(2016) SG Grant Gelon commits to IU

[MikeRoberts]

Old Friend, I know you really like this signing and I really hope it works out. But let's be honest about things...defenses aren't "almost solely" focusing on taking him away. They're denying ball from what I've heard. One guy, denying ball. No one is adjusting zones his way. He can't create his own shot. He can't get himself open off the ball. It takes a team playing a zone or playing him straight up m2m for him to get his 3's.

Now, I will agree he could possibly have a role. I'm just not sure he is quite the shooter Matt Roth was. And my main questions lie on the other end of the floor. But I'll give you that if he has talent around him where defenses need to focus elsewhere and he can sit at the three point line getting open shot, he will hit them.

I've really been trying to keep my mouth shut here.

i haven't watched him and sounds like others have but it has worried me that his best skill is his shooting and he has had games with 0 and 1 made shots in high school against average teams. If he was known as a lockdown defender and rebounder/shot blocker I wouldn't be so concerned but he does none of those things well from what I hear.

Did I make this up or did you allude to him perhaps never making it to IU? Too lazy to look for your comments on him but thought there was a reference like that made

[KingPG21]

So some have mentioned other teams game planning on denying him the ball. My thing is at the high school level with guys who are probably going to be closer high school level athletes he still isn't doing much. Part of it should be considered due to the lack of adjustments by the coach, but the fact that he still isn't able to create his own shot at that level is a huge red flag. He is going to be facing better competition and better coaching on a nightly basis in the B1G. I'm extremely low on this signing, so maybe I'm just wrong, but I just don't really see him making a significant contribution until maybe late his junior year, and probably closer to his senior year. Hopefully I'm wrong. 

[323SGrant]

I saw him on tv last summer and he was one dimensional. A good standstill shooter and not so good defensively to put it mildly. I hope things work out for him at IU. Need to have major talent around him.

[Old Friend]

Old Friend, I know you really like this signing and I really hope it works out. But let's be honest about things...defenses aren't "almost solely" focusing on taking him away. They're denying ball from what I've heard. One guy, denying ball. No one is adjusting zones his way. He can't create his own shot. He can't get himself open off the ball. It takes a team playing a zone or playing him straight up m2m for him to get his 3's. 

 

Now, I will agree he could possibly have a role. I'm just not sure he is quite the shooter Matt Roth was. And my main questions lie on the other end of the floor. But I'll give you that if he has talent around him where defenses need to focus elsewhere and he can sit at the three point line getting open shot, he will hit them.

 

I've really been trying to keep my mouth shut here.

I'm not sure I "really like" the signing as much as I'm not worried about his high school stats and see him as a 4-5 year player.   So many people are worried about what he's doing as a 17 year old kid and thinking what happens now is indicative of what he'll do in college, and seeming want him to come in and contribute significantly from day 1.  That's not who he is.  It's never been who he is, and the panic when he has a bad game just confirms how impatient and short sighted some fans are.  I'm not trying to belittle anyone here, but - for example - Brian Evans had a couple of bad games his senior year (I saw him score 5 points in a game that season, 3 on free throws), and became Big Ten POY as a senior at Indiana.   But...his first year or two, he didn't do a lot.  

 

I'm not saying Gelon is going to do that, but I've also seen - for another example - Jaren Jackson, Jr. - a 6'9" junior at Park Tudor who every top D1 school is after - completely taken away by much smaller teams because he had guys around him constantly.  Doesn't matter how good he is if he's got 2-3 guys around him all the time. If Gelon has nobody setting screens to get him open, right now, he's not going to get his own shots on that team because other guys are better with the ball than he is.

 

Gelon was - according to a ton of people here - a bad signing...not someone we needed.  Maybe that'll end up being true, but his performance over the summer in more wide open games when he wasn't the focus shot him up the rankings, and as I said, this is not a kid who will or needs to contribute right away.  Not every kid HAS to be.  People are judging him now based on statistics that are in no way indicative of his skill set.  No college team will ever game plan to take away Grant Gelon.  And if he ends up being Chuck Franz, so be it.  He was never brought in to be a big numbers kid or an immediate impact player.  He may have leadership skills we need.  He may be nothing more than a shooter who we need to spread the floor.  Maybe he plays AAU ball with other kids we want?   You never know with kids like this, and I've never said he's a great player.  Nor did I say he is a main piece.   Patience is needed....not every kid will come in here and dominate immediately or even reach his potential immediately.

