IU at Illinois Game Thread (1/24 - 9pm - BTN)

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,120]

 
Do you guys know I can hear you talking about me?
 
All I'm talking about are the facts.  Results.  Others talk about possibilities, I deal in facts.  That makes dreamers crazy.

So do I.
Fact 1- if the players don't miss half the FTs we win.
Fact 2- if players don't have the unforced errors which led to at least 16 points we win.


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[BGleas 7,880]

4 minutes ago, cappymo14 said:

What was this Green at point guard thing the whole 2nd half? He dribbles too much. The offense relies on ball movement. Yes or no? He doesn’t move it. Where was Josh? He’s a better ball handler. Not great, but the best on the team. Not debatable. I just don’t understand. Green is a turnover machine. The one thing Illinois does very well is pressure the ball with their guards. Green was never ever going to stand up to that. Never. That’s a coaching mistake in my opinion. Don’t take it the wrong way, I’m not blaming Archie or saying we made the wrong hire. But that was a mistake. Out of the blue in a close game.


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Newkirk had 4 turnovers in 12 minutes. I’m not saying Green was good down the stretch, but he had 2 turnovers in 27 minutes. Not sure it was that bad a coaching move, Newkirk was awful tonight. 

[MikeRoberts 6,838]

Really? Up until tonight we’re something like 4 or 5-0 in games decided by 5 points or less. We actually play defense. Tonight was bad, but we take much better care of the ball. We consistently have great scoring plays coming out of timeouts. A huge reason we were even in the Duke game was because of Archie. 
I think people are way overestimating how bad this roster is. I don’t care what the stars are next to their high school ranking, this is a bad roster. The guards are terrible, absolutely atrocious. We have very little length, inaccurate shooters, and so on and so on. Morgan is a stud, but after that it’s a crapshoot. 
I give Archie a ton of credit for having this team 5-3 in conference coming into the game. 

Maybe recency memory but I cannot recall us ever getting blown out of so many games as we have this year. We have had some massive losses which means we weren't prepared, didn't fight and didn't execute.

Our defense really isn't anything to write home about and I am still baffled at how bad our team is shooting the ball. These are guys that used to be decent shooters, why have they gotten worse?




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[BGleas 7,880]

I’d also say For the most part Archie manages minutes/subs really good. He did a great job tonight managing Morgan’s foul situation in the second half, and getting him quick rests around the media timeouts. Crean never did that stuff. 

[BGleas 7,880]

Just now, MikeRoberts said:

Maybe recency memory but I cannot recall us ever getting blown out of so many games as we have this year. We have had some massive losses which means we weren't prepared, didn't fight and didn't execute.

Our defense really isn't anything to write home about and I am still baffled at how bad our team is shooting the ball. These are guys that used to be decent shooters, why have they gotten worse?




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Or maybe it means our team stinks?

[pumpfake 3,914]

3 minutes ago, bstall76 said:

You say that in jest, but if IU had one of his Dayton recruits, McKinley Wright, who is playing excellent for Colorado as a freshman, IU would be a much better team. 

Ultimately you're correct about McKinley Wright - Archie should have pursued him.  I completely understand not going after (poaching) a player from your former team, but you have to do everything (legal) in your power to win at this level.

[mdn82 25,464]

So do I.
Fact 1- if the players don't miss half the FTs we win.
Fact 2- if players don't have the unforced errors which led to at least 16 points we win.


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This is also true. If Green doesn’t pass it to the other team at the end we might win. If Illinois doesn’t shoot 100 free throws in the second half after shooting a couple in the first we win. There were quite a few things that could have been different that results in a win. I think they had over 20 points on turnovers which is Illinois game. They are also one of the worst teams when it comes to fouling in NCAA so we knew going in we had to hit free throws. It should have been a 10 point win.


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[cbp4iu 1,346]

4 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Newkirk had 4 turnovers in 12 minutes. Green had 3 in 27 minutes. Newkirk was awful and we have a coach that uses the bench as a punishment. Unfortunately there is no good options for starters let alone as a backup. People just can’t see that cause they are pissed we lost. We do not have a roster that is IU worthy. This is what happens when your best 3 players leave. Facts


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Actually sometimes I think Newkirk doesn’t know the plays. Tonight he called a play Iu starts running it and throws it behind McRoberts. I tried not to laugh but I go you literally just called the play you should know as the point guard where everyone is going. I don’t even want to imagine our POints guards against Purdue Sunday. 

[pumpfake 3,914]

Heck, we would have won if we didn't miss (at least) 3 easy layups.

[HoosierAloha 29,910]

What was this Green at point guard thing the whole 2nd half? He dribbles too much. The offense relies on ball movement. Yes or no? He doesn’t move it. Where was Josh? He’s a better ball handler. Not great, but the best on the team. Not debatable. I just don’t understand. Green is a turnover machine. The one thing Illinois does very well is pressure the ball with their guards. Green was never ever going to stand up to that. Never. That’s a coaching mistake in my opinion. Don’t take it the wrong way, I’m not blaming Archie or saying we made the wrong hire. But that was a mistake. Out of the blue in a close game.


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Newkirk was too busy passing to that lady that wouldn't sit down in her court side seat.

Newkirk had 2 assists and 4 turnovers in 12 minutes. Green had 5 assists to 2 turnovers in 27 minutes. Neither of them are the answer but this was one of Newkirk's "nah, I'd rather not coach" games.

