IUBB vs Fort Wayne - 12/18 @ 8:00 E.T.

[Whoozhers 3,764]

I tried to drink myself to victory but, about the 10 minute mark it was apparent it wasn’t going to happen.

I thought it was MILLER TIME but, NOOOOO!

That loss is gonna leave a mark.

 

 

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[Class of '66 Old Fart 88,037]

Several hours have passed but the bitter taste of watching how we played is still there.   I feel badly for Hartman whose battled so many injuries and I'm certain he wasn't expecting his final season to play out as it has.  Call me a fair weather fan if you like, but right now, I'm not sure I want to watch any more IU basketball this season.  Simply too frustrating.  

Former IU player Robbie Eggers‏ tweeted the following and it really is true.  #iubb has become the Tiger Woods of college basketball - the red shirt on the final round (game day) doesn't intimidate anyone!

 

[RaceToTheTop 29,023]

Robbie Eggers really doesn’t have room to talk about intimidating anyone.

[reconmkd 4,685]

It definitely seems that ISU and IPFW played the same script in their games at SSAH. It seems that all it takes to get into the heads of some of the more seasoned players on IU, is to play fast and jack some 3s! It seemed that the team reverted back to the old system, which is a huge problem, but not just the style of play, the over thinking/analyzing things or not thinking at all. We don't have anyone on this team that is capable to playing that fast and hit 3s without committing a TO. You could visibly see the frustration on CAMs face, but almost a blank slate on the players. They clammed up, went deaf, and put blinders on! Not one semblance of CAMs system showed last night.

This game reminds me of trying to reign in a rebellious teen! You get their attention for a little bit, then they are busted for something stupid. In the post game, CAM stated that he didn't have them ready to play, but I really don't think that it falls on him for this one. They may have heard and known the message, but it didn't stick! At this point, I honestly believe that the teams worst enemy is their own minds!

I've seen a few comments that blame CAM for not making changes during the game, I don't think it is that simple. If the players are struggling to learn just 1 defensive set (which seems to be a completely new concept to some on this team), what makes anyone think that switching to another defense during a game will be any better? These guys struggle to move the ball on offense, close out on defense, get out of their own heads, not turn the ball over, feed the post, find the open guy, communicate, move laterally, stay with their guy; they are obviously not capable of making a switch from pack-line to a zone or something else during a game.

 

[Stuhoo 86,200]

 

 Damezi Anderson Jr. Retweeted

Milton H. Williams@Fivelefts

@AndersonDamezi @j_hunter35 @robphinisee1 @begreatjake #IU is in #desperateNeed for a #Mentality change! Never! Be #Satisfied! On the collegiate level.. Don’t #Ever! Let someone #Dominate you, on your home floor! You guys will #Represent a new era! Be #Ready to #Fight! Everyday!

8h

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[bigrod 2,979]

I've seen a few comments that blame CAM for not making changes during the game, I don't think it is that simple. If the players are struggling to learn just 1 defensive set (which seems to be a completely new concept to some on this team), what makes anyone think that switching to another defense during a game will be any better? These guys struggle to move the ball on offense, close out on defense, get out of their own heads, not turn the ball over, feed the post, find the open guy, communicate, move laterally, stay with their guy; they are obviously not capable of making a switch from pack-line to a zone or something else during a game.
 

I like CAM, so like many others, I’ve been giving him a pass with this team. But, you can’t lose to IPFW at home by 20 and not shoulder some of the blame. If nothing else, we’ve got to start seeing what some other players can do during a game. I totally get he wants guys to practice hard, but some guys shrink when the lights are brightest.


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[Woodsonshump 364]

If I’m Archie, I’m cutting my losses this season. I’m finding me 10 guys who will do exactly what I tell them to do, even if they fail miserably in doing it. Willingness is the key here. Then, I’m sending Newkirk and RoJo packing. Sometimes things are simply better through subtraction. 

[Stuhoo 86,200]

Just now, hoosierfan84 said:

If I’m Archie, I’m cutting my losses this season. I’m finding me 10 guys who will do exactly what I tell them to do, even if they fail miserably in doing it. Willingness is the key here. Then, I’m sending Newkirk and RoJo packing. Sometimes things are simply better through subtraction. 

 

I'm fairly certain that RoJo will continue to start.  There aren't other options.

 

[reconmkd 4,685]

1 minute ago, bigrod said:

I've seen a few comments that blame CAM for not making changes during the game, I don't think it is that simple. If the players are struggling to learn just 1 defensive set (which seems to be a completely new concept to some on this team), what makes anyone think that switching to another defense during a game will be any better? These guys struggle to move the ball on offense, close out on defense, get out of their own heads, not turn the ball over, feed the post, find the open guy, communicate, move laterally, stay with their guy; they are obviously not capable of making a switch from pack-line to a zone or something else during a game.
 

