Indiana v. Wisconsin postgame thread

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

You might be right and his spot is off the bench. I don't think he cares. It would be interesting to see how TW would respond coming off the bench...? He has so much talent; he just needs to play more for the end result and the team and TROY might be off the charts.

 

That might be a good move to get Troy going.  Some players are just better coming off the bench, like Sheehey.  I think it years to come OG will be difficult to keep out of the starting lineup.  One of the things I like about OG and JMor is they appear to be humble, hardworking players that actually care about playing defense.  I think the entire image of "leadership" changes when we have RoJo, TB, OG, and JMor running things.

[Hovadipo 56,025]

So, you believe the better options are to start one guard or keep Rob in playing as if he is an overwhelmed freshman? Disagree. You talk as if RJ is playing better than NZ. Check the stats over the last 3 games. See the attached stats.RJvsNZ_Stats.jpg

Yeah in your stats I see Z doing worse at the main thing he's on the floor for: 3 point shooting. If he isn't hitting 3's, it isn't like he's locking someone down, dishing out assists, or getting rebounds. He's doing basically nothing. I see it as a tough spot and a tough decision to make honestly, but at least Rob can guard someone. Losing Jimmy was SO huge, regardless of how poor he is on defense. We knew coming in we were not deep at guard, so that is going to kill us if Z doesn't start hitting and Rob doesn't stop *hitting (the bed).

[incrediboy 924]

Actually this wasn't our worst game of the 3. TO% was somewhat down. If we played this way at Nebraska and Rutgers we would still be 3-0. Neither of those teams would slow us down like Wisky tried to. That's not their game.

I reiterate I think we would have lost at Rutgers and (more certainly) at Nebraska playing as we did against Wisconsin. I cannot imagine Wisconsin beating Michigan State, Iowa, Purdue or Maryland, even at home (not saying I see Rutgers or Nebraska doing that either). This is just my opinion, but this is NOT a good Wisconsin team, not a team that will make the tournament. Beating them by one is impressive only in that it beats the alternative of losing. I was very disappointed in IU's play. This is a team we should have blown out big-time. Maybe the shadow of Blackmon being out for the season took some wind out of our sails or something, but what we showed in this game was at best mediocrity.

[BlueDevil 8,687]

I reiterate I think we would have lost at Rutgers and (more certainly) at Nebraska playing as we did against Wisconsin. I cannot imagine Wisconsin beating Michigan State, Iowa, Purdue or Maryland, even at home (not saying I see Rutgers or Nebraska doing that either). This is just my opinion, but this is NOT a good Wisconsin team, not a team that will make the tournament. Beating them by one is impressive only in that it beats the alternative of losing. I was very disappointed in IU's play. This is a team we should have blown out big-time. Maybe the shadow of Blackmon being out for the season took some wind out of our sails or something, but what we showed in this game was at best mediocrity.

But in that same sense when is the last time under Crean IU won a game when the offense looked like complete trash.

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

I believe this was a return to the early Bo years at,Wiscy. They do all that is possible to create and ugly game. They have also returned to using the swing offense from the early years.

[LockdownD 2,238]

I believe this was a return to the early Bo years at,Wiscy. They do all that is possible to create and ugly game. They have also returned to using the swing offense from the early years.

I agree with you in that Wisconsin reverted back to the style of play that they have had success in winning. It's like a comfort zone for them. It creates discomfort, impatience, and hopefully frustration to make the opponent play that ugly game tempo. As for Indiana, I'll take an ugly win anytime.

[mdn82 25,510]

I got the feeling from the crowd this was a more satisfying win than any other this year. Not because Wisconsin is good but we found a way to win ugly which we haven't done under Crean. What's the saying around here? If we don't hit shots and allow the other team to control tempo we lose. Don't kid yourself Bo Ryan has been gone for a couple weeks. That's his team and talent has never mattered. We lose that game any other year than 2012-13. We won

[Trish 11,551]

I was at the game. Here were some of my thoughts

 

-Balcony was a bit more full compared to other games. To be fair, the games where the balconies were empty were during dead week for the college kids. 

 

-Fans seem to support Crean. Didn't hear anything bad said nor any Boo's. 

 

-Started off well, then our offense got a little slow.

 

-Played great D i thought. The refs were killing us with the calls. Collin was getting screwed out there. 

 

-Rojo and Troy are missing and we really need to find them before February rolls around. 

 

O.G.... this kid will be special. High IQ for the game, great shot selection, great spacing. Good job to his coaches throughout his life.  

Overall, i was impressed we pulled off the W. Little shocked they didn't call a foul on that last shot wisky had, but we'll take it.

 

ONE LAST NOTE. Coach Crean is taking some plays from the Warriors i see, good for him. This play was ran several times during the game.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUS4vUh4M6I

[Sota Hoosier 450]

I got the feeling from the crowd this was a more satisfying win than any other this year. Not because Wisconsin is good but we found a way to win ugly which we haven't done under Crean. What's the saying around here? If we don't hit shots and allow the other team to control tempo we lose. Don't kid yourself Bo Ryan has been gone for a couple weeks. That's his team and talent has never mattered. We lose that game any other year than 2012-13. We won

 

Exactly. Not a game we usually win but we managed to do it without 3 of our main guys (JBJ/TW/RJ) contributing significantly.

