Hoosiers need to grow up

[OliviaPope40]

LOUISVILLE -- Victor Oladipo's message to Indiana University basketball players isn't to simply hunker down and stay inside, avoiding any potential trouble moving forward off the court.

"But you've got to be smart about what you do and realize that everybody's watching when you put on that jersey – everybody," Oladipo said Wednesday. "And if you get in trouble, everybody's going to know."

Now with the Orlando Magic, former IU star Oladipo stopped in Louisville this week to play the Miami Heat in a preseason NBA exhibition at the KFC Yum! Center. After a Wednesday morning shootaround, he fielded more questions about the Hoosiers than his own game.

That's the result of sophomore Emmitt Holt's dismissal in September due to an alcohol-related citation – his second off-the-court incident -- as well as a citation for freshman Thomas Bryant, a first offender who remained with the Hoosiers.

They were just the latest incidents in an offseason that has seen three IU players in all released from the program. Those measures came on the heels of multiple other drug and alcohol-related issues with coach Tom Crean's roster since Oladipo's days in Bloomington.

 

"Those guys got to be men," Oladipo said. "They need to grow up. That's the biggest thing. That's what we did. They have to do the same thing. They've got to realize that there's something way bigger in jeopardy than going out and doing what they're doing."

Oladipo, the second overall pick in the 2013 NBA draft, played three seasons for the Hoosiers, guiding IU back to No. 1 in the nation during his time there. A troubled off-the-court culture didn't exist with Cody Zeller and Jordan Hulls heading up the program alongside the Maryland native.

So did that trio simply make better decisions?

"Yeah, you know what I mean?" he said. "Plain and simple, we realized it's much bigger than ourselves. We had fun. We were college kids and had fun, but we did it the smart way. We didn't do what they were doing, obviously. Some stuff they were doing is just crazy."

Oladipo said it shouldn't be up to Crean, who has received the brunt of the criticism while his team also took an early NCAA exit last season, to monitor players at all hours.

 

 

Instead, the third-year pro gave all credit to Crean and his staff for his development in college. Oladipo came out of high school a three-star prospect but quickly transformed into an All-American deft on defense and explosive on offense.

"I improved drastically," he said Wednesday, and the job isn't done. A Magic starter and key piece to the franchise's turnaround, Oladipo averaged 17.9 points, 4.2 rebounds and 4.1 assists last season. He also poured in double-figure points as a rookie.

"I've gotten better. I feel better," Oladipo said. "Things I need to improve on – just being precise and not making too many mistakes and taking care of the ball, things like that.

"As far as shooting the ball, it's going to go in sometimes and it's not going to go in sometimes. I'm just going to keep shooting with confidence."

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2015/10/07/victor-oladipo-indiana-iu-basketball-hoosiers-orlando-magic-tom-crean-grow-up-emmitt-holt/73525746/

Edited October 7, 2015 by OliviaPope40

[Alford Bailey]

Thanks Vic!

[mdn82]

It's honestly not about how smart he or that team was. They just got it. I love Yogi the player but that class put us backwards.

[recker222000]

It's honestly not about how smart he or that team was. They just got it. I love Yogi the player but that class put us backwards.

That vaunted movement class was a fiasco.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[JSHoosier]

That vaunted movement class was a fiasco.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Technically that moniker isn't wrong, they never told us what kind of movement....

[Beowulf50]

Vic is my all time favorite Hoosier! He got it from day one. Actually Vic got it before he got here! Saw him at the Derby Fest Classic and was very impressed with him.

[hoosierwhodey]

I knew he got "it" since I met him for the first time. My wife and I made a 2 hour drive to Btown one Saturday to spend the day on campus and check out the newly opened Cook Hall. I was disappointed to get there to find the doors locked. We walked around for a few minutes with our 18 month old son. We were about to give up when Vic came out of a side door and saw us. He came right over to us to talk to my son. He asked what we were up to and we told him about coming to see Cook Hall. He swiped us in with his card and signed a ball for the kid. Great guy!

[Stuhoo]

Charles Barkley was almost right:

 

Athletes are not role models...unless the athlete is Victor Oladipo.

[Old Friend]

Getting the right kids is more important than getting great athletes. Getting leaders is even more important.  Vic is and was a leader.  Yogi is not.   I think he believes he is, and I believe he sometimes tries; but you can't force it, and you have to lead by example.  He's just not done that very well...he's been in some trouble and his game is selfish sometimes.  He's the best we've got; but he's nowhere near Oladipo's level.

