TOM CREAN FIRED

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,294]

Do these kids who bust their butts all summer not deserve the best coaching possible? 

Now this is a great point.

The comments about rooting for us to lose is mean the the kids. Not necessarily.

That is only short term in these fans minds.

They all expect a new coach to put these SAME KIDS in a better position to succeed.

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[WayneFleekHoosier 48,294]

I'm in the camp where i don't root for us to lose ever. But i don't get mad anymore at the L's because I have hope that the L's will lead to necessary changes.

Plus my nervous excitement for games is gone because whichever happens I'm content with.

It's a terrible place to be. But gamedays are easier.


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[VO5 8,272]

3 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Now this is a great point.

The comments about rooting for us to lose is mean the the kids. Not necessarily.

That is only short term in these fans minds.

They all expect a new coach to put these SAME KIDS in a better position to succeed.


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Yup. This is my stance. I love the kids, but the coaching leaves so much to be desired. Rooting for a new coaching staff doesn't make anyone less of a fan. We all want the program to succeed, and telling someone they aren't a fan because they see things different is old and tired. It doesn't hold any water

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

I'm in the camp where i don't root for us to lose ever. But i don't get mad anymore at the L's because I have hope that the L's will lead to necessary changes.

Plus my nervous excitement for games is gone because whichever happens I'm content with.

It's a terrible place to be. But gamedays are easier.


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This is my feeling as well. I'm so ready for the Crean era to be over at IU that L's are just a means to an end. Feel bad for the kids when they're given poor strategies to succeed.

Illinois had a terrible time in bounding the balk against Iowa at home. It reminded me that Crean is only a slightly better in game coach than Groce.

[Hovadipo 55,910]

Enfield is very intriguing.






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You failed to specify Mr. or Mrs.


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[Hoosierfan2017 21,293]

17 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Now this is a great point.

The comments about rooting for us to lose is mean the the kids. Not necessarily.

That is only short term in these fans minds.

They all expect a new coach to put these SAME KIDS in a better position to succeed.


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I don't even know how to feel about games anymore. Do I root for a win knowing that each win is another step towards a Crean extension, or do I root for my favorite team to lose? It's a lose-lose. 

Barring transfers the vast majority of our team will be back next season. I personally see nothing wrong with a little short-term failure to get to long-term success. If Crean stays and these guys stay for 4 years of Crean coaching they're going to be making the same turnovers and committing the same defensive lapses in year 4 that they were in year 1. That would be a much greater disservice to these kids, imo, than 1 bad half of a Big 10 season. 

[Yogi's Picnic Basket 5,004]

Now this is a great point.

The comments about rooting for us to lose is mean the the kids. Not necessarily.

That is only short term in these fans minds.

They all expect a new coach to put these SAME KIDS in a better position to succeed.

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Well said!! I think that is a fair point of deserving the best coaching, but I will not root for them to lose. If it happens it happens.

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[CrossboneIU22 1,193]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

Dude played PG for 4 years at Duke. Was a total defensive stud. Has 15 years of coaching experience directly under the most winning coach in Division 1 basketball history. What you describe you want in a coach is exactly who this guy is so I'm not sure who you think is out there that's got a better resume or knows X's and O's better, but ok.

Lets Examine for a moment:

Dude played PG for 4 years at Duke. Was a total defensive stud. - This doesn't necessarily translate to coaching at all.  Doesn't hurt, but doesn't mean he is or will be a good/great coach.

Has 15 years of coaching experience directly under the most winning coach in Division 1 basketball history. - Crean was an assistant under Izzo.  Point?

What you describe you want in a coach is exactly who this guy is so I'm not sure who you think is out there that's got a better resume or knows X's and O's better, but ok.  - I don't know enough about him to know if he is exactly what I described because he hasn't been a head coach for that long.  There simply isn't the body of work available for him that there are for others.  There are other head coaches with equally or greater success, with a proven track record that I would go after first.  

I would probably put him in the conversation with Norad, Mack but I would put coaches such as Enfield, Holtman, Hoiberg, A Miller, and Collins ahead of him.

Look at what Collins has done at Northwestern.  Taking a B1G school who has never made the NCAA Tourney and should make it this year.  Probably should have made it last year if one or two more things went differently.  At a school where recruiting is harder due to academics requirements.  Collins is inexperienced too so he wouldn't be at the top of my list but would be on the list before Wojo.  

I am not saying Wojo wouldn't be on my list, and maybe I exaggerated how far down I would put him but he would not be at the top of my list and I feel if we have to go past our dream 2 and then our top 5, then this program is in worse shape then we all think.  But, just to erase any doubt, if we did hire him and IF he is what you say he is, I would not be upset because he would be an upgrade from CTC at the very least.

 

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

I'm in the camp where i don't root for us to lose ever. But i don't get mad anymore at the L's because I have hope that the L's will lead to necessary changes.

Plus my nervous excitement for games is gone because whichever happens I'm content with.