I like CAM, so like many others, I’ve been giving him a pass with this team. But, you can’t lose to IPFW at home by 20 and not shoulder some of the blame. If nothing else, we’ve got to start seeing what some other players can do during a game. I totally get he wants guys to practice hard, but some guys shrink when the lights are brightest.


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Now that I reread my post, I should have said that CAM does share some of the responsibility for last night, but the players get a lot of it.

I was ready for the bench to play just a few minutes into the 2nd half, like many others. I would have been happy with JMO and McRoberts with Smith, Moore, Al, Lasko, Jager, and Colin for the rest of the game. I know that Rojo has made vast improvements on D, but what good does that do if you are going to have 6 TOs and disappear for 2/3s of the game offensively? It seems like Rojo does just enough in the nick of time to keep him from the bench. That is not what we needed him to do this year. I'm beginning to think that the proverbial "come to Jesus" moment for the upperclassmen has past its potential to help them and I don't even know if the bench will help them.

[cleeter 2,818]

Todd Meier, Winston Morgan, Steve Alford, Stew Robinson and Uwe Blab. That starting 5 is most likely better than any player we got. I bring them up because when they weren't playing to their level and not making RMK happy, he benched them. Didnt start them against Iowa. It showed a message. Lit a  fire under their a$$ and let them know that just because you are upperclassmen or a big recruit, doesn't mean you are "entitled" to start or play more. I wish CTC would have done this with his teams a couple times but never did. Start next game with McBob, Priller, Jager, etc. Even if they only play for 30 seconds or 30 minutes, it gets a point across to this team that you EARN your time on the court, you aren't entitled to anything. And maybe, just maybe, lights a fire in this team. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by cleeter

[TXHoosierDaddy 1,375]

21 minutes ago, hoosierfan84 said:

If I’m Archie, I’m cutting my losses this season. I’m finding me 10 guys who will do exactly what I tell them to do, even if they fail miserably in doing it. Willingness is the key here. Then, I’m sending Newkirk and RoJo packing. Sometimes things are simply better through subtraction. 

Only guy I would honestly want to keep is Morgan and of courses the freshman. I still think Davis can be a respectable four year player too. The rest can kick rocks. 

[cthomas 6,562]

This team will win or lose on the defensive end. We won't simply outscore many teams on our schedule. We have players recruited for a completely different system and they will likely never be great at what Coach Miller is asking them to do. This was going to be a down year no matter what. Everything that was wrong with last year's team is still there minus the three best players. The second half last night displayed all of our flaws, both mental and physical. We have enough of a sample now to conclude that we are probably what we appear to be. The one criticism that I have about coaches like Miller, Bennett, even Knight is that they are system coaches to the point that they live or die by what they think works with very little flexibility. With enough of the right kind of talent, that philosophy can be highly successful. Without it, you get what we are seeing.

[TXHoosierDaddy 1,375]

4 minutes ago, cthomas said:

This team will win or lose on the defensive end. We won't simply outscore many teams on our schedule. We have players recruited for a completely different system and they will likely never be great at what Coach Miller is asking them to do. This was going to be a down year no matter what. Everything that was wrong with last year's team is still there minus the three best players. The second half last night displayed all of our flaws, both mental and physical. We have enough of a sample now to conclude that we are probably what we appear to be. The one criticism that I have about coaches like Miller, Bennett, even Knight is that they are system coaches to the point that they live or die by what they think works with very little flexibility. With enough of the right kind of talent, that philosophy can be highly successful. Without it, you get what we are seeing.

I get your point but i dont think it matters what system these guys are in. The bottom line is they can't shoot or score and that's not changing no matter who is coaching them. Blackmon, OG, Bryant were huge, huge losses. If we just had one of those guys it's a totally different season. Not one guy on the current roster has really stepped up to fill those roles although Morgan has really come on the last few games. 

[ccgeneral 38,084]

7 minutes ago, cleeter said:

Todd Meier, Winston Morgan, Steve Alford, Stew Robinson and Uwe Blab. That starting 5 is most likely better than any player we got. I bring them up because when they weren't playing to their level and not making RMK happy, he benched them. Didnt start them against Iowa. It showed a message. Lit a  fire under their a$$ and let them know that just because you are upperclassmen or a big recruit, doesn't mean you are "entitled" to start or play more. I wish CTC would have done this with his teams a couple times but never did. Start next game with McBob, Priller, Jager, etc. Even if they only play for 30 seconds or 30 minutes, it gets a point across to this team that you EARN your time on the court, you aren't entitled to anything. And maybe, just maybe, lights a fire in this team. 

