IUBB vs Fort Wayne - 12/18 @ 8:00 E.T.

[JSHoosier]

Sad thing is I didn't even expect to blow out IPFW.  I expected to win, and really just keep them at arm's reach.  I expected to see signs of building on ND, I expected to see signs of improvement; taking care of the ball, perimeter defense, offensive execution.  We got none of that, we saw a team that took gigantic steps backward.  I refuse to mark that off as an 'up and down year'.  I refuse to make excuses, for getting humiliated by a mid major at home, which I so hoped would leave with Crean.

I didn't have high expectations for this year or this game, but that, whatever it was, failed miserably to meet any expectation.  It needs to be answered for.  

[Bailey7878]

Archie didn’t have the team prepared. Shouldn’t be losing by 20 at home to Fort Wayne. I can’t believe the excuses by some on here

Look people made excuses for crean his whole tenure and his first 3 years he walked on water. The fan base has been hit with so little success the last 30 years they have come accused to those kind of efforts. Hence you can keep expecting excuses. People have lowered there expectations so low a lot were on cloud 9 with creans sweet sixeteens. Iu may never be elite again and that's a fact. I've finally realized it may never happen no matter who we hire.





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[Josh]

I am not or never will condone that game from a coaching or player standpoint. As many things should have and could have been different. But, what can anyone “prepare” for in one day sandwiches between games? More than likely Sunday was no more than a film study and a walkthrough with some light shooting. That said it was a piss poor showing.


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Ipfw played also had a "one day sandwich". Somehow they were able to prepare.

Nothing on you personally, just wanted to respond to this point out of many. There are too many posters who don't seem to be upset at another blowout at home to a bad team. Either that or just blowing it off. That's anazing.

Last night was concerning.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Ipfw played also had a "one day sandwich". Somehow they were able to prepare.

Nothing on you personally, just wanted to respond to this point out of many. There are too many posters who don't seem to be upset at another blowout at home to a bad team. Either that or just blowing it off. That's anazing.

Last night was concerning.

Sad thing is we won't really know for another 1-2 years. It's a sad, slow state of affairs.

Hopefully Archie got the right guys to make an early impact. I pretty much was writing this season off anyway. I don't want to do that again next year.

I can almost guarantee Archie didn't expect things to look this rough. I bet he is as shell shocked as many of us. He's a grinder, but it's concerning.


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[mdn82]

Ipfw played also had a "one day sandwich". Somehow they were able to prepare.

Nothing on you personally, just wanted to respond to this point out of many. There are too many posters who don't seem to be upset at another blowout at home to a bad team. Either that or just blowing it off. That's anazing.

Last night was concerning.

Yes, it is easier to get up for IU than up for IPFW. It’s not that they were prepared. We were up one at the half. Playing like trash at that. They were too. Then they hit a couple of threes. Snowballed from there. It was ugly. I was there. I have never been more pissed after a game I went to. At this point I don’t care whose players they are. He needs to get up in their ***** if they ever come out with that effort again. It was literally a lack of effort or pure laziness at both ends that lost us that game.


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[The Baby Bull]

On 12/18/2017 at 8:46 PM, 323SGrant said:

Newkirk is a non-finisher.


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No ****. We don’t have any guards that can score or play really good d.

[HoosierAloha]

It's good to see some of you peeps posting again. Those that come out of the woodwork when things get rough..

I'm sure Archie would be happy to answer to you for his loss last night.

There's no passes given. Period. With that, this was an 18-16 first round NIT loss team WITH three pros that are now gone. There will be good wins (Notre Dame) and embarrassing losses (ISU, IPFW). There isn't a coach in the game that would turn this roster into a consistent winner.

I've heard Crean's assistants were mostly "yes, men." His teams consistently lacked leadership as well. This one lacks all kinds of things that it takes to win.

Hop off the wagon and jumped back on at a later stop.



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[Bowhunter]

The difference between losing with Tom Crean and losing with Archie Miller is Tom made excuses and Archie doesn't. 

[The Baby Bull]

1 hour ago, Bailey7878 said:

Look people made excuses for crean his whole tenure and his first 3 years he walked on water. The fan base has been hit with so little success the last 30 years they have come accused to those kind of efforts. Hence you can keep expecting excuses. People have lowered there expectations so low a lot were on cloud 9 with creans sweet sixeteens. Iu may never be elite again and that's a fact. I've finally realized it may never happen no matter who we hire.





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Go hang yourself with a cream and crimson scarf. Go IU !

[mdn82]

Sad thing is we won't really know for another 1-2 years. It's a sad, slow state of affairs.

Hopefully Archie got the right guys to make an early impact. I pretty much was writing this season off anyway. I don't want to do that again next year.

I can almost guarantee Archie didn't expect things to look this rough. I bet he is as shell shocked as many of us. He's a grinder, but it's concerning.


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One thing we all know is this a pressure job. We will find out pretty quick if he is cut out for it. He has said the right things up to this point. I feel we will know pretty quickly.


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[HoosierAloha]

Serious question.

Did our senior guards have more assists for us or them?