 

I've said it for years, with both positive and negative feedback; but culture is so critical; and it's where Tom Crean has failed.  I've probably beat the dead horse of recruiting focus to death; but I still believe a local focus on kids who understand what Indiana basketball is will pay far greater dividends than looking for kids like Oladipo.  Too often we end up with Stanford Robinson or Emmitt Holt.   Kids who couldn't care less where they go to school, and have no regard for the tradition or expectations of Indiana basketball players.  I'd love it if we went outside the area and only got kids like Oladipo.  Nobody would be happier.  But, the reality is, even kids from around here sometimes don't get it (see : Jeremy Hollowell); so the focus from the coaches needs to be laser-fine.  

 

I, for one, don't believe Tom Crean has that in him because I don't think - despite what he said at his opening press conference - he truly understands the fishbowl and expectations that are "Indiana Basketball."  I have not one time heard him talk about prioritizing winning the Big Ten; and all of a sudden "making the NCAA tournament" is somehow viewed as a high accomplishment.  Good grief, even when people were b*tching that the game had passed Bob Knight by, he still made the NCAA every year.   This program has lowered the bar in many ways, and I really thought Crean was hired to re-raise it.

 

Get kids who understand where they are and can play under those expectations; focus on winning the Big Ten, and everything else will take care of itself.  The formula's been there for 45 years.  Mike Davis ignored it; Crean's not embracing it....and here we are.  

[Kepner]

Getting the right kids is more important than getting great athletes. Getting leaders is even more important.  Vic is and was a leader.  Yogi is not.   I think he believes he is, and I believe he sometimes tries; but you can't force it, and you have to lead by example.  He's just not done that very well...he's been in some trouble and his game is selfish sometimes.  He's the best we've got; but he's nowhere near Oladipo's level.

 

I've said it for years, with both positive and negative feedback; but culture is so critical; and it's where Tom Crean has failed.  I've probably beat the dead horse of recruiting focus to death; but I still believe a local focus on kids who understand what Indiana basketball is will pay far greater dividends than looking for kids like Oladipo.  Too often we end up with Stanford Robinson or Emmitt Holt.   Kids who couldn't care less where they go to school, and have no regard for the tradition or expectations of Indiana basketball players.  I'd love it if we went outside the area and only got kids like Oladipo.  Nobody would be happier.  But, the reality is, even kids from around here sometimes don't get it (see : Jeremy Hollowell); so the focus from the coaches needs to be laser-fine.  

 

I, for one, don't believe Tom Crean has that in him because I don't think - despite what he said at his opening press conference - he truly understands the fishbowl and expectations that are "Indiana Basketball."  I have not one time heard him talk about prioritizing winning the Big Ten; and all of a sudden "making the NCAA tournament" is somehow viewed as a high accomplishment.  Good grief, even when people were b*tching that the game had passed Bob Knight by, he still made the NCAA every year.   This program has lowered the bar in many ways, and I really thought Crean was hired to re-raise it.

 

Get kids who understand where they are and can play under those expectations; focus on winning the Big Ten, and everything else will take care of itself.  The formula's been there for 45 years.  Mike Davis ignored it; Crean's not embracing it....and here we are.  

The only problem is for kids now, Indiana has no history or culture for them recently. Indiana has no had success in their lifetime so its hard to argue that point. I think its just kids in general. There have always been Indiana and regional kids who come in and play well or come in and are idiots. Yogi is a local kid and at times doesn't get it. Then we go out and get Grant Gelon, an Indiana kid through and through, and all that people did was complain. I don't think its really an Indiana vs other state issue. Its just an issue with college age kids in general. Im not giving them any excuse but look at all the programs around the nation and it seems like every program has been hit with problems like us. For example MSU currently has two players suspended indefinitely for off the court issues (one of them is an Indiana kid). 
I do agree with you on most of your points through. I think Crean is a good coach but I think the relationship has hit its mark. I don't see it working out too much longer

[MartintheMopMan]

The only problem is for kids now, Indiana has no history or culture for them recently. Indiana has no had success in their lifetime so its hard to argue that point. I think its just kids in general. There have always been Indiana and regional kids who come in and play well or come in and are idiots. Yogi is a local kid and at times doesn't get it. Then we go out and get Grant Gelon, an Indiana kid through and through, and all that people did was complain. I don't think its really an Indiana vs other state issue. Its just an issue with college age kids in general. Im not giving them any excuse but look at all the programs around the nation and it seems like every program has been hit with problems like us. For example MSU currently has two players suspended indefinitely for off the court issues (one of them is an Indiana kid). 
I do agree with you on most of your points through. I think Crean is a good coach but I think the relationship has hit its mark. I don't see it working out too much longer

For support to this, read Grant Gelon's IndyStar interview (hint, his basketball hero played at and coaches at Duke).