 

I think there is some adjustment time without the spacing JBJ provides as its clear we look a little scrambled on offense without him on the floor.

 

I'd love to see a complete game where the guys that should play well do play well and we easily pull away from inferior opponents. Games like that would serve as huge confidence builders and would provide momentum going into the second half of B1G play, which we'll desperately need to have a chance to contend for the B1G title. On the other hand, if we still keep playing these mediocre/poor games (even if we're winning against less-talented teams) I won't have much confidence going into March.

 

It will definitely be interesting to see how we play @ Wisconsin. It'd be phenomenal to pick up a W and finally turn the page on their dominance of us over the past decade and half. 

[ALASKA HOOSIER 11,264]

I have given ROJO's situation a good minute in thought and i think......Coach has made him take over JBJ's priority for shots, given him new positioning and ROJO is re-learning his new role and is really uncomfortable with it. I believe the plays that CTC has set for the shooter in that role was molded for JBJ. It is my hope that there will be new plays incorporated that play off ROJO's offensive strengths which were different from JBJ's. I haven't had a chance to really analyze the tapes, so this might not really be the deal. Just my thoughts. Anyone?

[USMCHoosier 157]

Yeah in your stats I see Z doing worse at the main thing he's on the floor for: 3 point shooting. If he isn't hitting 3's, it isn't like he's locking someone down, dishing out assists, or getting rebounds. He's doing basically nothing. I see it as a tough spot and a tough decision to make honestly, but at least Rob can guard someone. Losing Jimmy was SO huge, regardless of how poor he is on defense. We knew coming in we were not deep at guard, so that is going to kill us if Z doesn't start hitting and Rob doesn't stop *hitting (the bed).

Let me tell you why I believe you are wrong.

1. Shooters shoot their way out of slumps.

2. RJ is the backup PG, let him do just that. If RJ gets a couple of fouls, who gives Yogi a breather?

 

I would bench RJ and let him observe the game from the bench and let Z shoot his way out of this funk. Yogi will man the point, we don't need 2 PG on the court at the same time. CTC does that but it certainly is not necessary.

[Uspshoosier 45,623]

Let me tell you why I believe you are wrong.
1. Shooters shoot their way out of slumps.
2. RJ is the backup PG, let him do just that. If RJ gets a couple of fouls, who gives Yogi a breather?

I would bench RJ and let him observe the game from the bench and let Z shoot his way out of this funk. Yogi will man the point, we don't need 2 PG on the court at the same time. CTC does that but it certainly is not necessary.

robert was recruited out of high school as a shooting guard,
but like most guards in creans system they have to play both. Watching him last year you could tell he was and is still struggling to adapt to playing the point guard position

[Hovadipo 56,025]

Let me tell you why I believe you are wrong.
1. Shooters shoot their way out of slumps.
2. RJ is the backup PG, let him do just that. If RJ gets a couple of fouls, who gives Yogi a breather?

I would bench RJ and let him observe the game from the bench and let Z shoot his way out of this funk. Yogi will man the point, we don't need 2 PG on the court at the same time. CTC does that but it certainly is not necessary.

RJ isn't the backup PG though...he's a combo guard that will have to handle the ball a little more with Jimmy being out, but Yogi should be playing big enough minutes that we don't need a real backup for him for extended minutes. Let Z shoot out of his slump coming off the bench, and let Rob play actual defense, which is my overall reason why he should start and get more minutes than Z. I don't want Z "guarding" B1G 2 guards for extended/starter minutes, ever. I love him off the bench as a sniper though.

[KingPG21 6,584]

So to the small segment of the fanbase who thought we were better with Rojo than JBJ, what do they think of the start of conference play. It was a really small group, but man, we're going to miss JBJ if Rojo doesn't stop playing like crap. Dude has 6 points on 2-14 shooting, 13 turnovers and 11 assists. This is all while playing Rutgers (worse team in the conference), Nebraska (who a lot of people think is going to be a bottom 3 team in the conference), and Wisconsin (who has their worst team in quite a while, along with a new coach). 

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

So to the small segment of the fanbase who thought we were better with Rojo than JBJ, what do they think of the start of conference play. It was a really small group, but man, we're going to miss JBJ if Rojo doesn't stop playing like crap. Dude has 6 points on 2-14 shooting, 13 turnovers and 11 assists. This is all while playing Rutgers (worse team in the conference), Nebraska (who a lot of people think is going to be a bottom 3 team in the conference), and Wisconsin (who has their worst team in quite a while, along with a new coach).

I would never call anybody out like you have here, but, yes I have felt all along we are better with JBJ in our lineup. But, I also feel Rojo should be in for defensive capability.