It's a terrible place to be. But gamedays are easier.


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This is spot on my thoughts and yeah it honestly feels worse then when we were winning 6 or 12 games all year. At least then I got excited when we won. Now it's just an apathetic feeling for every game and every outcome.

[Uspshoosier 45,599]

Do these kids who bust their butts all summer not deserve the best coaching possible? 

Do they not deserve to win?


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[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

1 hour ago, mdn82 said:

BTW, Buzz's "decimated" team he left included 4 graduates.  1 left to go pro.  One left before Wojo stepped on campus.  Any players after that left after Wojo came on.  That seems like a normal year no?  It's Marquette.  The type of team Wojo inheritted wasn't great.  Wojo inheritted some good transfers (Luke Fischer and Matt Carlino).  He will be a fine coach.  Just not the one I or most everyone here wants at IU.  Like Alford says, I would take Collins in a heartbeat over Wojo.  Collins at least has bloodlines, learning under K (which doesn't always mean much look at Crean).  It's all a moot point.  Sorry everything is so black and white for you and you can't seem to believe people may not actually agree with everything you say.

How is what you described, along with the fact that the entire recruiting class left, even close to normal? Either way, don't care if you or anyone else agrees. Wojo is on my short list of coaches I would be more than happy to have at IU. He is on everyone's radar except the folks on this board apparently. Didn't think putting him on that list would be so controversial. 

I'm looking for a young coach with a lot of experience (He's 40 and already has 18 years of coaching experience. 15 of those as an assistant under arguably the greatest coach ever), with playing experience, a knowledge of X's and O's, a defensive mentality, and someone who can bring some IQ back to the Indiana program. He fits that mold.

 

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

1 hour ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Just trying to get on your level of ridiculousness in claiming Woj inherited a decimated team. Plus, what an incredible argument to use when defending the lack of success of Crean's replacement, given that argument was Crean's #1 defense early on.


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How is it ridiculous to say a team who lost their starting 5 and had no recruiting class to speak of was decimated? 

Wojo knows the game of basketball. He was a 4 year player at Duke. He was a defensive player of the year his senior year. He knows X's and O's. The comparison is stupid.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

How is it ridiculous to say a team who lost their starting 5 and had no recruiting class to speak of was decimated? 

Wojo knows the game of basketball. He was a 4 year player at Duke. He was a defensive player of the year his senior year. He knows X's and O's. The comparison is stupid.

Sounds like business as usual when a coaching change occurs. What Crean inherited was a decimated program.


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[Hoosierfan2017 21,293]

41 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Do they not deserve to win?


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No. No one deserves to win just because they work hard. I think a few times this year our guys felt like they deserved a win for showing up and they ended up getting embarrassed. You have to go out there and earn a win every game. However, they do deserve a coaching staff that puts them in the best possible position to win and right now they don't have that. 

Look man.. If you want Y, and X happening is the only way that Y happens, you realize that X is necessary. That doesn't mean that you want it to happen, just that you recognize that you won't ever get the end goal if it doesn't. I want Crean fired and replaced with a coach that can make us an elite program again. In order for that to happen, we have to lose some games. I don't want us to lose, but it has to happen if we want a new coach, there's no way around it. If we don't we're stuck being mediocre for the next 15-20 years. 

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

6 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Sounds like business as usual when a coaching change occurs. What Crean inherited was a decimated program.


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Business as usual for a power conference team to lose all 5 of its starters and an entire recruiting class? What exactly are you trying to prove here anyway? The dude is an excellent coach. Do some research on him. He's on everyone's list but people on this board for whatever reason. And I think it's because folks are mis-informed on him. He's brought in better players in 3 years than Archie Miller has in 6. 

[mdn82 25,510]

44 minutes ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

Business as usual for a power conference team to lose all 5 of its starters and an entire recruiting class? What exactly are you trying to prove here anyway? The dude is an excellent coach. Do some research on him. He's on everyone's list but people on this board for whatever reason. And I think it's because folks are mis-informed on him. He's brought in better players in 3 years than Archie Miller has in 6. 

 What do you honestly see that is so appealing at this current time other than him being an assistant coach and playing under Coach K at Duke?  Because that does not make someone a great coach.  I wouldn't want him until he proves he could win as a coach, so I don't think the timing lines up.

[HoosierTrav 7,881]

Holtman over Bennett? I'm not as enamored with him as others, YET.

I'd take Wright, Bennett and probably a couple others before Holtman.


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Agree completely. Let's watch him accomplish something other than a few good regular season wins. We have that already. I do think Holtman is light years ahead of Crean, in terms of in game coaching.

[GloryDays 5,920]

If we are going to go outside of our dream 2 (Donovan and Stevens) then I would like for us to target someone with Indiana and Midwest ties so that there is already an established recruiting connection


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Holtman

[recker222000 1,010]

Holtman

Pat Knight????

Lol.

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[GloryDays 5,920]

Pat Knight????

Lol.

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What ever happened to the baby general?