suggest he knows how to navigate the waters.

Brunson, Spellman, Quinerly, and even Swider who was recruited by the Who’s who of CBB?

But you are right, they could be doing it all semi legit, and I think they are relative to Kansas/Maryland bags of cash. But imo if you are getting 5 stars on the regular, you know what you are doing.

My MSU comparison may be off as well, because I’m not at all convinced that Izzo wasn’t doing true dirty recruiting.

Nowadays with agents and AAU it’s so easy to transfer money.


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Man, they can't be as bad as Maryland and Kansas. That's a serious accusation.....

[Hoosier Guy]

College football and basketball players should be paid. They make so much money for their respective universities. A free college education is nice. But as Stromboli said, it’s pennies to what they should get

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Man, they can't be as bad as Maryland and Kansas. That's a serious accusation.....

Apologies. Should be an “are not relative”.

You are 100% correct. Terrible typo.


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[biteoftheapple]

The big programs can afford to pay players certainly. But how do you pay bball and fiitball players and not have to pay every athlete in eveey sport. The veey small programs cannot pay. This would lead to even mors of a chasm among the haves and have nots.

[ap2345]

54 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

I am sure he is. But I know for a fact Zac Randolph was paid. Dude had an Escalade with rims coming from a very poor family in Marion. If he didn’t get paid by MSU the other school was totally screwed.


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That is correct on Randolph and there is more on that one as well. Like the fact that he never took an SAT of ACT.

[HoosierAloha]

 
Peanuts compared to value they provide for the university.  These kids are getting swindled.  
 
https://www.businessinsider.com/college-basketball-player-value-2017-3
 
Edit:  From that link, each of our guys provided a value of $870,000 annually to the University.  D-1 average is $170,000 annually.

Here's the thing though, there is nothing that says they have to go to college. They get more than just the scholarship money, the stipend, the free meals, clothes, etc. they get a chance to build their brand. That's why you don't see more kids going overseas or to the G-League from high school. That and the extra money they can get through committing to a school.

How much do NBA owners make compared to what they pay their players? How much do schools make compared to what they spend on scholarships, world class facilities, top notch trainers and coaches, stipends, housing, food, transportation, etc.?


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[HoosierHoops1]

1 hour ago, Stromboli said:

I get a little sick of the cheating issue.  I know it's happening, I just don't find it all that interesting.  The game would be better without it, but at the same time I do think these kids should be compensated for what they provide, just like any other entertainer that can fill a gymnasium, and secure multi-million television contracts and gambling fodder and merchandise sales.  Also, it makes March a whole lot more fun when Loyola-Chicago can charge through, or Butler, or George Mason, beating the larger programs.  And honestly, when our desperate fanbase starts whining about the cheaters, it makes us look a little pathetic.  

 

The other thing is people tend to lump all cheating into the same bucket.  The coach isn't writing checks from his University checkbook.  Except in the worst cases, he's not negotiating with shoe companies.  Pitino got caught because he's careless and arrogant, and frankly the money was too good for him personally.  I think the actual system is a little more nuanced than how it is discussed.  The smarter programs limit a head coach's exposure as much as possible, keeping plausible deniability and really just to make sure the program can keep its coach.  Money and favors change hands through cash transactions or in-kind goods and services coming from persons not connected to the university.  

 

Miles Bridges is from Flint, and went to MSU.  Did his family receive some kind of benefit?  Probably.  Was Izzo the guy arranging for this to occur?  Probably not.  Do I view Miles as a cheater, or somehow wish I could stop his family from receiving the money?  No way.  I'm guessing when someone inadvertently provides proof of this stuff to Izzo, he has to make some official and documented statement stating that he is against it and won't tolerate it, etc.  And this is known, so he's kept in the dark.  Did Drewfus buy Darius Garland a car?  Obviously not.  Did some wealthy family from Brentwood have a channel to get funds to Garland and his family?  Very likely so.  Has Louisville continued to get recruits after Pitino was fired?  Yep, because that framework is still in place.  