[GnarlyTimGarl 1,433]

So to the small segment of the fanbase who thought we were better with Rojo than JBJ, what do they think of the start of conference play. It was a really small group, but man, we're going to miss JBJ if Rojo doesn't stop playing like crap. Dude has 6 points on 2-14 shooting, 13 turnovers and 11 assists. This is all while playing Rutgers (worse team in the conference), Nebraska (who a lot of people think is going to be a bottom 3 team in the conference), and Wisconsin (who has their worst team in quite a while, along with a new coach). 

I didn't really think we'd be better with Johnson instead of Blackmon, but I'll take a stab at it...

 

Johnson is a better defender, straight up. Not saying he's great, but he's a capable defender and isn't looked at as a defensive liability in the way that Blackmon is. While Johnson struggled mightily on offense against Wisconsin, he still played adequate defense. And he caused that tip/steal at the end that pretty much sealed the game for us. A game-winning play. I'm not sure we would have held Wisconsin to 58 points had Blackmon played major minutes in Johnson's stead.

 

That being said, Blackmon is a very good offensive player. Among the Big Ten's best on that side of the ball. Johnson is what I would categorize as a "good" offensive player. He's more than solid (and better than what he's shown in the last three games), but not at the level of Blackmon. Clearly. Don't believe Blackmon has ever had a slump quite the way Johnson has right now. So the argument could definitely be made that we would have scored more points with Blackmon in the lineup. And it's a good argument.

 

Therefore, I'd say it's assumed that we played better D because Johnson is a better defender and held them to 58 points, but only scored 59 ourselves because Johnson isn't the offensive player that Blackmon is. Stating the obvious, I suppose.

 

I guess the question is... does Johnson's defense hold the opponent to less points in a game than what Blackmon would have scored to make up for his (Blackmon's) defensive shortcomings? Therein lies the answer. Personally, I feel we're a better team with Blackmon, but there were certainly occasions in which his defense was a major liability and should have been benched in favor of a better defender, such as Johnson. But we still need both of them to maximize our team's potential. Of course, we can't have that now. Just my two cents.

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

So to the small segment of the fanbase who thought we were better with Rojo than JBJ, what do they think of the start of conference play. It was a really small group, but man, we're going to miss JBJ if Rojo doesn't stop playing like crap. Dude has 6 points on 2-14 shooting, 13 turnovers and 11 assists. This is all while playing Rutgers (worse team in the conference), Nebraska (who a lot of people think is going to be a bottom 3 team in the conference), and Wisconsin (who has their worst team in quite a while, along with a new coach). 

I am not sure if I was part of that segment or not but I can say that to me watching the last 3 IU games has been much more enjoyable.... Yes we still made mistakes and we still played ugly but I found myself in a better mood watching....1 less person to yell at the TV about... Of course I now seem to yell about Yogi a little more (I am no way saying we would be better without Yogi).

 

I agree that we will miss JBJ's offensive contributions but I believe in Rojo, NZ3, OG, & Collin making up that amount amongst them most games and along with Juwan giving up much less than JBJ would on the defensive side every game.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

So to the small segment of the fanbase who thought we were better with Rojo than JBJ, what do they think of the start of conference play. It was a really small group, but man, we're going to miss JBJ if Rojo doesn't stop playing like crap. Dude has 6 points on 2-14 shooting, 13 turnovers and 11 assists. This is all while playing Rutgers (worse team in the conference), Nebraska (who a lot of people think is going to be a bottom 3 team in the conference), and Wisconsin (who has their worst team in quite a while, along with a new coach). 

We're not replacing JBJ with RoJo. He earned a starting spot along side JBJ. With JBJ out, we'll see more minutes from OG, JuWan, and Biefeldt. We're a much better defensive team with them taking JBJ's minutes. Still not sure how badly we will miss his offense as we currently have Troy, RoJo, and Z slumping on offense. We will see!

[VO5 8,272]

We're not replacing JBJ with RoJo. He earned a starting spot along side JBJ. With JBJ out, we'll see more minutes from OG, JuWan, and Biefeldt. We're a much better defensive team with them taking JBJ's minutes. Still not sure how badly we will miss his offense as we currently have Troy, RoJo, and Z slumping on offense. We will see!

this. It was never JBJ or rojo. They started together all last year and most of this season. And I seem to recall JBJ being pretty abysmal in most big games last year, so l looked up the bigger games this year. Wake forest, 1-8, 5 points. UNLV, 5-12, 13 points. Duke, 5-12, 14 points. Notre dame, 3-11, 11 points. So not terrible, but not efficient at all. I'll take D over that kind of offense any day

[VO5 8,272]

Just to expand, on this year alone JBJ had 22 assists to 25 turnovers. Rojo has 50 assists, 32 turnovers. I realize rojo has played 3 more games, but those have been some of his worst turnover wise. I'm sure his A:TO ratio might be better without those 3. I probably seem like a JBJ hater, I'm not. I actually like what he brings when he's focused and hitting shots, but i think people are unfairly putting Rojo up against him