 

Also, no teams have won a national championship with a majority midwestern team in nearly 30 years.

[Old Friend]

For support to this, read Grant Gelon's IndyStar interview (hint, his basketball hero played at and coaches at Duke).

 

Also, no teams have won a national championship with a majority midwestern team in nearly 30 years.

Let's set the bar at "final fours" because the ball can bounce funny ways.  I don't think anyone believes, for example, that UConn was really the best team 2 years ago; or that teams like the 1983 NC State team were truly the best.  In a one-game scenario, lots can happen.

 

Let's start with the 2000 Michigan State team that did win it.  11 of their players (of 13) were from Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana.  (That's well inside 30 years) 7 kids on the 2008 Kansas team were midwestern kids.   Then, look at the two Butler teams in 2010 and 2011.  Both national runners up; both almost exclusively midwest kids who played basketball in a very fundamentally sound way, devoid of "and one" style players.  Michigan lost the 2013 final to Louisville with the lion's share of its team from the midwest, and 3 kids from Indiana.   The Louisville team that won it had 7 kids from Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana, or Ohio.   The Wisconsin team that lost the title game a year ago had 15 of its 16 total players from the midwest.  

 

Starting simply in 2012 (we can go farther back if you'd like), the final four teams have been :  

 

2012 :  Kentucky, Louisville, Ohio State, Kansas

2013 :  Louisville, Michigan, Wichita State, Syracuse

2014 :  Kentucky, Wisconsin, Florida, UConn

2015 :  Duke, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Michigan State

 

That's 11 of 16 teams in the last 4 years alone which are absolutely midwestern teams and I promise, without looking all of them up, they have a large percentage of midwestern kids, and I'd say the midwest is pretty well represented among teams that have done very well in high-level college basketball and in the tournament in particular.  Wanna' have the conversation about where kids are from who have won Big Ten championships consistently?  Hint : they ain't from the east coast.

 

Sorry, Martian...I don't agree with your assessment which seems to indicate you don't think a local recruiting focus is important.   You can't win national titles or get to final fours without being in the top 2 or 3 in your conference consistently.  I'd prefer to start there, and let the chips fall.  Sort of like the Colts yapping about multiple Super Bowls, I'd prefer they just focus on winning their division and take one step at a time.

[MartintheMopMan]

Let's set the bar at "final fours" because the ball can bounce funny ways.  I don't think anyone believes, for example, that UConn was really the best team 2 years ago; or that teams like the 1983 NC State team were truly the best.  In a one-game scenario, lots can happen.

 

Let's start with the 2000 Michigan State team that did win it.  11 of their players (of 13) were from Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana.  (That's well inside 30 years) 7 kids on the 2008 Kansas team were midwestern kids.   Then, look at the two Butler teams in 2010 and 2011.  Both national runners up; both almost exclusively midwest kids who played basketball in a very fundamentally sound way, devoid of "and one" style players.  Michigan lost the 2013 final to Louisville with the lion's share of its team from the midwest, and 3 kids from Indiana.   The Louisville team that won it had 7 kids from Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana, or Ohio.   The Wisconsin team that lost the title game a year ago had 15 of its 16 total players from the midwest.  

 

Starting simply in 2012 (we can go farther back if you'd like), the final four teams have been :  

 

2012 :  Kentucky, Louisville, Ohio State, Kansas

2013 :  Louisville, Michigan, Wichita State, Syracuse

2014 :  Kentucky, Wisconsin, Florida, UConn

2015 :  Duke, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Michigan State

 

That's 11 of 16 teams in the last 4 years alone which are absolutely midwestern teams and I promise, without looking all of them up, they have a large percentage of midwestern kids, and I'd say the midwest is pretty well represented among teams that have done very well in high-level college basketball and in the tournament in particular.  Wanna' have the conversation about where kids are from who have won Big Ten championships consistently?  Hint : they ain't from the east coast.

 

Sorry, Martian...I don't agree with your assessment which seems to indicate you don't think a local recruiting focus is important.   You can't win national titles or get to final fours without being in the top 2 or 3 in your conference consistently.  I'd prefer to start there, and let the chips fall.  Sort of like the Colts yapping about multiple Super Bowls, I'd prefer they just focus on winning their division and take one step at a time.