[hoosierpap]

I'm not sure I "really like" the signing as much as I'm not worried about his high school stats and see him as a 4-5 year player. So many people are worried about what he's doing as a 17 year old kid and thinking what happens now is indicative of what he'll do in college, and seeming want him to come in and contribute significantly from day 1. That's not who he is. It's never been who he is, and the panic when he has a bad game just confirms how impatient and short sighted some fans are. I'm not trying to belittle anyone here, but - for example - Brian Evans had a couple of bad games his senior year (I saw him score 5 points in a game that season, 3 on free throws), and became Big Ten POY as a senior at Indiana. But...his first year or two, he didn't do a lot.

I'm not saying Gelon is going to do that, but I've also seen - for another example - Jaren Jackson, Jr. - a 6'9" junior at Park Tudor who every top D1 school is after - completely taken away by much smaller teams because he had guys around him constantly. Doesn't matter how good he is if he's got 2-3 guys around him all the time. If Gelon has nobody setting screens to get him open, right now, he's not going to get his own shots on that team because other guys are better with the ball than he is.

Gelon was - according to a ton of people here - a bad signing...not someone we needed. Maybe that'll end up being true, but his performance over the summer in more wide open games when he wasn't the focus shot him up the rankings, and as I said, this is not a kid who will or needs to contribute right away. Not every kid HAS to be. People are judging him now based on statistics that are in no way indicative of his skill set. No college team will ever game plan to take away Grant Gelon. And if he ends up being Chuck Franz, so be it. He was never brought in to be a big numbers kid or an immediate impact player. He may have leadership skills we need. He may be nothing more than a shooter who we need to spread the floor. Maybe he plays AAU ball with other kids we want? You never know with kids like this, and I've never said he's a great player. Nor did I say he is a main piece. Patience is needed....not every kid will come in here and dominate immediately or even reach his potential immediately.

I can respect that. I didn't say anything about his stats though, I more made comments on his skill set.

I have concerns about his skill set and how it projects to the next level. I have concerns about his development trajectory. I have concerns about his defense. I have concerns about what happens if he doesn't make it at IU and how that affects Creans relationships with a rather fickle group of in state coaches. You don't share those concerns and that's fine. Reasonable minds can disagree.

[Stuhoo]

He's just not a kid who's ever going to go get his own points when a defense focuses almost solely on taking him away.  Just not the kind of player he is.  In that role, he's not going to succeed.  In a role where he can space the floor and simply be a shooter, he'll be fine.  He's not a great ball handler like Hulls or Yogi.  He's Todd Leary.  He's Matt Roth.  

 

Teams focus on taking him away much of the time, and when that happens, Gelon is not going to be at his best.   Give him a year or two in college to develop strength and some additional maturity with his body, and I'd bet he'll be a decent piece.  I'm not sure I'd worry about his stats this season because he's playing out of his comfort zone and not within his skill set.  He's a recently known commodity which schools focus specifically on limiting.  That will never be the case for him at Indiana.

 

Generally, I'm with you; a stand still catch and shoot guy as a 4 year player is a good thing to have. Especially one who has dreamed of being a Hoosier. 

 

However, catch and shoot guy Matt Roth averaged 22 ppg senior year in high school, and Todd Leary averaged more than that.

They were athletic enough to be reasonable defensively, and athletic enough to move within the offense to enable open catch-n-shoots.

 

I hope Gelon can be that guy, but lately it's looking like he may have trouble doing so.

[8bucks]

Have we had a guy at IU while Crean was coach who did not play much his first few years become a key contributor for years 3 or 4? Roth is the closest I could think of and yet he had some good games early on I thought.

I like the idea of taking a Indiana kid who can be a very good shooter in his later years but that does not seem to fit how Crean builds teams. So for that reason when I see really down games from him I have concerns he will be able to stay long enough to have an impact

[Stuhoo]

Have we had a guy at IU who did not play much his first few years become a key contributor for years 3 or 4? Roth is the closest I could think of and yet he had some good games early on I thought.

I like the idea of taking a Indiana kid who can be a very good shooter in his later years but that does not seem to fit how Crean builds teams. So for that reason when I see really down games from him I have concerns he will be able to stay long enough to have an impact

 

I'm sure we have. 

 

Purely by memory off the cuff, I don't think Odle or Hornsby got much run early on. Eyl and Leary also. I think Nover and Jadlow's minutes increased substantially, and could've predicted that MSB would average 18 and 8 by his senior year!   :D

[8bucks]

I'm sure we have.