If we would have just shot our abysmal 67% average from the line we would have won. We all knew a game would be lost on FTs and it cost us. Hopefully, this is the only one we lose because we can't hit FTs but I doubt it.


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[MikeRoberts 6,838]

Or maybe it means our team stinks?

That doesn't address why players have regressed in key areas. Why are players regressing in shooting, one of the most important parts of the game?


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[Magnanimous 4,401]

28 minutes ago, Feathery said:

It’s not Archie’s fault that IU has sucked for 25 years. I understand wanting to win now, but accept the reality of the situation and enjoy the games. I truly didn’t care that we lost. I’m more into why are we losing and what can be done to fix it. To me we need some grad transfers/Juco’s and to give some handshakes at the end of the season. To me Archie is trying to make lemonade out of lemons. 

Agreed. The last 20 years of IUBB is a sunk cost. People need to get over it.

[BGleas 7,880]

Who are all of these guys that are worse shooters? Newkirk has always been an average, streaky shooter. Green has always been a streaky shooter. Morgan has always struggled from the perimeter. McRoberts has never been a shooter. Durham was billed as a bad shooter coming out of college. Our supposed big-time shooter Hartman, has always been a slightly above average shooter, not great, and he’s coming off his 2nd ACL. RoJo has always been a streaky shooter and was awful the second half of last season. 

I didn’t think we’d be this bad collectively, but I always thought we’d be a poor shooting team this year. 

[cappymo14 2,276]

Newkirk had 4 turnovers in 12 minutes. I’m not saying Green was good down the stretch, but he had 2 turnovers in 27 minutes. Not sure it was that bad a coaching move, Newkirk was awful tonight. 

I saw the turnovers. I also saw what happened to the offense. Using the bench as a motivator is great, I love it from him. Let’s be frank here. Green had no chance as the point guard in the last 5 minutes. Green dribbling basically in place for 20 seconds hurt the team. The offense literally stopped. Dead cold, no movement. Josh needs to be on the floor, turnovers and all. Green is not going to get it done, has never been able to and never will. Please don’t try to prove it by playing him more.


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[Old Friend 8,389]

A completely disgusting performance by a disgustingly rudderless on-floor ship.  Good God.  Our seniors (save Johnson sometimes) are abysmal.  

Hartman was absolutely awful tonight.  McSwain holds the world record for having his shots blocked.  Newkirk is a walking turnover.   We are forced to play, in Durham, Newkirk, and McSwain, 3 horrible basketball players.  

Our focus is just awful.  How does a team from INDIANA miss 13 of 29 free throws?  Seriously.  How?  How does Juwon Morgan improve as much as he has, yet miss key free throw after key free throw?  (But my God, he was terrific again....we are AWFUL without him on the floor) How on God's Earth does Hartman shoot 1-4 and 0-3 from the 3 point line?  Isn't he a senior?? How do Johnson and McRoberts each equal the total rebounds of Hartman and McSwain combined??  (Hartman was just terrible tonight)  How in the holy hell do we shoot 50.8% and allow 41.5% FG's; make 3 more FG's than our opponent and still manage to get beat?  Against an 0-8 team in conference?  Our senior leadership sucks.  There.  I said it.  Yes.  It sucks.  Looking at you, Hartman.  Johnson.  Newkirk.    

Why does Justin Smith play just 20 minutes?   He's only shooting 54% from the field this season, and is one of the only guys who was able to get in position to defend that stupid 4th grade elbow hand off.  

This team is maddening.

That felt good.  Thank you for reading.  

[BGleas 7,880]

2 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

That doesn't address why players have regressed in key areas. Why are players regressing in shooting, one of the most important parts of the game?


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See my post above, but are these great shooters that have regressed? All these guys have always been streaky. Why is Hartman missing completely wide open 3’s? I don’t know. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,120]

I know mdn threw me out as a Wichita State fan, but I'm an IU fan.  I just want to win.  Being ridiculed because of that while I watch our team get embarrassed for the fourth time this season is frustrating.  
 
Go ahead and call me names guys.  I expect results.  I expect to win against inferior teams.  I don't think that's too much to ask.

Everyone is frustrated. But o don't see how this game is Archie's fault. He didn't have the unforced errors or missed foul shots.

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[mdn82 25,464]

That doesn't address why players have regressed in key areas. Why are players regressing in shooting, one of the most important parts of the game?


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From everything I have heard at games or from people I respect they were so far behind on their defensive fundamentals and terminology that is what they worked on early and often. Crean’s practices were also very different. Very demanding. I too feel they spent so much time on defense however this area of our team has failed us. The kids for the most part get good looks. Just not dropping.


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[BGleas 7,880]

3 minutes ago, cappymo14 said:

I saw the turnovers. I also saw what happened to the offense. Using the bench as a motivator is great, I love it from him. Let’s be frank here. Green had no chance as the point guard in the last 5 minutes. Green dribbling basically in place for 20 seconds hurt the team. The offense literally stopped. Dead cold, no movement. Josh needs to be on the floor, turnovers and all. Green is not going to get it done, has never been able to and never will. Please don’t try to prove it by playing him more.


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Believe me, I was in a debate yesterday on another forum arguing that Newkirk should absolutely keep his spot and Green doesn’t deserve the minutes. But with that said, Newkirk was terrible tonight. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,120]

Not getting Mckinley Wright is killer.

We had no room for him and no one knee he was going to be this good. His rankings if I recall were about the same as Durham.

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