Did you just move the goalposts back half the distance and then argue that you're correct because you were able to satisfy your new line? I'll bet Scobee wishes it worked that way. I mean, if I move the conversation back and say "Well, Final Fours don't make my point but let's look at Sweet Sixteens!" is that still really the same argument? Or "Usain Bolt should run the 1200 meter relay because he's really good at the 40"? 

 

Who cares who believes is the "Best" team? Kentucky was the best team last year, where is their banner? Is this Btown Banners or Btown Moral Victories Because We Were Really The Best Team We Just Lost In The Final Four? Might as well keep Mike Davis then, at least he got there. Though, I guess Crean went there once too and won a conference championship! So, I mean, that means we're good enough right? Indiana's best team was arguably the 1992 Final Four losing team. You think when Cal Cheaney grabbed his seat he was like "well, at least we're better than Duke"?

 

And of course you disagree. Everyone who thinks the only reason we haven't won another championship is because we aren't doing everything exactly the same way Bob Knight does disagrees. But, unfortunately, age and an inability to adapt to a changing system means you're wrong. Sorry. You are never going to see a 100% local team winning the NC. We invented cars and the internet and telephones and figured out whole new ways to evaluate talent. So, no longer is UNLV a perennial loser because they can't find that many players in Nevada, they get to travel the entire country and take whom they want.

 

And I would say it baffles me how many people still can't figure out the world has changed and they're the ones who fell behind, but I have to go make a phone call that will result in a week of leaving messages because old people still think it's more efficient than an email since they've never adapted to the new paradigm.

 

Edit: And wait. You changed the goalposts and then DIDN'T EVEN DO THE LEGWORK??!!?! You based it on the names? Are you actually kidding me? No. Look back at the scholarship rosters, because that is the entire point. You highlighted Kentucky and you know darn well Kentucky is not recruiting locally, so why highlight them as a "midwestern team". If it's good enough to just have the team name be midwestern, then we've already got that covered. Find my post that did the legwork from a few months ago, the last time this argument which is a total waste of everyone's freaking time happened. There were a small handful of rosters that weren't helpfully annotated on wikipedia, and since I'm not retired, I didn't have time to look up every player. Maybe you'll get lucky. Even scholarship numbers are mostly useless (I mean, unless lumps like Jeremiah April are important to a championship), but who has the time to determine what players actually played? I mean, there are other things in all our lives besides this site.

 

Personally, I just don't get how IUPUI isn't rolling in Final Fours. They have almost all Indiana kids and the rest are from the midwest!

[BtownBanner6]

Did you just move the goalposts back half the distance and then argue that you're correct because you were able to satisfy your new line? I'll bet Scobee wishes it worked that way. I mean, if I move the conversation back and say "Well, Final Fours don't make my point but let's look at Sweet Sixteens!" is that still really the same argument? Or "Usain Bolt should run the 1200 meter relay because he's really good at the 40"?

Who cares who believes is the "Best" team? Kentucky was the best team last year, where is their banner? Is this Btown Banners or Btown Moral Victories Because We Were Really The Best Team We Just Lost In The Final Four? Might as well keep Mike Davis then, at least he got there. Though, I guess Crean went there once too and won a conference championship! So, I mean, that means we're good enough right? Indiana's best team was arguably the 1992 Final Four losing team. You think when Cal Cheaney grabbed his seat he was like "well, at least we're better than Duke"?

And of course you disagree. Everyone who thinks the only reason we haven't won another championship is because we aren't doing everything exactly the same way Bob Knight does disagrees. But, unfortunately, age and an inability to adapt to a changing system means you're wrong. Sorry. You are never going to see a 100% local team winning the NC. We invented cars and the internet and telephones and figured out whole new ways to evaluate talent. So, no longer is UNLV a perennial loser because they can't find that many players in Nevada, they get to travel the entire country and take whom they want.

And I would say it baffles me how many people still can't figure out the world has changed and they're the ones who fell behind, but I have to go make a phone call that will result in a week of leaving messages because old people still think it's more efficient than an email since they've never adapted to the new paradigm.

Edit: And wait. You changed the goalposts and then DIDN'T EVEN DO THE LEGWORK??!!?! You based it on the names? Are you actually kidding me? No. Look back at the scholarship rosters, because that is the entire point. You highlighted Kentucky and you know darn well Kentucky is not recruiting locally, so why highlight them as a "midwestern team". If it's good enough to just have the team name be midwestern, then we've already got that covered. Find my post that did the legwork from a few months ago, the last time this argument which is a total waste of everyone's freaking time happened. There were a small handful of rosters that weren't helpfully annotated on wikipedia, and since I'm not retired, I didn't have time to look up every player. Maybe you'll get lucky. Even scholarship numbers are mostly useless (I mean, unless lumps like Jeremiah April are important to a championship), but who has the time to determine what players actually played? I mean, there are other things in all our lives besides this site.