Purely by memory off the cuff, I don't think Odle or Hornsby got much run early on. Eyl and Leary also. I think Nover and Jadlow's minutes increased substantially, and could've predicted that MSB would average 18 and 8 by his senior year! :D

Edited my post. I know historically we have had some. Coverdale was one big one but I meant under Crean.

I just don't think this is something we have done under Crean and thus it creates some of the doubt. I would love to see this young man, who wants to play at IU have that chance to develop from the end of the bench to a solid rotation guy but I am struggling to find anyone who has done that under Crean.

[Old Friend]

I can respect that. I didn't say anything about his stats though, I more made comments on his skill set.

I have concerns about his skill set and how it projects to the next level. I have concerns about his development trajectory. I have concerns about his defense. I have concerns about what happens if he doesn't make it at IU and how that affects Creans relationships with a rather fickle group of in state coaches. You don't share those concerns and that's fine. Reasonable minds can disagree.

Crean's relationships with in state coaches is already awful.  I'm not the only one who doesn't like his focus on east coast kids.   Hollowell didn't make it at Indiana.  Remy Abell didn't (from just across the river).  Devin Davis didn't.  Gelon wouldn't be the first.  Crean wears people out, he talks about himself a lot, he uses Dwayne Wade every chance he can, and high school coaches know he's a churn and burn guy who doesn't necessarily want 4 year players.  Gelon was a surprise to me because there's no way he's a "help right now" kid, which showed me (or at least I wanted it to show me) Crean might be changing his ways a bit; but Gelon will not do much if any more damage with local coaches than has already been done.

[ccgeneral]

Crean's relationships with in state coaches is already awful.  I'm not the only one who doesn't like his focus on east coast kids.   Hollowell didn't make it at Indiana.  Remy Abell didn't (from just across the river).  Devin Davis didn't.  Gelon wouldn't be the first.  Crean wears people out, he talks about himself a lot, he uses Dwayne Wade every chance he can, and high school coaches know he's a churn and burn guy who doesn't necessarily want 4 year players.  Gelon was a surprise to me because there's no way he's a "help right now" kid, which showed me (or at least I wanted it to show me) Crean might be changing his ways a bit; but Gelon will not do much if any more damage with local coaches than has already been done.

Just curious GC, why do you ALWAYS leave your boy Buss out?

[Old Friend]

Just curious GC, why do you ALWAYS leave your boy Buss out?

Not intentional...forgot about him.  Loved him as a high school guard...but when a kid decided grades aren't important, and drugs are; and since he never dressed as a Hoosier, I don't count him and that argument is dead to me.  I don't count him as a kid who never made it.  He was essentially forced out because of his grades, and told we didn't want him even when he became eligible.

[DChoosier]

Not intentional...forgot about him.  Loved him as a high school guard...but when a kid decided grades aren't important, and drugs are; and since he never dressed as a Hoosier, I don't count him and that argument is dead to me.  I don't count him as a kid who never made it.  He was essentially forced out because of his grades, and told we didn't want him even when he became eligible.

We should not have kept him after he became eligible because he cheated. Once he left he went on to score less than three points a game at Syracuse, shot under 40% and transferred to IUPUI. No one can perfectly see into the future but you were pretty vocal about him being the best of the "movement" players.

[Old Friend]

We should not have kept him after he became eligible because he cheated. Once he left he went on to score less than three points a game at Syracuse, shot under 40% and transferred to IUPUI. No one can perfectly see into the future but you were pretty vocal about him being the best of the "movement" players.

I'm not convinced he wouldn't have been.  He was a bad fit a Syracuse.  That was a horrible choice for him.  It's not like Perea, Jurkin, or Hollowell did anything.  We'll never know what he would have done at Indiana, and I have no idea why anyone would have a need to bring up something 4 years old except to take a cheap shot.

 

Remy Abell does nothing at Indiana, but goes to Xavier and has a ton of success.  "Fit" matters.  Style matters.  Patterson may or may not have succeeded at IU, but what he did at Syracuse has absolutely no bearing on what he would have done at Indiana.  

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I'm not convinced he wouldn't have been. He was a bad fit a Syracuse. That was a horrible choice for him. It's not like Perea, Jurkin, or Hollowell did anything. We'll never know what he would have done at Indiana, and I have no idea why anyone would have a need to bring up something 4 years old except to take a cheap shot.

Remy Abell does nothing at Indiana, but goes to Xavier and has a ton of success. "Fit" matters. Style matters. Patterson may or may not have succeeded at IU, but what he did at Syracuse has absolutely no bearing on what he would have done at Indiana.