 

Of course the question is whether or not Indiana is involved in this.  From what I've learned Archie keeps his nose out of it.  And so Archie is not a cheater.  Do the players receive benefits from elsewhere?  Pretty naive to think otherwise.  I don't think Indiana is bad relative to the other programs, and I don't think any part of the coaching staff is connected to it.  I also don't think our failure to cheat is the reason for our middling success.  

My opinion?

If you want to get paid, don't go to college,  go get paid.

If you want to go to college, you'll wait to get paid.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

My opinion?
If you want to get paid, don't go to college,  go get paid.
If you want to go to college, you'll wait to get paid.

But the NCAA wants its cake and eat it too.

The premiere pre-pro league for Football and Basketball is NCAA sports. If we allow straight to pro, then sure but colleges will still pay for the next best players because it pays to win. Catch 22 all over and over again.


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[HoosierHoops1]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

But the NCAA wants its cake and eat it too.

The premiere pre-pro league for Football and Basketball is NCAA sports. If we allow straight to pro, then sure but colleges will still pay for the next best players because it pays to win. Catch 22 all over and over again.


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That's why you make the punishment for all involved, such that it likely won't be worth it.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

That's why you make the punishment for all involved, such that it likely won't be worth it.

Or openly let the free market play out like it already does but make it transparent.


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[HoosierHoops1]

The free market is about following certain rules and regulations. This is about cheating and gaining an unfair advantage from cheating. People get real punishment from cheating in a free market system. 

 

Anyway, I don't want Indiana to get muckier than we've ever been. There are a lot of quality players that one doesn't have to cheat to get. (I think)

 

[IU Hardcore]

16 hours ago, Hoosier Guy said:

College football and basketball players should be paid. They make so much money for their respective universities. A free college education is nice. But as Stromboli said, it’s pennies to what they should get

We all have our opinions on this matter.

My opinion is that if they want to be paid to play they should be playing professionally. Should we also pay the high school players? Middle school?? Grade school???

I can't think of any other amateur endeavor where the participants get paid. I would have been thrilled for one of my sons  to have been able to play the game they love and get a free college education for doing it.

[Brass Cannon]

18 minutes ago, IU Hardcore said:

We all have our opinions on this matter.

My opinion is that if they want to be paid to play they should be playing professionally. Should we also pay the high school players? Middle school?? Grade school???

I can't think of any other amateur endeavor where the participants get paid. I would have been thrilled for one of my sons  to have been able to play the game they love and get a free college education for doing it.

Calling an operation that operates in the Billions an amateur endeavor is kind of a stretch. These kids are professional athletes in every sense of the word other than getting paid. Some of their facilities and staffing rival or even exceed the closest pro teams. 

[MikeRoberts]

Calling an operation that operates in the Billions an amateur endeavor is kind of a stretch. These kids are professional athletes in every sense of the word other than getting paid. Some of their facilities and staffing rival or even exceed the closest pro teams. 

I still don’t understand how people say they aren’t paid. They are being compensated more than the average working adult!

The amount provided in free education, meals, housing, transportation, coaching, training, medical etc etc adds up to a ton and way more than hard working individuals that have college degrees and work full time


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[Hurryin' Hoosiers]

17 hours ago, Stromboli said:

 

Peanuts compared to value they provide for the university.  These kids are getting swindled.  

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/college-basketball-player-value-2017-3

 

Edit:  From that link, each of our guys provided a value of $870,000 annually to the University.  D-1 average is $170,000 annually.

Yea, just like every employee gets swindled when compared to their CEO/Owner. 

NBA/NFL players get swindled by owners.

Employees get swindled by CEOs/Management

If players get paid then they should then be considered public employees and subject to anything that applies as such.

If we are going to talk about the unfairness to players, then lets discuss how that is real life for pretty much everyone but the 1%ers.  

However, players have it much better than their peers.  Otherwise, they would just play basketball at the HPER without a scholarship.