Personally, I just don't get how IUPUI isn't rolling in Final Fours. They have almost all Indiana kids and the rest are from the midwest!

WOW

[JSHoosier]

My stance is the same it's always been, we have one of the top talent hotbeds in the country right in our backyard so it doesn't make sense to me for that to not be the top priority.  Very few programs have that same luxury.  No one construe what I'm saying; I'm not saying recruit solely IN/Midwest, but due to our proximity it should absolutely be the top priority.

 

UNLV has no other option but to recruit on a more national level because they won't get much from their area.  UK is in much the same boat, they have to travel a ways just to get to Indy if they relied on what was local they'd be completely and utterly screwed.

[BtownBanner6]

Is Brunk the 2nd best recruit from Indiana?

[Hovadipo]

Is Brunk the 2nd best recruit from Indiana?

If he is, the hotbed is chilly this year.

[Josh]

Getting the right kids is more important than getting great athletes. Getting leaders is even more important.  Vic is and was a leader.  Yogi is not.   I think he believes he is, and I believe he sometimes tries; but you can't force it, and you have to lead by example.  He's just not done that very well...he's been in some trouble and his game is selfish sometimes.  He's the best we've got; but he's nowhere near Oladipo's level.

 

I've said it for years, with both positive and negative feedback; but culture is so critical; and it's where Tom Crean has failed.  I've probably beat the dead horse of recruiting focus to death; but I still believe a local focus on kids who understand what Indiana basketball is will pay far greater dividends than looking for kids like Oladipo.  Too often we end up with Stanford Robinson or Emmitt Holt.   Kids who couldn't care less where they go to school, and have no regard for the tradition or expectations of Indiana basketball players.  I'd love it if we went outside the area and only got kids like Oladipo.  Nobody would be happier.  But, the reality is, even kids from around here sometimes don't get it (see : Jeremy Hollowell); so the focus from the coaches needs to be laser-fine.  

 

I, for one, don't believe Tom Crean has that in him because I don't think - despite what he said at his opening press conference - he truly understands the fishbowl and expectations that are "Indiana Basketball."  I have not one time heard him talk about prioritizing winning the Big Ten; and all of a sudden "making the NCAA tournament" is somehow viewed as a high accomplishment.  Good grief, even when people were b*tching that the game had passed Bob Knight by, he still made the NCAA every year.   This program has lowered the bar in many ways, and I really thought Crean was hired to re-raise it.

 

Get kids who understand where they are and can play under those expectations; focus on winning the Big Ten, and everything else will take care of itself.  The formula's been there for 45 years.  Mike Davis ignored it; Crean's not embracing it....and here we are.  

This is amazing.  First you start out saying Yogi isn't a leader, then you say Crean needs local kids who get it.  Yogi is the absolute definition of a local kid.

 

Then you use the examples of Stanford Robinson and Emmit Holt as problem kids from out of state...yet ignore Jeremy Hollowell and Yogi Ferrell (even Jaquan Lyle) as local kids who don't get it.

 

Your argument holds absolutely no water when you look at the whole picture instead of focusing on samples that suit your argument.

[MartintheMopMan]

My stance is the same it's always been, we have one of the top talent hotbeds in the country right in our backyard so it doesn't make sense to me for that to not be the top priority.  Very few programs have that same luxury.  No one construe what I'm saying; I'm not saying recruit solely IN/Midwest, but due to our proximity it should absolutely be the top priority.

 

UNLV has no other option but to recruit on a more national level because they won't get much from their area.  UK is in much the same boat, they have to travel a ways just to get to Indy if they relied on what was local they'd be completely and utterly screwed.

I say recruit where you're going to be able to sign good recruits. If you think Swanigan is a real possibility, then focus your energy there, but if he's not then you go to upstate New York and recruit Bryant. Don't pour resources into a guy who doesn't want to come here just because of where he happened to be born.

 

And going with this, don't expect someone to want to come here just because they happen to be from the area.

[BtownBanner6]

If he is, the hotbed is chilly this year.

That's kind of what I was getting at. I thought Brunk was ranked number 2 so if he is not sure i want a lot of Indiana kids this class.