Abell was virtually the same player for us as he has been at Xavier. Less minutes though. He is no world beater at X. Solid player, does a little of everything. He was the same complimentary piece for us.

[hoosierpap]

Crean's relationships with in state coaches is already awful.  I'm not the only one who doesn't like his focus on east coast kids.   Hollowell didn't make it at Indiana.  Remy Abell didn't (from just across the river).  Devin Davis didn't.  Gelon wouldn't be the first.  Crean wears people out, he talks about himself a lot, he uses Dwayne Wade every chance he can, and high school coaches know he's a churn and burn guy who doesn't necessarily want 4 year players.  Gelon was a surprise to me because there's no way he's a "help right now" kid, which showed me (or at least I wanted it to show me) Crean might be changing his ways a bit; but Gelon will not do much if any more damage with local coaches than has already been done.

Not all HS coaches in the state of Indiana dislike Crean. There are plenty more enemies to be made and there is a ton of talent in the next three classes is my point.

[Stuhoo]

Not all HS coaches in the state of Indiana dislike Crean. There are plenty more enemies to be made and there is a ton of talent in the next three classes is my point.

 

Lol

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

On 2/6, East Chicago Central defeated Crown Point 80 - 73.  In the newspaper account I found, 4 Crown Point players are named as double figure scorers; Gelon was not 1 of the 4.

 

Been a lot of conversation on Gelon so I've gone back and tried to reconstruct his 2015-2016 season as best I could.

 

1. 11/25/15  vs. Laf. Jeff                        No stats found

 

1. 12/15 vs. Penn                                     31 pts.    11 of 16 from the field; 9 of 11 were 3's;       5 reb

 

1. 12/12 vs. Warren Central                   2 pts.      Intentional elbow game

 

1. 12/18 vs. Munster                               15 pts.    6-for-11, including 5-for-8 on 3’s

 

1. 12/19 vs. Pike                                       No stats found

 

1. 12/29 vs. Avon                                    21 pts.    7 of 9 on 3’s

 

1. 1/2/16 vs. So. Bend. Wash.               24pts.     7-3’s; 9 reb.

 

1. 12/30 vs. Columbus East                   28 pts.

 

1. 1/8 vs. Michigan City                         11 pts.    15 reb.; only 2 of 12 on 3’s

               

1. 1/15 vs. Merrillville                              Scoreless

 

1. 1/16 vs. Griffith                                   16 pts.    4 of 11 on 3’s

 

1. 1/22 vs. Chesterton                             15 pts.    7 reb.

 

1. 1/23 vs. Bowman Academy             24 pts.    4 of 6 on 3’s

 

1. 1/29 vs. LaPorte                                  10 pts.    5 reb.

 

1. 1/30 vs. Boone Grove                         No stats found

 

1. 2/4 vs. Portage                                     3 pts.     

 

1. 2/6 vs. East Chicago Central             Unknown, but clearly less than 10.          

[DChoosier]

I'm not convinced he wouldn't have been.  He was a bad fit a Syracuse.  That was a horrible choice for him.  It's not like Perea, Jurkin, or Hollowell did anything.  We'll never know what he would have done at Indiana, and I have no idea why anyone would have a need to bring up something 4 years old except to take a cheap shot.
 
Remy Abell does nothing at Indiana, but goes to Xavier and has a ton of success.  "Fit" matters.  Style matters.  Patterson may or may not have succeeded at IU, but what he did at Syracuse has absolutely no bearing on what he would have done at Indiana.

"Absolutely no bearing"...come on, I agree with "fit" on a team but if he was a player he would have done well at the cuse, IU or any other power conference school.
Also not sure why, but not surprised, you responded by calling this a "cheap shot".

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

On 2/9, Crown Point defeated Gary Andrean ( 71 - 51).

 

CROWN POINT — Grant Gelon was working his way out of a shooting slump.

He took more time in practice to shoot, and tried to work out of the "wacky" feeling.

Though the Crown Point senior missed his first two shots against Andrean on Tuesday, he knew the old magic was back.

Gelon scored a game-best 25, including six 3s, in the Bulldogs' 71-51 win over the Niners (6-11).

"Though I missed those first two, they felt right on," Gelon said. "I just kept shooting, knowing things would go my way a little. I'm a shooter, I have to keep shooting."

Gelon hit five of his 3s in the first half, four in the second quarter, as Times No. 5 Crown Point built a 40-19 halftime lead.

"Grant was the difference-maker for us tonight," C.P. coach Clint Swan said. "He allows us to mix it up and with him hitting from the outside, we're able to attack the basket inside."