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[The Baby Bull]

41 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

It's good to see some of you peeps posting again. Those that come out of the woodwork when things get rough..

I'm sure Archie would be happy to answer to you for his loss last night.

There's no passes given. Period. With that, this was an 18-16 first round NIT loss team WITH three pros that are now gone. There will be good wins (Notre Dame) and embarrassing losses (ISU, IPFW). There isn't a coach in the game that would turn this roster into a consistent winner.

I've heard Crean's assistants were mostly "yes, men." His teams consistently lacked leadership as well. This one lacks all kinds of things that it takes to win.

Hop off the wagon and jumped back on at a later stop.



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Exactly right. The talent is not strong with team.

[ThisIsIndiana11]

This may have been brought up already, but I’m thinking the pack-line D was a big part of this game (and ISU). From all I’ve read the pack-line is meant to force jump shots with a closing defender. A great ball handler with good 3-point shooters around is the recipe to beat the pack line. Seems like Fort Wayne was exactly that. Do you guys think Archie would switch up the defense at all going into an opponent with those strengths?

[Walking Boot of Doom]

I love reading posts that say “I refuse to accept...” “this is unacceptable...” “someone needs to be held accountable...”

 

It was one game. Unacceptable to me means someone needs to be fired. Should we fire Archie because of a game? No. You fire a coach because they consistently fail to organize and prepare a team that can win. What’s the appropriate sample size? Well, there’s a thread for that. But it certainly isn’t one game.

 

Saw a comment that it’s sad that it’s a slow 2-3 year ordeal to know if it was the right hire. Well... yeah. It takes time to know if one bad season or one amazing season was a fluke or the norm.

 

We can throw out these hardo statements about what’s acceptable and what’s not, and act shocked at “excuses” being made, but it doesn’t matter. You won’t know until a norm is established, and this coach hasn’t even had a chance to begin to define the new normal of Indiana basketball.

 

 

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[DChoosier]

Agree that unacceptable etc is a bit strong this early into Archie's tenure.  Way too early to judge how things will work out for him at IU.  That being said, blaming Crean, talent, turn-around time etc is hard to take (for this one game) after we lose a home game to a Fort Wayne team that has already lost to Oakland, Akron and East TN State.  Did Oakland win with talent we can only dream about having?? This was a bad loss.  Only one game but the inconsistent effort is partially on Archie. 

[MikeRoberts]

I think it is wild stretch to try to connect one saying a loss like this, actually several losses like this are unacceptable to Archie needing to be fired. Haven't seen anyone make statement or connection.

I personally used the word unacceptable and I stand by it. There were a lot of things that happened in that game and likely leading up to it that cannot be accepted as ok, the norm, provided excuses for. Losses happen but getting dogstomped at home by ISU and IPfW is not ok. The effort, preparation etc have to be better


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[HoosierAloha]

This may have been brought up already, but I’m thinking the pack-line D was a big part of this game (and ISU). From all I’ve read the pack-line is meant to force jump shots with a closing defender. A great ball handler with good 3-point shooters around is the recipe to beat the pack line. Seems like Fort Wayne was exactly that. Do you guys think Archie would switch up the defense at all going into an opponent with those strengths?

Forcing contested jump shots is the key to winning games. It's not as easy as just having a great point surrounded by shooters. This system works best with long wings that can appropriately close out on shooters. More importantly it's an understanding of what you're doing.

On one of the thirty open threes IPFW took, Green didn't move back to his man with Morgan and they left a wide open shooter in the corner. That's lazy, stupid basketball and has to get better.


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[IUHAHN81]

I'll say it again, if one of the other big time gigs were to have gotten Archie,  he'd be making us all go, "damn that guy can coach!"  He WILL do the same here.  It really is as simple as personnel right now.  Yep, as simple as that.  

[Old Friend]

4 hours ago, Hoosier Guy said:

Archie didn’t have the team prepared. Shouldn’t be losing by 20 at home to Fort Wayne. I can’t believe the excuses by some on here

This one's 100% on the players.  Not Archie.  You think he's teaching them to leave the 3 point line uncontested?  You think he wants them to lose all 50/50 balls, miss FT's, etc?     What about that game said "unprepared because of coaching" to you?  I saw a team that looked like they didn't want to be there.  That's on the players and in particular the seniors esp. Newkirk, McSwain (who is Godawful), and Johnson.  Not the coach.

[Trish]

1 hour ago, ThisIsIndiana11 said:

This may have been brought up already, but I’m thinking the pack-line D was a big part of this game (and ISU). From all I’ve read the pack-line is meant to force jump shots with a closing defender. A great ball handler with good 3-point shooters around is the recipe to beat the pack line. Seems like Fort Wayne was exactly that. Do you guys think Archie would switch up the defense at all going into an opponent with those strengths?

It doesn't help that he doesn't have a single player on this team that is fitted for the pack line defense. Maybe Al could grow into it, but no one else strikes me as a player who could succeed in the pack line. 

He could've switch into something else, but IPFW was shooting lights out. Some shots wide open sure, but some of them were contested.