Doesn't look like Archie will either. He should've emptied the bench with atleast 10 minutes left.  

[pumpfake 4,235]

We now know that Arch can't spin straw into gold.  Not that he should have been expected to work miracles with a mediocre roster, but it was something I had hopes for.  Last year's team was bad and we arguably lost the 3 most valuable players from it before this season, so I have no problem with the above description of our current talent level.  What did disappoint me was our lack of toughness, making the same mistakes on defensive switches time after time, and instances of bored or lazy effort.  There was a play in the first half when Justin Smith finally got in the game and then just stood there watching when there was a loose ball (that McRoberts dove for) - that was indicative of much of the effort level I saw.  We have very little in the way of size.  Very little in the way of reliable/consistent shooting.  Very little in the way of physical superiority.  Fine.  But lack of effort, failure to learn and play smart basketball, and playing soft are inexcusable.  Also, I really support Collin Hartman, but he hasn't exactly been stellar the last few games (and is deserving of some criticism our other two seniors deservedly get).

Maybe this team has a bunch of guys who just don't have the fire in the belly - I don't know.  But that is my biggest disappointment with last night's performance.  I really hope that much of this is simply a result of our former coach's inability to recruit talented and TOUGH MINDED players, it seems the best players we saw over the past 8 years were more motivated to get to the NBA than to beat the hell out of their opponents.  Again, I just don't know.

[JSHoosier 21,727]

There is absolutely zero excuse for what happened last night.  At absolute worst we have enough talent to not get demolished by IPFW on our home court; as I've said though, this team has enough to beat the likes of IPFW.

I didn't expect a world beater, but at this point I expected to see continued improvement not 2 steps forward and 4 gigantic steps back.  At this point I expected to see the players looking better and better defensively, that's not happening; IPFW out shot us partly because most of their shots didn't have a defender in the same timezone.

Miller absolutely deserves his share of the blame for last night's, whatever it was.  They weren't prepared, and that is on him.  He didn't inherit what Crean did, so let's stop acting like it.

At this point I don't care if there aren't options, next game would have at least 4 new starters.  These starters don't want to pull their head out of their arse then they can start pulling splinters out of it.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Doesn't look like Archie will either. He should've emptied the bench with atleast 10 minutes left.  

Why make the bench players suffer the embarrassment?


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[VO5 8,340]

38 minutes ago, ccgeneral said:

Doesn't look like Archie will either. He should've emptied the bench with atleast 10 minutes left.  

I get this sentiment, but it’s a fine line to walk. What if this causes him to lose those guys mentally the rest of the year? That creates a toxic environment. If we have a terrible year because of that I’m thinking you can kiss Romeo (already convinced that ship has sailed) and TJD or whoever in the 19 class goodbye. 

Most of our recruits in the 19 class are getting recruited by MSU and watching them have a great year. If we bomb, they look that much more attractive. 

We need to have the most respectable year possible, and as much as I hate to say it, we need the seniors to do that. 

[Chris007 56,888]

10 hours ago, Whojainjawja said:

I live in Ga. I have a daughter that swims for them and a son playing baseball for GCSU. Have you heard of Kirby Smart? Second year coach and playing in the BCS. Might end up with the #1 class this year, right behind the #3 class last season..Don't tell me a coach needs 3-4 years. Wrong hire. I know that is not a popular statement, but it is a fact. This is Indiana, but that bark has very few teeth these days.

I'm pretty sure Mark Richt left the cupboard a little more stocked for Smart than Crean did for Miller. Also didn't Richt get hired immediately after getting fired? Crean had to go into TV that should tell you something. 

[Chris007 56,888]

2 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Several hours have passed but the bitter taste of watching how we played is still there.   I feel badly for Hartman whose battled so many injuries and I'm certain he wasn't expecting his final season to play out as it has.  Call me a fair weather fan if you like, but right now, I'm not sure I want to watch any more IU basketball this season.  Simply too frustrating.  

Former IU player Robbie Eggers‏ tweeted the following and it really is true.  #iubb has become the Tiger Woods of college basketball - the red shirt on the final round (game day) doesn't intimidate anyone!

 

Don't feel sorry for Hartman, if you do feel sorry for him, then do it because he is not getting into some players behinds because their not playing hard. We need a senior leader & so far our leaders are the ones screwing up the most.